Toyota announces lineup of 30 full EVs by 2030; Lexus will be all-electric brand

[Harley Lover]

When you have deep pockets, you can make things happen:

Quote

Toyota Motor Corp. on Tuesday committed $70 billion to electrify its lineup by 2030. The world's biggest automaker, said it expected annual sales of full-electric cars to reach 3.5 million vehicles by the end of the decade, or around a third of its current vehicle sales. 

Speaking at a news briefing in Tokyo on Tuesday surrounded by more than a dozen planned full-electric models, Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda said his company was still pursuing a multi-pronged, carbon-reduction strategy that also includes hybrid cars and hydrogen-powered vehicles.

We want to leave all people with a choice, and rather than where or what we will focus on, we will wait a little longer until we understand where the market is going," Toyoda said.

 

The investment above does not include batteries:

Quote

Toyota on Tuesday also said it planned to invest $17.5 billion in battery production by 2030. That investment includes $1.29 billion for a new battery plant in North Carolina that will begin production in 2025.

 

Oh, about Lexus:

Quote

Toyoda on Tuesday showed 15 concepts for upcoming Toyota and Lexus full-electric cars including sedans, SUVs, a small crossover designed for Europe and Japan, a pickup and a Lexus LFA-inspired supercar. He said Lexus aims to have a full lineup of battery EVs in all vehicle segments by 2030 and for battery EVs to make up 100 percent of its global vehicles sales in 2035 in Europe, North America, and China -- totalling 1 million units globally.

 

https://www.autonews.com/automakers-suppliers/toyota-will-have-lineup-30-full-evs-2030-lexus-will-be-all-electric-brand?utm_source=breaking-news&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20211214&utm_content=hero-headline

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Harley Lover

[twintornados]

Sounds a little milquetoast to me...

[rperez817]

4 hours ago, twintornados said:

Sounds a little milquetoast to me...

 

Yes sir twintornados. Not just the BEV concept cars shown today, but also Akio Toyoda's strategy of continuing down the hybrid and hydrogen fuel (fool) cell paths and of not committing to phase out fossil fuel powered vehicles by 2040.

Edited December 14, 2021 by rperez817

[DeluxeStang]

I almost never say this, but good job Toyota/Lexus designers.

[rmc523]

Those look better than anything Toyota currently makes, though that wasn't a high bar to cross.  I fully expect them to be "uglified" for production lol.

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

Those look better than anything Toyota currently makes, though that wasn't a high bar to cross.  I fully expect them to be "uglified" for production lol.

Yeah, the issue with their designs is they never know when to stop. Most of these strike a decent balance between uniqueness, and being relatively clean. Which is a hard design tightrope to walk for sure. I'm worried some designer last minute is gonna throw some awkward grilles, or 5 more character lines on these designs and balls it up. But I'll try to be hopeful. At least these concepts are better than those horrific Honda concepts shown a little bit ago that look like cybertrucks in sedan and crossover form. Those we're truly horrendous, yet people were still praising those designs lol.

[bzcat]

Deep pockets makes a difference. Toyota was last place amongst the major car companies when it comes to EV. But they've now signaled they are not going to let VW or Hyundai steal the show.

 

Farley can only wish Ford can fund 30 EV development program at the same time. 

[rperez817]

26 minutes ago, bzcat said:

Toyota was last place amongst the major car companies when it comes to EV. But they've now signaled they are not going to let VW or Hyundai steal the show.

 

But Toyota still hasn't signaled that they are taking the competitive threat of Tesla and BEV only startups seriously. Or even that they understand that the automotive industry's future is 100% electric vehicles.

[T-dubz]

I’m actually really liking the electric Tacoma. Get rid of the plastic in the grille and I’m guessing this is what the next Tacoma will look like.

[Harley Lover]

10 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

But Toyota still hasn't signaled that they are taking the competitive threat of Tesla and BEV only startups seriously. Or even that they understand that the automotive industry's future is 100% electric vehicles.

 

Spending $70 billion is sufficient indication that Toyota is in the game. Spending another $17.5 billion on battery plants alone trumps what Tesla or any BEV start up is doing. Toyota is further along in its research on solid state batteries than Tesla. It is not the Japanese way to bleat out GM-like PR announcements every other day - their actions speak for them. You, nor anyone else, knows the future of the auto industry is 100% electric vehicles. Please calm down with the hype.

[twintornados]

2 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 You, nor anyone else, knows the future of the auto industry is 100% electric vehicles. Please calm down with the hype.

 

It will be 100% different that it is now, Toyota is sitting on the fence for both technologies and it produces a "middle of the road" result that others are driving by right now. I have long said that solid-state battery tech will be the game changer in the BEV race.

 

However, with that said, Toyota's hydrogen tech may come into play as a clean way to fuel charging stations both at home and on the road that won't overload the electric grid. These are the most interesting times in the automotive industry. 

 

https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/new-hydrogen-fuel-cell-powered-fast-chargers/

Edited December 15, 2021 by twintornados

[twintornados]

https://www.power-and-beyond.com/new-partnership-looks-to-develop-hydrogen-powered-ev-charging-stations-a-1045014/

 

The beauty of this set up is that it provides the fast charge capability needed without overloading the electric grid....

 

Quote

Utilizing Loop Energy’s fuel cell technology, GreenCore will create hydrogen-powered direct current (DC) fast-charging stations. These, according to GreenCore, will be independent from the power grid, cost-effective, quick to deploy, and have a negligible environmental impact. The stations will be capable of storing compressed hydrogen for conversion into electricity when required. This will be provided by BayoTech, an energy solutions company addressing the need for a consistent and cost-effective supply of hydrogen.

 

[rperez817]

9 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

You, nor anyone else, knows the future of the auto industry is 100% electric vehicles. Please calm down with the hype.

 

100% electric vehicle future is not a prediction, nor is it hype. It's what the combination of government regulations, capital markets, and consumer focus on sustainability is dictating right now.

 

Akio Toyoda's comment "we will wait a little longer until we understand where the market is going" suggests that Toyota is still dragging its feet.

[CKNSLS]

20 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

But Toyota still hasn't signaled that they are taking the competitive threat of Tesla and BEV only startups seriously. Or even that they understand that the automotive industry's future is 100% electric vehicles.

 

Underestimating Toyota is very foolish.   They are hedging their bets not doing away with ICE vehicles. There is nothing wrong with that.  There are many who will never buy a BEV-unless their costs go through the roof-or the fuel that powers them does. And $5.00/gallon isn't the ceiling either on the later. 

[rperez817]

32 minutes ago, CKNSLS said:

Underestimating Toyota is very foolish. 

 

This isn't a matter of underestimating Toyota but acknowledging that Toyota is shooting itself in the foot with its refusal to go "all in" with BEV. Toyota's continued pursuit of FCEV and hybrids is a competitive disadvantage. bzcat explained on this forum how the physics and chemistry of producing hydrogen fuel for FCEV make it a fool's bet. As for hybrids, several markets already have regulations that will ban the sale of new cars and trucks that have ICE powertrains, hybrids included.

 

[akirby]

28 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

100% electric vehicle future is not a prediction, nor is it hype. It's what the combination of government regulations, capital markets, and consumer focus on sustainability is dictating right now..

What’s being dictated is zero emissions, not electric vehicles per se.  I can see development of a clean burning fuel that supports long range driving and rapid refueling either as the sole engine or as a range extender for BEVs.

[CKNSLS]

13 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

This isn't a matter of underestimating Toyota but acknowledging that Toyota is shooting itself in the foot with its refusal to go "all in" with BEV. Toyota's continued pursuit of FCEV and hybrids is a competitive disadvantage. bzcat explained on this forum how the physics and chemistry of producing hydrogen fuel for FCEV make it a fool's bet. As for hybrids, several markets already have regulations that will ban the sale of new cars and trucks that have ICE powertrains, hybrids included.

 

 

They need to have regulations (could be coming) that bar the registration of ICE vehicles to make the ban successful.   If not-those in California (for example) will just buy their cars in Nevada.  The Internet makes it so easy....

[rmc523]

15 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

This isn't a matter of underestimating Toyota but acknowledging that Toyota is shooting itself in the foot with its refusal to go "all in" with BEV. Toyota's continued pursuit of FCEV and hybrids is a competitive disadvantage. bzcat explained on this forum how the physics and chemistry of producing hydrogen fuel for FCEV make it a fool's bet. As for hybrids, several markets already have regulations that will ban the sale of new cars and trucks that have ICE powertrains, hybrids included.

 

 

They committed $70 BILLION.......I'd hardly call that shooting itself in the food or dragging their feet.

[Flying68]

15 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

This isn't a matter of underestimating Toyota but acknowledging that Toyota is shooting itself in the foot with its refusal to go "all in" with BEV. Toyota's continued pursuit of FCEV and hybrids is a competitive disadvantage. bzcat explained on this forum how the physics and chemistry of producing hydrogen fuel for FCEV make it a fool's bet. As for hybrids, several markets already have regulations that will ban the sale of new cars and trucks that have ICE powertrains, hybrids included.

 

Toyota can't go "all in" with BEV.  They supply vehicles to parts of the world that has no infrastructure for BEV's.  You think militia's and terrorist groups have time to charge a Hilux before shooting their guns in the air?  But seriously, there is a good reason that Toyota will be producing gas and diesel powered vehicles for many years to come.

[rperez817]

2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

They committed $70 BILLION.......I'd hardly call that shooting itself in the food or dragging their feet.

 

Only about half that amount is dedicated to BEV starting in 2022, the other $35 billion presumably will go to FCEV and hybrids.

[bzcat]

Toyota is committed to EV. There is no reason to doubt that based on the effort they are putting in to catch up.

 

Toyota's obsession with hydrogen is more or less a reflection of the stubbornness of the Japanese Govt. There is an echo chamber between Toyota and Japanese Govt and they keep sweet talk each other about how hydrogen is going to be the solution to Japan's carbon footprint. But this is not the view of other Japanese car companies that are not in this cozy symbiotic relationship with the Government. And indeed, the rest of the world.

 

Hydrogen will have a role to play in transportation but it will be a limited role where logistic of making hydrogen makes sense (you read that right, hydrogen has to be manufactured... it doesn't exist in natural by itself), and where there is low barrier to transporting or storing compress hydrogen (it tends to go kaboom! easily). So that's the limiting factor.

 

As for Toyota saying it will keep making ICE cars until the demand dries up, that is not any different than other car companies. Some have said 2030 or 2035 and a few said 2040 but everyone is more or less on the same timeline. They all believe demand for ICE will dry up sometime between 2030 and 2040. All signs are pointing to rapid consumer acceptance and adopting of BEV. Plug in cars are already in double digit market shares in several large markets like California, Germany, and China. Demand for high quality BEV are off the charts in almost every market - no car company can make enough EV to meet demands. There is long waiting list for just about every new EV that came to market recently - everyone understood the limitation of older compliance EV and some of them sold poorly. But the new purpose build EVs are hitting very high consumer appeal and acceptance across the board. They are reasonably priced (near median new car price) and have good enough range for practical daily use for most people.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by bzcat

[rperez817]

17 minutes ago, bzcat said:

Toyota is committed to EV. There is no reason to doubt that based on the effort they are putting in to catch up.

 

Toyota's obsession with hydrogen is more or less a reflection of the stubbornness of the Japanese Govt. There is an echo chamber between Toyota and Japanese Govt and they keep sweet talk each other about how hydrogen is going to be the solution to Japan's carbon footprint. But this is not the view of other Japanese car companies that are not in this cozy symbiotic relationship with the Government. And indeed, the rest of the world.

 

If and when Toyota informs the Japanese government that mass produced hydrogen FCEV passenger cars and light trucks won't be a viable solution to reducing that country's carbon footprint, and if and when Toyota sets a time-based goal for the Toyota and Daihatsu brands to have BEV account for 100% of vehicle sales in major markets just like it did for Lexus, then Toyota's commitment can be considered a serious one.

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

Only about half that amount is dedicated to BEV starting in 2022, the other $35 billion presumably will go to FCEV and hybrids.

 

There's no pleasing you lol.

 

 

Nothing short of an eleventy billion trillion dollar investment in BEVs is good enough lol.

[bzcat]

4 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

There's no pleasing you lol.

 

 

Nothing short of an eleventy billion trillion dollar investment in BEVs is good enough lol.

 

The man is a broken record. He may be right but he's stuck on a rut and keeps repeating ?

Edited December 16, 2021 by bzcat

[Harley Lover]

11 hours ago, bzcat said:

Toyota's obsession with hydrogen is more or less a reflection of the stubbornness of the Japanese Govt. There is an echo chamber between Toyota and Japanese Govt and they keep sweet talk each other about how hydrogen is going to be the solution to Japan's carbon footprint. But this is not the view of other Japanese car companies that are not in this cozy symbiotic relationship with the Government.

 

Hyundai/Kia seem to have the same relationship with the Korean government with regard to hydrogen (and the Korean government seems to have the same desire for a hydrogen solution as its Japanese counterpart).