Jump to content

2 ongoing issues with my 2018 Navigator, when is it time to find another dealership?


Recommended Posts

Here are my 2 issues:

 

2018 Navigator Reserve 55k miles.  Had since new.

 

1. 21 way adjustable seat, passenger side.  Seat randomly moves backwards until lockout and motor begins clicking, Impossible to move forward until clicking stops.  It may happen 20 times in a 30 min car ride then not happen again for a couple days.  Only happens when someone is in the seat.  Switch was replaced, no changes.  Seat is currently disabled to leave room for backseat occupant until I take it back in for the 3rd time to address this situation.  This has been going on since September.

 

2.  Vehicle acts like it has an ignition miss or transmission slipping or rear end issue when in 4x4 or excite modes. Under acceleration or any load (towing) it seems to skip, it feels like a miss in the ignition or something slipping in the rear end.  I drove the tech around for him to experience it, he says it never did this in his test drives yet it literally does it 100% of the time with any acceleration from a dead stop… he said it’s obvious to him now.  It’s been in 2 times for this and it’s still not resolved.  First time they replaced one coil and one spark plug (not sure why just one), no luck.  Second time they did TSB 21-2357. They drive the vehicle back to my house and say it’s fixed, yet I jump in and drive and it’s still doing the same thing.  Idk if the tech is test driving it or not but I feel like I’m being gas lit.  The last attempt was a 10 day stay at dealership.  This is a smaller dealership and they don’t have any Navigators for loaners, which is a royal PITA and cost me a camping trip this particular repair attempt.  
 

We are at our wits end with these two issues (there have been more before this but these have pushed us over the edge) and are not sure how to move forward.  We bought this vehicle new and had plans to buy my wife an Aviator but scrapped that and went to Toyota instead.  I’d get out of this one now but can’t because of these issues.

 

The problem with going to a different dealer is we are out of range for the valet service thing.  We paid extra for this service through the duration of the extended warranty/service plan because I’m a stay at home dad and don’t have the luxury or desire to sit around the dealership waiting on repairs.

 

Any advice on how to move forward would be greatly appreciated as I’m about to go scorched earth on Monday.  I’ve waited an entire week before calling them back to inform them this last 10 day visit resolved nothing, I thought I’d calmed down but I drove the car yesterday, this was the first time I’d left the house since getting over flipping omicron and I was instantly annoyed when pulling out of my neighborhood with this slipping missing whatever transmission issue. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Man, sorry to hear all the issues you are having. I bought a 2019 Navigator Black Label with 35,000 miles 14 months ago. I put 21,000 miles on since. It has been in the shop 6 times and is currently in again. 

 

1. Seal in the rear transaxle was leaking.

2. Car would start sounding alarm randomly while parked, no one near the car. They found some problem with the HD Towing package aftermarket put on at the dealer when it was new. 

3. Got a recall notice for noisy (and it was very noisy) cam phasers on cold start ups. They had to reprogram it. I got it back and it was just as noisy.

4. I called the dealer about the noise and they said Lincoln had another recall to reprogram it back to the original settings. So they had it for another couple days. 

5. The noise was worse. This apparently triggered another recall to replace the cam phasers. This is a big job and took a couple weeks to get my Navigator back. When they brought it back with cam phasers replaced, it still had the cold start noise. The dealer advisor said it's probably the turbo waste gates rattling. I looked that up and there are many videos and forums discussing this exact problem with the EcoBoost engines. Dealer then sent me a notice from Ford saying these noises are normal. This doesn't match most of the videos I have watched with the gate arm rattling due to slop in the connections. The dealer can't do anything as Lincoln won't cover it under warranty. Many video show the damage that can happen and that might result in turbo failures down the road. Not very comforting news. 

6.1 I got the vehicle back and drove it and noticed the noise was still there on cold start. But also, there was a burning oil smell after the engine was warmed up.  I called the dealership right away and they said that's a normal smell that will go away when the gaskets and warmed in. Ok, I can buy that. I went out of town for work and left the car sit for 14 days. Came back and the battery was dead. I called roadside assistance and got a jump. Then I took the car back to the Lincoln dealer and the battery, replaced in December 2020, was bad and not covered by warranty because the battery was not bought by me, it was bought by the dealer. The burning smell was stronger than ever. Then...

6.2 I asked the service advisor to check the smell, and low and behold, the valve covers were leaking oil. So now I'm driving a loaner for the 6th time in 14 months and 21,000 miles. they have to take apart the top of the engine to redo the valve gaskets. 

 

My confidence in Lincoln and Ford Motor Company is shaken to the core. 

 

This is my 4th Lincoln. Over the years I have had 4 Mercuries, 6 Fords, a few GM's, 3 Hondas and 3 Acuras. I have owned a total of 26 cars and have never experienced anything close to the problems I have on this vehicle. May plan to to sell it. 

 

Sorry I have no answers for you but I thought I would commiserate with a fellow unhappy Lincoln customer. 

 

Good luck with yours!  

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/4/2022 at 2:56 PM, Captain K said:

I bought a 2019 Navigator Black Label with 35,000 miles 14 months ago ... My confidence in Lincoln and Ford Motor Company is shaken to the core. 

 

 

Wow, makes me nervous as a first time lincoln owner after a long and mostly trouble-free decade+ with BMW and Audi prior to that ... I have an order for a 2022 Navigator BL ... I won't be happy if this is the experience I can expect ...

 

Sorry to hear about all these issues - hopefully you can find a dealership to work them through and get some good use years out of 'er.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm no sure no one else has had issues with BMWs and Audis and experienced poor service from any of their respective dealerships. I think part of it is people like all of us who love our vehicles so much that we join internet forums are much more in tune with our vehicles. I know that my issues I have had with my Navigator, software mostly, are things 99% of owners would never even know are functioning improperly because they don't even know the technology is there int the first place. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My M340 has been solid mechanically.  Software on the other hand, not so much.  After 3 tries, I finally got the dealer to get the heated seats to come on with remote start.  I had to track down the TSB myself.  The service tech kept insisting the seats were coming on appropriately while driving the car, which they were.  I couldn’t get them to understand the issue was only with remote starting through the app.  

 

The sport display with tach on the HUD was correct when I picked up the car three years ago but went away after an over the air software update 2 years ago.  It is finally back after the dealer installed new software to fix the heated seat issue last month.

 

You never know.  I had a 2005 E55 AMG that had many gremlins and will be the last Mercedes I ever own.  But another guy at work got the same car at the same time and it was flawless.  He then sold it to somebody else at work and the new owner says it’s still going strong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Xraymd said:

My M340 has been solid mechanically.  Software on the other hand, not so much.  After 3 tries, I finally got the dealer to get the heated seats to come on with remote start.  I had to track down the TSB myself.  The service tech kept insisting the seats were coming on appropriately while driving the car, which they were.  I couldn’t get them to understand the issue was only with remote starting through the app.  

 

The sport display with tach on the HUD was correct when I picked up the car three years ago but went away after an over the air software update 2 years ago.  It is finally back after the dealer installed new software to fix the heated seat issue last month.

 

You never know.  I had a 2005 E55 AMG that had many gremlins and will be the last Mercedes I ever own.  But another guy at work got the same car at the same time and it was flawless.  He then sold it to somebody else at work and the new owner says it’s still going strong.

That is the thing right there. Vehicles sometimes have issues, it's the way it is. I fly Airbus aircraft. One works fine, one is buggy. Some develop mechanical issues, others don't. 

 

My experience is that it is the dealerships service department that make or break the experience, not the manufacturer. Hell, Lincoln, not a dealership, is buying back my vehicle because of all the software issues. That is good customer service. I have had the same experience of having to tell a service manager the number of a TSB to look up. Many of them are just useless. Probably true across all makes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/22/2022 at 9:36 PM, boredinbirmingham said:

Here are my 2 issues:

 

2018 Navigator Reserve 55k miles.  Had since new.

 

1. 21 way adjustable seat, passenger side.  Seat randomly moves backwards until lockout and motor begins clicking, Impossible to move forward until clicking stops.  It may happen 20 times in a 30 min car ride then not happen again for a couple days.  Only happens when someone is in the seat.  Switch was replaced, no changes.  Seat is currently disabled to leave room for backseat occupant until I take it back in for the 3rd time to address this situation.  This has been going on since September.

 

2.  Vehicle acts like it has an ignition miss or transmission slipping or rear end issue when in 4x4 or excite modes. Under acceleration or any load (towing) it seems to skip, it feels like a miss in the ignition or something slipping in the rear end.  I drove the tech around for him to experience it, he says it never did this in his test drives yet it literally does it 100% of the time with any acceleration from a dead stop… he said it’s obvious to him now.  It’s been in 2 times for this and it’s still not resolved.  First time they replaced one coil and one spark plug (not sure why just one), no luck.  Second time they did TSB 21-2357. They drive the vehicle back to my house and say it’s fixed, yet I jump in and drive and it’s still doing the same thing.  Idk if the tech is test driving it or not but I feel like I’m being gas lit.  The last attempt was a 10 day stay at dealership.  This is a smaller dealership and they don’t have any Navigators for loaners, which is a royal PITA and cost me a camping trip this particular repair attempt.  
 

We are at our wits end with these two issues (there have been more before this but these have pushed us over the edge) and are not sure how to move forward.  We bought this vehicle new and had plans to buy my wife an Aviator but scrapped that and went to Toyota instead.  I’d get out of this one now but can’t because of these issues.

 

The problem with going to a different dealer is we are out of range for the valet service thing.  We paid extra for this service through the duration of the extended warranty/service plan because I’m a stay at home dad and don’t have the luxury or desire to sit around the dealership waiting on repairs.

 

Any advice on how to move forward would be greatly appreciated as I’m about to go scorched earth on Monday.  I’ve waited an entire week before calling them back to inform them this last 10 day visit resolved nothing, I thought I’d calmed down but I drove the car yesterday, this was the first time I’d left the house since getting over flipping omicron and I was instantly annoyed when pulling out of my neighborhood with this slipping missing whatever transmission issue. 

 

 

 

My 2019 Black Label passenger seat does the same thing - Lincoln is buying it back after trying everything to repair.  My seat does it whether anyone is in the seat or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/10/2022 at 7:29 PM, BlueBlackLabel said:

 

My 2019 Black Label passenger seat does the same thing - Lincoln is buying it back after trying everything to repair.  My seat does it whether anyone is in the seat or not.

How were you able to do a buy back on a couple year old vehicle? The joy of owning this thing has pretty much gone, I just noticed a interior lighting failure the other day.  Ugh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/4/2022 at 5:56 PM, Captain K said:

Man, sorry to hear all the issues you are having. I bought a 2019 Navigator Black Label with 35,000 miles 14 months ago. I put 21,000 miles on since. It has been in the shop 6 times and is currently in again. 

 

1. Seal in the rear transaxle was leaking.

2. Car would start sounding alarm randomly while parked, no one near the car. They found some problem with the HD Towing package aftermarket put on at the dealer when it was new. 

3. Got a recall notice for noisy (and it was very noisy) cam phasers on cold start ups. They had to reprogram it. I got it back and it was just as noisy.

4. I called the dealer about the noise and they said Lincoln had another recall to reprogram it back to the original settings. So they had it for another couple days. 

5. The noise was worse. This apparently triggered another recall to replace the cam phasers. This is a big job and took a couple weeks to get my Navigator back. When they brought it back with cam phasers replaced, it still had the cold start noise. The dealer advisor said it's probably the turbo waste gates rattling. I looked that up and there are many videos and forums discussing this exact problem with the EcoBoost engines. Dealer then sent me a notice from Ford saying these noises are normal. This doesn't match most of the videos I have watched with the gate arm rattling due to slop in the connections. The dealer can't do anything as Lincoln won't cover it under warranty. Many video show the damage that can happen and that might result in turbo failures down the road. Not very comforting news. 

6.1 I got the vehicle back and drove it and noticed the noise was still there on cold start. But also, there was a burning oil smell after the engine was warmed up.  I called the dealership right away and they said that's a normal smell that will go away when the gaskets and warmed in. Ok, I can buy that. I went out of town for work and left the car sit for 14 days. Came back and the battery was dead. I called roadside assistance and got a jump. Then I took the car back to the Lincoln dealer and the battery, replaced in December 2020, was bad and not covered by warranty because the battery was not bought by me, it was bought by the dealer. The burning smell was stronger than ever. Then...

6.2 I asked the service advisor to check the smell, and low and behold, the valve covers were leaking oil. So now I'm driving a loaner for the 6th time in 14 months and 21,000 miles. they have to take apart the top of the engine to redo the valve gaskets. 

 

My confidence in Lincoln and Ford Motor Company is shaken to the core. 

 

This is my 4th Lincoln. Over the years I have had 4 Mercuries, 6 Fords, a few GM's, 3 Hondas and 3 Acuras. I have owned a total of 26 cars and have never experienced anything close to the problems I have on this vehicle. May plan to to sell it. 

 

Sorry I have no answers for you but I thought I would commiserate with a fellow unhappy Lincoln customer. 

 

Good luck with yours!  

 

 

 

 

Wow, your story is so similar to mine.  Mine had cam phasers as well at 36k.  I’m just glad we bought the extended warranty.  I’m ready to sell but I can’t with the current issues or I’ll take a massive hit on value.  This is probably my last Ford and I’ve had several.  Honestly, I’m a little gi shy on anything turbo at this point so the updated LX seems risky and that platform has been one of the strongest most reliable for pretty much forever.  I just hope they can figure these issues out and it will at least be enjoyable to drive unlike now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, twintornados said:

 

What current issues that will cause you to take a "massive hit"??

They are the subject of this entire post.

1.  passenger seat has been disabled by the dealer disabled because it moves on its own and they have no solution after multiple visits to service department.  Issue ongoing for months now.

 

2.  Any 4x4 mode vehicle skips or misses under any throttle input.  In gears 2,3,4 under load issue extremely pronounced.  Driving experience in excite mode exhibits this behavior so much so it is just infuriating to drive. 
 

Now answer this question honestly: if you test drove this vehicle would these issue be a cause for concern thus causing you to either a) run, not walk, away from this deal b) make offer far below asking price using these issues as a negotiating tool c) be willing to pay fair market value regardless of these issues.

 

If you answered ‘a’ or ‘b’ I would consider these to constitute a massive hit.

 

Vehicle is a 2018 with 56k miles.  Car fax will show cam phasers replaced, TSB 21-2357 transmission repair, both wheel bearings etc etc etc.  There is no chance of me not taking a hit on this thing and less chance of me taking it deep into the odometer.  I gotta dump it before the extended warranty wears off or I develop a crack addiction leading to extremely poor decisions and keeping the thing past the warranty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, boredinbirmingham said:

How were you able to do a buy back on a couple year old vehicle? The joy of owning this thing has pretty much gone, I just noticed a interior lighting failure the other day.  Ugh.

In my case, 2020 Nav, I kept after Lincoln through the Concierge so much and uttered the dreaded lemon law words that they initiated the buyback offer on mine. How many days has your truck been out of service. Certainly if more than 30 for the same issues, you likely qualify under your state's Lemon Law. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Black Label said:

In my case, 2020 Nav, I kept after Lincoln through the Concierge so much and uttered the dreaded lemon law words that they initiated the buyback offer on mine. How many days has your truck been out of service. Certainly if more than 30 for the same issues, you likely qualify under your state's Lemon Law. 

I’m probably 15-20 days in with this transmission issue, not sure about the seat.  I can look at my records and see.  Mine is a 2018 so lemon law is long since passed in my state.m, it’s first year or 12k miles.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, boredinbirmingham said:

Now answer this question honestly: if you test drove this vehicle would these issue be a cause for concern thus causing you to either a) run, not walk, away from this deal b) make offer far below asking price using these issues as a negotiating tool c) be willing to pay fair market value regardless of these issues.

 

If you answered ‘a’ or ‘b’ I would consider these to constitute a massive hit.

 

I answer "C". I would consider it since it was repaired by a Ford/Lincoln dealer correctly and I would negotiate a fair price regardless of repair history. I am not scared of what a "carfax" says as long as those issues were taken care of correctly.

 

No one is holding a gun to your head making you keep a vehicle you obviously don't like and/or trust....get rid of it and buy something else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, twintornados said:

 

I answer "C". I would consider it since it was repaired by a Ford/Lincoln dealer correctly and I would negotiate a fair price regardless of repair history. I am not scared of what a "carfax" says as long as those issues were taken care of correctly.

 

No one is holding a gun to your head making you keep a vehicle you obviously don't like and/or trust....get rid of it and buy something else.

I think your confused.  The vehicle currently has both these issues after multiple attempts by Lincoln to resolve.  
 

Still going with ‘c’?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, boredinbirmingham said:

I think your confused.  The vehicle currently has both these issues after multiple attempts by Lincoln to resolve.  
 

Still going with ‘c’?

Just a thought but you may try to find a Black Label dealer in your area.  Black Label dealers must meet stringent sales and service requirements.  

 

If you're in Birmingham, AL then Long-Lewis Lincoln of Hoover is your closest Black Label dealer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, RedHoncho01 said:

Just a thought but you may try to find a Black Label dealer in your area.  Black Label dealers must meet stringent sales and service requirements.  

 

If you're in Birmingham, AL then Long-Lewis Lincoln of Hoover is your closest Black Label dealer.

This is a good idea. I’m no longer in Birmingham but I just checked their website and there is one a little over an hour away.  It’s too far for the pick up and delivery service but as long as I get a loaner I think this may be my next move.

 

thanks for the tip!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Update:

I took this car shortage opportunity of high prices of used vehicles to sell my Lincoln Navigator Black Label. It's a sad day and a relief at the same time. I count myself lucky to be able to get out of this situation without taking a big hit.

I'm just surprised at Lincoln for the poor quality of this vehicle. It's the flagship brand and flagship model of the company. It's MSRP nearly $110K and has so many issues. My sister in law had a 2018 bought back by Lincoln for issues. She got a new one and now she is experiencing more issues. 

I've owned so many Ford products and always had good luck. This experience was so distressing I've decided to never buy another of their products. Sad sad sad. I will never recommend Ford Motor Company again. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/17/2022 at 10:01 PM, boredinbirmingham said:

How were you able to do a buy back on a couple year old vehicle? The joy of owning this thing has pretty much gone, I just noticed a interior lighting failure the other day.  Ugh.

Bought in VA, their lemon laws applied.  I was at the end of the 18 month their law requires.

 

Have you looked into the Magnuson Moss warranty act and if you have any protection with that? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Today we had an issue with a cooling hose that came off while returning home from a camping trip.  The hose clamp was still on the hose, just not over the fitting, this could only happen from a tech removing the hose and putting it back and not putting the clamp back to where it should be. It was a side of the road fix but one that may have pushed me to finally ditch this vehicle.  My faith in my dealership service team was wavering but now it’s pretty much shot. How should I approach this with my service manager?  It’s likely from the cam phaser repair a few months ago, I’m shocked the hose didn’t come off before this but it immediately proceeded a long slow climb up a hilly dirt road with my camper in tow, I’m assuming the cooling system was working overtime and the pressure finally popped that hose off the fitting.  Thankfully, I was able to spot the issue and had enough water on board to get us up and running.  I’m not even mad anymore, just tired of the roller coaster.  The car did briefly overheat.

 

D9FF6DE9-744E-45D5-AE16-4FB20221EF75.thumb.jpeg.d15b8f59a3f3c38c75aaab1d9fb35b6e.jpeg

Edited by boredinbirmingham
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/18/2022 at 12:20 PM, RedHoncho01 said:

Just a thought but you may try to find a Black Label dealer in your area.  Black Label dealers must meet stringent sales and service requirements.  

 

If you're in Birmingham, AL then Long-Lewis Lincoln of Hoover is your closest Black Label dealer.

I’ve looked into the closest (over an hour away) Black Label Dealer and their sales reviews are all 5 stars but all their complaints are regarding their service department.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I called my regular service manager today, he never received a voicemail I left a month ago, he told me their voicemail doesn’t work… nice.  
 

I told him I still had my 4x4 issue and that I had the hose blow off because the clamp wasn’t installed properly.  He said he wasn’t surprised because of the tech that had worked on my vehicle.  He offered to schedule a service but said it would be a while because his lead tech quit because he was over worked.  I told him I’d get back to him…. Ugh.  


 

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...