ice-capades Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) On 1/12/2022 at 10:14 AM, FordBuyer said: Mullinax has about 20 Broncos and about all are used as demos to be sold later after some light miles. And I would guess be sold for much higher price than sticker. Expect them to do the same with Lightning. Seems to be the model for mega dealers. Looks like Mullinax does this with the Mach E also. Sounds like Ford Courtesy Transportation Program vehicles that have to be in service for a specific time period and mileage before they can be sold. Dealers are subject to chargebacks and other fines for violating terms of the program. Edited January 14, 2022 by ice-capades typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 16 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Which is weird since Ferrari owners/buyers are traditionally sticklers for NOT putting miles on their cars. the Dealer would register vehicles and pay taxes etc on THEIR aquisation cost and then bump pricing up...the cars were literally never driven.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, ice-capades said: Sounds like Ford Courtesy Transportation Program vehicles that have to be in service for a specific time period and mileage before they can be sold. Dealers subject to chargebacks and other fines for violating terms of the program. Wish I could believe that...we were told with our Mach E mannequins they had to be in-service for 6 months and then 2 months in we were informed they could be sold and subsequently were....I swear...ever since Fauchi became a Ford Employee, the rules change daily.....hes also in charge of release dates and Vin visibility ( too soon?....lol ) Edited January 14, 2022 by Deanh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DillyDally Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I dont understand where the word "ethical" went. Despite the world seemingly collapsing, dealerships are still charging over MSRP. I just find it odd how if you got MSRP you got a "deal" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 3 hours ago, DillyDally said: I dont understand where the word "ethical" went. Despite the world seemingly collapsing, dealerships are still charging over MSRP. I just find it odd how if you got MSRP you got a "deal" Is it unethical to take a big discount or big rebates when supply is far greater than demand? My F150 was over $10K below MSRP. Was that unethical? Can’t have it both ways. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DillyDally Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 57 minutes ago, akirby said: Is it unethical to take a big discount or big rebates when supply is far greater than demand? My F150 was over $10K below MSRP. Was that unethical? Can’t have it both ways. Guess ethical wasnt the right word and you make a fair point. Just seems that one is helping people the other is scalping people, but you do you. If MSRP is the price, you'd think thats the adjusted price for features, inflation, etc. Seems as if dealers are deciding what the prices should be for Ford which is strange. Just my opinion though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 19 minutes ago, DillyDally said: Guess ethical wasnt the right word and you make a fair point. Just seems that one is helping people the other is scalping people, but you do you. If MSRP is the price, you'd think thats the adjusted price for features, inflation, etc. Seems as if dealers are deciding what the prices should be for Ford which is strange. Just my opinion though You can’t scalp or gouge somebody when the purchase is 100% voluntary. It’s not like gasoline or food. Let’s say you’re a dealer who normally sells 100 cars a month and you only get 10. And there are 30 people at your door offering you $10k over MSRP to buy them. You’re telling me you’d turn that down? Now changing the price at the last minute is totally different. Also dealers have always decided what prices are because dealers have almost never sold vehicles at MSRP and I bet you’ve never paid MSRP. Tesla raised their MSRP on some vehicles by $9K. Ford could easily raise MSRP by $5K on Mavericks and people would still buy them. So what’s the difference? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, akirby said: You can’t scalp or gouge somebody when the purchase is 100% voluntary. It’s not like gasoline or food. Let’s say you’re a dealer who normally sells 100 cars a month and you only get 10. And there are 30 people at your door offering you $10k over MSRP to buy them. You’re telling me you’d turn that down? Now changing the price at the last minute is totally different. Also dealers have always decided what prices are because dealers have almost never sold vehicles at MSRP and I bet you’ve never paid MSRP. Tesla raised their MSRP on some vehicles by $9K. Ford could easily raise MSRP by $5K on Mavericks and people would still buy them. So what’s the difference? Those cash incentives do not come out of the dealer’s pockets though, that all comes from Ford and is built into the price. For vehicles that are extremely hard to shift, Ford gives the dealer a one time amount to move the vehicle. While I agree that dealers should be permitted to profit with ADMs, it’s the amount that concerns me, you would hope that most aren’t charging $10k-$20k over MSRP and those that are buying vehicles with big ADMs should know that their financing could be extremely underwater at hand in time…. I looks like demand may be easing as the economy starts nosing over, so maybe ADMs are gone in a month or so or as we expect only on really desirable vehicles for those that must have right now. Edited January 19, 2022 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 34 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Those cash incentives do not come out of the dealer’s pockets though, that all comes from Ford and is built into the price. . But it’s still buying well below MSRP. And the dealer was also discounting off MSRP and selling near invoice in most cases. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, akirby said: But it’s still buying well below MSRP. And the dealer was also discounting off MSRP and selling near invoice in most cases. Can’t argue with that. I can tell you that in ROW markets, the word discount hasn’t existed in Ford vocabulary for quite a while. Edited January 19, 2022 by jpd80 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DillyDally Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 12 hours ago, jpd80 said: Those cash incentives do not come out of the dealer’s pockets though, that all comes from Ford and is built into the price. For vehicles that are extremely hard to shift, Ford gives the dealer a one time amount to move the vehicle. While I agree that dealers should be permitted to profit with ADMs, it’s the amount that concerns me, you would hope that most aren’t charging $10k-$20k over MSRP and those that are buying vehicles with big ADMs should know that their financing could be extremely underwater at hand in time…. I looks like demand may be easing as the economy starts nosing over, so maybe ADMs are gone in a month or so or as we expect only on really desirable vehicles for those that must have right now. All I'm saying if GM CEO is saying this about the corvette, what makes Ford think theyre above ethical selling practices: "Unortunately, it has come to our attention that in connection with some of these announcements and launches, a small number of Dealers have engaged in practices that do not support a positive sales experience for our customers. This puts our collective interests at risk and generates negative press that reflect poorly on GM’s brands and your dealerships. Specifically, it has come to our attention that some dealerships have attempted to demand money above and beyond the reservation amounts set in GM’s program rules and/or have requested customers to pay sums far in excess of MSRP in order to purchase or lease a vehicle. First, I want to remind you that GM dealers are obligated to ethically and lawfully sell GM Products, as stated in Article 5 of the Dealer Sales and Service Agreement: “Dealer agrees to effectively, ethically and lawfully sell and promote the purchase, lease and use of Products by consumers…” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 1 hour ago, DillyDally said: All I'm saying if GM CEO is saying this about the corvette, what makes Ford think theyre above ethical selling practices: "Unortunately, it has come to our attention that in connection with some of these announcements and launches, a small number of Dealers have engaged in practices that do not support a positive sales experience for our customers. This puts our collective interests at risk and generates negative press that reflect poorly on GM’s brands and your dealerships. Specifically, it has come to our attention that some dealerships have attempted to demand money above and beyond the reservation amounts set in GM’s program rules and/or have requested customers to pay sums far in excess of MSRP in order to purchase or lease a vehicle. First, I want to remind you that GM dealers are obligated to ethically and lawfully sell GM Products, as stated in Article 5 of the Dealer Sales and Service Agreement: “Dealer agrees to effectively, ethically and lawfully sell and promote the purchase, lease and use of Products by consumers…” While the GM letter does mention selling vehicles in excess of MSRP it doesn’t actually prohibit it and dealers have been selling corvettes above MSRP for years. What they are actually prohibiting is the same as Ford - charging additional reservation fees or increasing the price after the order is placed. The ADM warning is a bluff. If the customer agrees to pay $20k over MSRP up front and that’s what they are charged then GM has no say and neither does Ford. You may not like it but it’s not illegal, unethical or against the franchise agreement. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 It's not only new vehicles with outlandish ADMs, but even more so used vehicles. Subaru dealer by me is asking $36,000 for a 2020 Crosstrek Premium with 29,000 miles. That is way above sticker when new. Lincoln dealer is asking $56,000 for 2020 Model 3 with 40,000 miles. Crazy prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 22 minutes ago, FordBuyer said: It's not only new vehicles with outlandish ADMs, but even more so used vehicles. Subaru dealer by me is asking $36,000 for a 2020 Crosstrek Premium with 29,000 miles. That is way above sticker when new. Lincoln dealer is asking $56,000 for 2020 Model 3 with 40,000 miles. Crazy prices. Trade in values are WAY above what they were a year ago as well....don't hear any complaints from customers when their trade in is worth 10k more than what it should be......market is crazy for sure... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRanchRuby Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 hour ago, FordBuyer said: It's not only new vehicles with outlandish ADMs, but even more so used vehicles. Subaru dealer by me is asking $36,000 for a 2020 Crosstrek Premium with 29,000 miles. That is way above sticker when new. Lincoln dealer is asking $56,000 for 2020 Model 3 with 40,000 miles. Crazy prices. 56 minutes ago, Deanh said: Trade in values are WAY above what they were a year ago as well....don't hear any complaints from customers when their trade in is worth 10k more than what it should be......market is crazy for sure... My local Ford dealer bought my 18 F150 King Ranch back from me. I purchased it in 18 for 62k and the gave me 52k for it with 40,000 miles on it. I custom ordered a new F150 and while it might take a while to get it...I'm definitely not complaining about the value I got out of it due to the current market situation! However if you are on the other end of it, I understand...the dealership sold it close to what I paid for it...ouch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 I wonder how long this will last though, house prices are crashing and the stock market looks like it’s about to drop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 36 minutes ago, jpd80 said: I wonder how long this will last though, house prices are crashing and the stock market looks like it’s about to drop Where are house prices crashing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 hour ago, rmc523 said: Where are house prices crashing? About to crash, Stockmarket bubble is about to burst… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 4 hours ago, rmc523 said: Where are house prices crashing? Interest rates in January have gone up. Also, it’s expected the Fed will raises rates more often this year than expected. Will it effect homes prices? It should but that doesn’t mean it will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 7 hours ago, jpd80 said: About to crash, Stockmarket bubble is about to burst… Housing has the same issue that vehicles do now, and will for longer that the auto supply issue. You also have the added issue of foreigners parking their money in real estate as a safe haven, the airBnB and VRBO investors that is taking signal family supply off market and changing the cost structure for neighborhoods as values become based on what it will rent for 15 days a month. There just isn't supply out there, constructions costs are insane, and that is assuming you can actually get someone to do the work and find the supplies and raw materials to do it. Also with the housing market the way it is you are pretty dumb if you don't sell your property/house yourself real estate agents were fairly useless in the past and are even more so now. Stock market needed a nice rebalancing, some valuations are just crazy but people need a place to put all this money world governments around the world have pumped out over the last 2-4 years. So it is stocks and real estate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 The housing market might drop, but in the grand scheme of things, short of something terrible happening to the area that house is in, the price will be an appreciating asset. Just as an example: Parents bought a house in 1973 for $26K....it was small about 1100 Sq ft They sold it in 2003 for 210K I just checked the pricing on Zillow, and its estimated to be $310K now...which is a bit on the high end. Apparently my house value has gone up 150K in the past 6 years I've lived in it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 F-150 Lightning Order Bank Opening Playbook attached. Page 21 mentions Ford's Ad Covenant Program for F-150 Lightning. Note guideline #4. AD COVENANT PROGRAM GUIDELINES 5 guidelines that must be followed in order to be compliant: (Note: The first three guidelines are the same as Ad Standards) 1. Clearly disclose any stacked incentives in the body of the ad and refrain from stacking multiple conditional offers. 2. Refrain from language that implies the dealer has a Company-supported advantage over other dealers. 3. Must include Destination & Delivery charge (D&D) and all other customer charges in advertised vehicle price. 4. Dealers may not advertise or promote eligible vehicles at a price, payment, or offer that is derived from a starting price that is below MSRP, less available public incentives. – Dealers may derive their price, payment, or offer from the AZ-Plan price only in states where A/Z Plan sales exceed 20% of total sales. The use of A/Z Plan pricing must be clearly disclosed in the body of the ad. – Despite the restriction on advertising, dealers can transact with the customer at any price they choose (at, above, or below MSRP). 5. Dealers cannot advertise free or discounted products, services, accessories, or other non-monetary enticements related to the placement of a reservation or purchase of an eligible vehicle 2022 F-150 Lightning Order Bank Opening Playbook-1-3-22.pdf 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saleen182 Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 1:11 AM, rmc523 said: Where are house prices crashing? Not here....higher than they've ever been! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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