Any tuning for the 7.3?

[jstapleton]

Has anyone used a tuner\programmer for the 7.3L yet?  I had the 5 star tuning program for the F150 EB and was very happy with the performance.  They have had the 7.3L program out for a little while and considering it.  It seems the 7.3L numbers are a little low compared to smaller engines that claim close to the same HP\torque, and leaves room for some improvement.

[bshort]

They won't sell me one, based on location.  

[jstapleton]

35 minutes ago, bshort said:

They won't sell me one, based on location.  

 

Wow, didn't realize that was restricted.  Is that a California restriction or are you outside the US?

[CBears]

Following this topic.  I always bought tuning kits for my Harleys, hadn't really considered doing the same thing to my truck.  Interesting!

[jstapleton]

4 hours ago, CBears said:

Following this topic.  I always bought tuning kits for my Harleys, hadn't really considered doing the same thing to my truck.  Interesting!

 

Here is the URL if you haven't searched for it:

https://5startuning.com/got-a-2020-7-3l-super-duty/

 

TFL truck did some reviews of the difference as well.

[bshort]

On 1/24/2022 at 5:37 AM, jstapleton said:

 

Wow, didn't realize that was restricted.  Is that a California restriction or are you outside the US?

 

Probably a Ca thing.  Straight from their page, "This product is not legal for sale or use in the state of California. Orders disregarding this note will be canceled."  

[IUEC135ELEVATOR]

I don't think I could survive living in California everything I like is either illegal or banned there.

[CBears]

25 minutes ago, IUEC135ELEVATOR said:

I don't think I could survive living in California everything I like is either illegal or banned there.

Or on fire!!!  Think I’ll stay in Kansas. 

[jstapleton]

25 minutes ago, CBears said:

Or on fire!!!  Think I’ll stay in Kansas. 

 

Yeah, sometimes it's nice to be in a less exciting state.  I'm in Michigan and safe from most natural disasters.

[bshort]

21 hours ago, IUEC135ELEVATOR said:

I don't think I could survive living in California everything I like is either illegal or banned there.

 

The tuning aspect is actually a federal statute.  

[IUEC135ELEVATOR]

8 hours ago, bshort said:

 

The tuning aspect is actually a federal statute.  

Huh? So does that mean technically it's all illegal but California is the only one that enforces it? 

 

That doesn't make sense to me because I have never heard of a law that says I can't add a msd box or headers, intake, for a 650 horsepower big block to one of my vehicles.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong I just don't really understand what you're saying I guess.

[road turtle]

1 hour ago, IUEC135ELEVATOR said:

Huh? So does that mean technically it's all illegal but California is the only one that enforces it? 

 

That doesn't make sense to me because I have never heard of a law that says I can't add a msd box or headers, intake, for a 650 horsepower big block to one of my vehicles.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong I just don't really understand what you're saying I guess.

you adding it is generally not going to get feds attention, HOWEVER, a business supplying parts or installing stuff will definitely get feds attention.

[TheFatInTheHat]

23 minutes ago, road turtle said:

you adding it is generally not going to get feds attention, HOWEVER, a business supplying parts or installing stuff will definitely get feds attention.

 

There are massive amounts of businesses selling parts and tuning services for all kinds of vehicles online. I don't see how this statute could possibly exist and businesses everywhere could get away with it. I'd like to see the statute.

[IUEC135ELEVATOR]

3 hours ago, TheFatInTheHat said:

 

There are massive amounts of businesses selling parts and tuning services for all kinds of vehicles online. I don't see how this statute could possibly exist and businesses everywhere could get away with it. I'd like to see the statute.

Probably has to do with some EPA thing some EPA rule or something. That's why even tuners for more horsepower say "better mpg"

 

Anytime I have had a tune done over the years or a programmer or chip or whatever it maybe I've never got better miles per gallon I just get more horsepower and I'm quite happy with that!?

[bshort]

13 hours ago, road turtle said:

you adding it is generally not going to get feds attention, HOWEVER, a business supplying parts or installing stuff will definitely get feds attention.

 Correct.  Look at late model diesel tuning and deleting businesses.  

 

Ca just says they'll take action of some sort, so these businesses just don't sell here.  

[bshort]

13 hours ago, TheFatInTheHat said:

 

There are massive amounts of businesses selling parts and tuning services for all kinds of vehicles online. I don't see how this statute could possibly exist and businesses everywhere could get away with it. I'd like to see the statute.

 You can find it within the Clean Air Act in and around the 200's sections

[Petey_highboost]

Talk to palm beach dyno in FL. They have a juiced up 7.3L

[TheFatInTheHat]

3 hours ago, bshort said:

 You can find it within the Clean Air Act in and around the 200's sections

 

So in other words you have no clue and are just talking. If there's a statute post the relevant language or quit talking.

[road turtle]

6 hours ago, TheFatInTheHat said:

 

So in other words you have no clue and are just talking. If there's a statute post the relevant language or quit talking.

ask and you shall recieve

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-12/documents/tamperinganddefeatdevices-enfalert.pdf

 

  The Clean Air Act also prohibits anyone from manufacturing, offering for sale, selling,
or installing any part or component that bypasses or defeats emissions controls

 

This means that aftermarket part manufacturers,
sellers, and installers can avoid enforcement
action by having proof before manufacturing,
selling, and installing parts or components that
they will not increase emissions. As noted above,
emissions test results using the same tests used to
certify the applicable vehicle or engine can be
used to demonstrate compliance, or an Executive
Order from CARB demonstrating no increase in
emissions for the intended use of the part.
VIOLATING THE LAW IS COSTLY
Violation of the tampering and defeat device
prohibitions of the Clean Air Act may result in civil
penalties. As of January 13, 2020, a person may
be liable for a maximum civil penalty of $4,819
per defeat device manufactured, sold, or installed,
or per vehicle tampered. A dealer or vehicle
manufacturer who tampers with a vehicle may be
subject to significantly higher civil penalties. Clean
Air Act section 205(a); 40 C.F.R. §19.4. This per
defeat device penalty can add up to a very large
penalty when many such products have been
sold, as, for example, in a recent case against
Performance Diesel, Inc. (see text box)

 

[road turtle]

OEM spend MILLIONS of dollars calibrating their powertrains to meet federal and state regulations.  In addition, the calibrations have to meet those regulations, no matter the temperature, humidity, altitude, barametric pressure, different fuels, etc etc etc... and still not self destruct.

 

Long story, but there was a report on a Chrysler SRT forum about a guy who's engine grenaded itself.  Chrysler sent a powertrain engineer to the dealer, who found in a remote section of the data section the calibration had been updated dozens of times.  They rejected the warranty claim, leaving the guy with a broken engine that he was going to have to replace himself.  There was also a "tuner" that had a most wonderful ability to squeak every last HP out of an engine, in perfect conditions.  HOWEVER, he left a pile of debris of broken engines.  It took a few years before his reputation caught up to him.  Funny thing, he actually sued a bunch of people for "defamation" for saying his "tune" trashed the engines, until he ran into a court that held him accountable.  He's disappeared from the tuning forums after that.

 

I won't tune my F350D, instead trusting that Ford has gotten it right, especially for towing.

 

I do have a tuner in my Chally, specifically to bypass skip shift.

 

I also had a tuner for my Charger RT, but that's a longer story about how Chrysler detuned the RT engine to create a different performance from the SRT.

 

BTW, I'm an engineer working for an OEM on powertrains. I actually have the equipment to directly modify the tunes myself, but even then, I won't.

[akirby]

11 hours ago, TheFatInTheHat said:

 

If there's a statute post the relevant language or quit talking.

Can’t you look it up?

[TheFatInTheHat]

14 hours ago, road turtle said:

ask and you shall recieve

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-12/documents/tamperinganddefeatdevices-enfalert.pdf

 

  The Clean Air Act also prohibits anyone from manufacturing, offering for sale, selling,
or installing any part or component that bypasses or defeats emissions controls

 

This means that aftermarket part manufacturers,
sellers, and installers can avoid enforcement
action by having proof before manufacturing,
selling, and installing parts or components that
they will not increase emissions. As noted above,
emissions test results using the same tests used to
certify the applicable vehicle or engine can be
used to demonstrate compliance, or an Executive
Order from CARB demonstrating no increase in
emissions for the intended use of the part.
VIOLATING THE LAW IS COSTLY
Violation of the tampering and defeat device
prohibitions of the Clean Air Act may result in civil
penalties. As of January 13, 2020, a person may
be liable for a maximum civil penalty of $4,819
per defeat device manufactured, sold, or installed,
or per vehicle tampered. A dealer or vehicle
manufacturer who tampers with a vehicle may be
subject to significantly higher civil penalties. Clean
Air Act section 205(a); 40 C.F.R. §19.4. This per
defeat device penalty can add up to a very large
penalty when many such products have been
sold, as, for example, in a recent case against
Performance Diesel, Inc. (see text box)

 

So it's just like I thought, it has nothing to do with tuning for hp/torque it had to do with bypassing emissions which wasn't stated anywhere in the OP.

[TheFatInTheHat]

9 hours ago, akirby said:

Can’t you look it up?

I could but if someone is going to post saying there are statutes they should just post them and just as I suspected the statute had nothing to do with tuning a vehicle it had to do with bypassing emissions.

 

Edited for spelling.

Edited January 28, 2022 by TheFatInTheHat

[bshort]

21 hours ago, TheFatInTheHat said:

 

So in other words you have no clue and are just talking. If there's a statute post the relevant language or quit talking.

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Clean+air+act

 

[bshort]

26 minutes ago, TheFatInTheHat said:

So it's just like I thought, it has nothing to do with tuning for hp/torque it had to do with bypassing emissions which wasn't stated anywhere in the OP.

 

Bit more to the Clean Air Act than that.