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2024 Mustang Spied


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11 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

Damn, still no shooting brake version,,,,,

 

Hahaha, HRG

Mustang Shooting Brake.JPG

 

That rear windshield needs to be raked much further forward for it to look good.

I get more upright is more practical, but doesn't look good for a sporty car.

 

2 hours ago, akirby said:


Will it fit height wise?

 

I think he's referring to a Ranchero type product.

 

51 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

A car based pickup would…..Imagine Mustang like this Falcon Pickup, same  but different 

 

087b36c543eb534c3afd18bfbefc185bea5428e1

 

Eh, I think that ship has long sailed.

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15 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Eh, I think that ship has long sailed.

Yeah, just havin’ fun, I think the truth is that we’re lucky to have another Mustang coupe.

Anyone who thinks that Ford will spend beyond the minimum  to keep FRAP open is dreaming.

Edited by jpd80
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20 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

That rear windshield needs to be raked much further forward for it to look good.

I get more upright is more practical, but doesn't look good for a sporty car.

 

 

I think he's referring to a Ranchero type product.

 

 

Eh, I think that ship has long sailed.

That's the issue with shooting brakes and hot hatches. People want them to look good, but also be practical. Touch line to talk at times.

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2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Of course I could be spreading nonsense……..it’s probably too late in the game to add another product to FRAP.

 

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Yeah, just havin’ fun, I think the truth is that we’re lucky to have another Mustang coupe.

Anyone who thinks that Ford will spend beyond the minimum  to keep FRAP open is dreaming.

Not what I am hearing.  Remember Ford was ready  to drop a billion in this plant a few years ago until Hackett cancelled it. 

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28 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

 

Not what I am hearing.  Remember Ford was ready  to drop a billion in this plant a few years ago until Hackett cancelled it. 

The important point is that they didn’t, keeping Flat Rock was an easy, low cost way out of a sticky situation for Ford, the big change in the past six months is Ford doubling down on Electric Vehicles so it’s likely that is now a priority over other planned engineering projects.

Edited by jpd80
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4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

A better option might be a two door pickup, Ford could do that more easily and it would work in the existing Flat Rock facility

 

I'm surprised Ford hadn't made a shooting brake 'wagon' version of the Mustang. I think it would have looked nice and be practical. I agree with the 2-door Mustang pickup variant idea that you had in the below-linked thread. I suggested it be called 'Mustang Ranchero'. I know it probably is too late in the process for Ford to do this though.
 

 

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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

The important point is that they didn’t, keeping Flat Rock was an easy, low cost way out of a sticky situation for Ford, the big change in the past six months is Ford doubling down on Electric Vehicles so it’s likely that is now a priority over other planned engineering projects.

But remember there's a new sheriff in town.

 

FRAP was supposed to be building EVs- first the Mach E  then the EV Explorer/Navigator.  The latter two do not have a home as yet. If Ford can blow a billion on a train station and $11 billion on two new plants, they certainly can sink money in FRAP.

Edited by Footballfan
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10 hours ago, Footballfan said:

But remember there's a new sheriff in town.

 

FRAP was supposed to be building EVs- first the Mach E  then the EV Explorer/Navigator.  The latter two do not have a home as yet. If Ford can blow a billion on a train station and $11 billion on two new plants, they certainly can sink money in FRAP.

 

I think the bigger issue with an EV plant is that you basically need to gut the plant and start over...except for the body stamping and paint shop.

 

The EV expansion at Dearborn Truck is basically a new line. the Mach-E plant was shut down for a year or more for the conversion.

 

 

The point I am making is that no other American plant is set up to handle the current Mustang. Shutting down FRAP for conversion to EVs would likely take over a year.

 

Ford is not going to shut down Mustang production for a year while they wait to convert FRAP to EVs. 

 

 

What is more likely than that is Ford basically building a new EV line next to FRAP like Dearborn Truck. I won't hold my breath on that.

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30 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

 

I think the bigger issue with an EV plant is that you basically need to gut the plant and start over...except for the body stamping and paint shop.

 

The EV expansion at Dearborn Truck is basically a new line. the Mach-E plant was shut down for a year or more for the conversion.

 

 

The point I am making is that no other American plant is set up to handle the current Mustang. Shutting down FRAP for conversion to EVs would likely take over a year.

 

Ford is not going to shut down Mustang production for a year while they wait to convert FRAP to EVs. 

 

 

What is more likely than that is Ford basically building a new EV line next to FRAP like Dearborn Truck. I won't hold my breath on that.


I was wondering if they might move it to CAP.  They should have capacity as the EV versions ramp up and they do share some parts.

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2 hours ago, ausrutherford said:

 

I think the bigger issue with an EV plant is that you basically need to gut the plant and start over...except for the body stamping and paint shop.

 

The EV expansion at Dearborn Truck is basically a new line. the Mach-E plant was shut down for a year or more for the conversion.

 

 

The point I am making is that no other American plant is set up to handle the current Mustang. Shutting down FRAP for conversion to EVs would likely take over a year.

 

Ford is not going to shut down Mustang production for a year while they wait to convert FRAP to EVs. 

 

 

What is more likely than that is Ford basically building a new EV line next to FRAP like Dearborn Truck. I won't hold my breath on that.

Keep in mind that you can engineer anything.  The gm plant in Sping Hill for example is going to build the Lyric EV along with the XT 4 and 5.  The new Jeep plant in Detroit is also supposed to be able to build EVs as well on the same line as the ICE Jeeps. 

 

 

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20 hours ago, jpd80 said:

A better option might be a two door pickup, Ford could do that more easily and it would work in the existing Flat Rock facility

 

17 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Well we all know Ford is actually planning a mustang cargo van for flat rock ;)

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4 hours ago, ausrutherford said:

 

I think the bigger issue with an EV plant is that you basically need to gut the plant and start over...except for the body stamping and paint shop.

 

The EV expansion at Dearborn Truck is basically a new line. the Mach-E plant was shut down for a year or more for the conversion.

 

 

The point I am making is that no other American plant is set up to handle the current Mustang. Shutting down FRAP for conversion to EVs would likely take over a year.

 

Ford is not going to shut down Mustang production for a year while they wait to convert FRAP to EVs. 

 

 

What is more likely than that is Ford basically building a new EV line next to FRAP like Dearborn Truck. I won't hold my breath on that.

 

If they can gut the F-150 plant and rebuild it in 8 weeks, I'm sure they could gut and convert to EV in less than a year if they wanted to.  I just think there was no real pressure to convert the plant from Fiesta to Mach E in super speed.  Given it was their first real EV too, they probably wanted to make sure they got it right.

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

If they can gut the F-150 plant and rebuild it in 8 weeks, I'm sure they could gut and convert to EV in less than a year if they wanted to.  I just think there was no real pressure to convert the plant from Fiesta to Mach E in super speed.  Given it was their first real EV too, they probably wanted to make sure they got it right.

 

True, maybe they took their time given it was the first conversion.

3 hours ago, Footballfan said:

Keep in mind that you can engineer anything.  The gm plant in Sping Hill for example is going to build the Lyric EV along with the XT 4 and 5.  The new Jeep plant in Detroit is also supposed to be able to build EVs as well on the same line as the ICE Jeeps. 

 

 

 

I do not think that Ford would be interested in doing in a half ICE/half EV plant. If they are going to do it, they will convert the whole way. 

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3 hours ago, akirby said:


Not if the new EVs start to take sales.  If not then I agree.

Or the cost/benefit favors the EV in the future. We've seen Ford be willing to let go of market segments (sedans and minivans), to favor more profitable ones. They are willing to take less overall sales if they make more profit on the ones that are left.

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On 1/16/2022 at 2:26 PM, Footballfan said:

But remember there's a new sheriff in town.

 

FRAP was supposed to be building EVs- first the Mach E  then the EV Explorer/Navigator.  The latter two do not have a home as yet. If Ford can blow a billion on a train station and $11 billion on two new plants, they certainly can sink money in FRAP.

Sorry, I didn’t respond to your post as I wanted to step back and let other posters have a chance to discuss. Most have expressed the same ideas I have and In many instances articulated those point better than me, so thanks to all above :)

 

What I will add is this,

1. If BEVs don’t go to CAP, that will ultimately impact that plant’s output and the number of shifts/people there.

2. If the BEVs are going to turn into medium/high volume product, they will need a dedicated plant 

3. Oakville changeover to BEV times well for BEV Explorer/Aviator….

4. and if 3 happens, could MEB based Ford BEVs move to another location like, say Louisville?

 

Please note, the above is purely for discussion purposes and not as anything Ford is actually planning to do.

 

Edited by jpd80
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On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2022 at 4:53 PM, fuzzymoomoo said:


It has been suspected that S650 won't be a radical redesign but more of an evolution of S550 which tracks along with what they're doing with the rest of the lineup, mainly F-series. 

didn't someone high up stae the next Mustang iteration would be so sexy you would have to hold onto your hats?....

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1 hour ago, Deanh said:

didn't someone high up stae the next Mustang iteration would be so sexy you would have to hold onto your hats?....

Jim Farley said he wanted to make it a car people had as posters and wallpapers. I believe it was ExplorerDude who called the s650 gorgeous based on sketches he'd seen. 

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Just speculating... I posted this before in the previous S650 thread. I think Ford is not yet ready to pull the plug on manual (it still does a decent business in Mustang) but I suspect all the auto will be hybrid. And Ford will charge a premium for "heritage" models like Bullitt or MACH 1 that will appeal to enthusiasts willing to pay the premium to keep V8+Manual+RWD in production. Just look at Porsche's business model with 911... 

 

2.3 Ecoboost manual

2.3 Ecoboost hybrid auto (optional AWD?)

5.0 V8 hybrid auto (optional AWD?)

5.0 V8 manual Bullitt or MACH 1

Edited by bzcat
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49 minutes ago, bzcat said:

Just speculating... I posted this before in the previous S650 thread. I think Ford is not yet ready to pull the plug on manual (it still does a decent business in Mustang) but I suspect all the auto will be hybrid. And Ford will charge a premium for "heritage" models like Bullitt or MACH 1 that will appeal to enthusiasts willing to pay the premium to keep V8+Manual+RWD in production. Just look at Porsche's business model with 911... 

 

2.3 Ecoboost manual

2.3 Ecoboost hybrid auto (optional AWD?)

5.0 V8 hybrid auto (optional AWD?)

5.0 V8 manual Bullitt or MACH 1

I think those powertrains are very close to what we'll get. I wonder if Ford will continue to offer two manuals, or offer tremecs in all manual mustangs. Hopefully it's the later. That being said, the 7 speed in the bronco was designed by the same company who makes the mt-82. Apparently that transmission could handle power outputs similar to what the 5.0 puts out, and is designed with hybrid implementation in mind. So we could see a tweaked version of that transmission, without the crawler gear obviously ;).

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Looking at the tea leaves with the Mustang and Flat Rock, I'm wondering if Ford is just going to keep Flat Rock running the duration of the the next contract (I think the current contract is up next year) with just the Mustang and then move it to a new plant as BEV later this decade. 

 

It seems like a complete non-starter to introduce any "new" ICE or Hybrid products in the next 3 years and after 2025, everything will be full speed ahead as a BEV or replaced as a BEV. Current ICE products will get MCE updates that will take them as close to the 2030 date, at which time they'll move to a BEV architecture at that point. That means the Bronco/Ranger and C class products (Maverick, Transit Connect, Escape, Bronco Sport). I'm not really sure if its worth bringing in a new hybrid product like a Fusion Active or some sort of other C based product based on the Evos for only 5 years or so (if it comes out as a 2023/24MY) to North America, just to have it replaced by a BEV in 2030? 

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