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Does Ford have any plans for $4, possible $6/gal fuel?


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2 hours ago, ExplorerDude said:

This situation has triggered a lot of concern in the glass house. This gas crisis caught them way off guard because it happened overnight and hasn’t been building for a long time. If this gets really really bad with gas prices I am a certain they will revisit Fusion/Mondeo and/or Focus for another run in NA. Both sets of vehicles were designed to meet US federal crash requirements. I’ve been told that there already is discussion about some sort of affordable sedan program but not sure the specifics.

 

That would explain the Chinese Mondeo sedan spotted testing here in the US in the past few months. I know car companies do test vehicles in many countries in extreme hot and cold weather conditions as part of their engineering efforts. But it does seem like Ford has been considering bringing the Fusion back here. As for the ongoing microchip shortage, what has become of the Ford/Global Foundries partnership that was announced last November? It's been almost crickets since then. That would certainly help with easing Ford's microchip shortage issues so they can produce and deliver as many hybrids and plug-in hybrids as possible. I know it will take longer than three months (from announcement to today) for the additional chips to be produced and delivered to plants though.
 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/18/ford-partners-with-globalfoundries-to-increase-chip-supplies.html

 

https://gf.com/press-release/globalfoundries-ford-address-auto-chip-supply-and-meet-growing-demand

 

Edited by pffan1990
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4 hours ago, ExplorerDude said:

This situation has triggered a lot of concern in the glass house. This gas crisis caught them way off guard because it happened overnight and hasn’t been building for a long time. If this gets really really bad with gas prices I am a certain they will revisit Fusion/Mondeo and/or Focus for another run in NA. Both sets of vehicles were designed to meet US federal crash requirements. I’ve been told that there already is discussion about some sort of affordable sedan program but not sure the specifics.

Very interesting, it always stuns me how these sort of events always seem to catch organizations off guard. Even if they couldn't predict this current crazy upswing in prices, they had to have known the rising inflation we've been seeing these last few years was going to alter gas prices significantly.

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3 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Very interesting, it always stuns me how these sort of events always seem to catch organizations off guard. Even if they couldn't predict this current crazy upswing in prices, they had to have known the rising inflation we've been seeing these last few years was going to alter gas prices significantly.

They have known that much higher gas prices were coming since the election.....nearly a year and a half ago. I do think Ford thought they would be able to produce way more Mavericks, Escape Hybrids, etc....to fight the rising prices.

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You do realize petroleum products are a worldwide commodity, right! Domestic prices reflect worldwide supply and demand.  When supply was plentiful and  demand lower price goes down , as demand increased , supply becoming limited, price when. Elections impact, none

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1 hour ago, pictor said:

You do realize petroleum products are a worldwide commodity, right! Domestic prices reflect worldwide supply and demand.  When supply was plentiful and  demand lower price goes down , as demand increased , supply becoming limited, price when. Elections impact, none

When the first thing a new President does is sign executive orders canceling the completion of a major pipeline for getting that supply to market and prohibiting exploration and production on Federal lands, that can't be classified as "impact, none."

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This is an interesting conversation with several moving parts. In regards to the economy, the ridiculousness over the past 2 years needs a correction.  We are at the beginning of a recession and bubble burst. Too much free money which promotes unbridled spending, which combined with the pandemic has prices soaring. The housing market needs a reset. Dealers charging 10-20k ADM needs a reset. Credit availability needs a reset. Government handing out "free money" needs a reset.

 

The chip crisis is real but I think "more real" for non Asian carmakers. So until that is resolved, we are going to have somewhat of supply issue. Ford has a pretty respectable plan, the chip crisis and battery supply issues is making it harder to implement. I think basically making a HEV/PHEV bridge to pure BEV makes sense. Sure their trucks can be thirsty, but the F-150 has a hybrid and the 2.7 which get respectable mileage. I do fault Ford their reliance of Asian chip manufactures. Worst case scenario has occurred and they got bit pretty hard.

 

The uproar over $4.00 gas seems to highlight how many people leveraged themselves to the brink.  Gas prices have increased a lot for sure but this should not be OMG, I can't afford to fill up. Americans are good at overreacting and making knee jerk decisions that don't make much financial sense. Banks and dealers are more than happy to accommodate them.

 

I predict this year will be a wild ride. Hold on tight. It's needed though to get back to "normal"....whatever that is.

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Trader 10 said:

So the way to fight high gas prices is to buy a BEV that’s $10 - 15K more expensive than a comparable ICE vehicle? That’s ridiculous. What’s the plan to combat soaring electricity rates?

 

BEV is not $10k - $15k more expensive than a comparable ICE vehicle. 

Examples for Ford in the U.S. market.

  • 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning SCrew XLT 311A Dual Motor SR, MSRP = $54,669 (not including $7,500 federal income tax credit)
  • 2022 Ford F-150 Screw XLT 301A 3.5L gasoline 4x4, MSRP = $52,770
  • 2022 Ford F-150 Screw XLT 301A PowerBoost hybrid 4x4, MSRP = $54,670
  • 2022 Ford E-Transit Cargo Van Low Roof RWD, MSRP = $48,880 (not including $7,500 federal income tax credit)
  • 2022 Ford Transit Cargo Van 3.5L gasoline Low Roof RWD, MSRP = $40,360

Average electricity prices in the U.S. have been much more stable over time compared to gasoline or diesel fuel, so there's no need for a "plan to combat soaring electricity rates". But if that is a concern for you, contact your local utility company or public utility commission in your state.

 

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2 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

This is an interesting conversation with several moving parts. In regards to the economy, the ridiculousness over the past 2 years needs a correction.  We are at the beginning of a recession and bubble burst. Too much free money which promotes unbridled spending, which combined with the pandemic has prices soaring. The housing market needs a reset. Dealers charging 10-20k ADM needs a reset. Credit availability needs a reset. Government handing out "free money" needs a reset.

 

The chip crisis is real but I think "more real" for non Asian carmakers. So until that is resolved, we are going to have somewhat of supply issue. Ford has a pretty respectable plan, the chip crisis and battery supply issues is making it harder to implement. I think basically making a HEV/PHEV bridge to pure BEV makes sense. Sure their trucks can be thirsty, but the F-150 has a hybrid and the 2.7 which get respectable mileage. I do fault Ford their reliance of Asian chip manufactures. Worst case scenario has occurred and they got bit pretty hard.

 

The uproar over $4.00 gas seems to highlight how many people leveraged themselves to the brink.  Gas prices have increased a lot for sure but this should not be OMG, I can't afford to fill up. Americans are good at overreacting and making knee jerk decisions that don't make much financial sense. Banks and dealers are more than happy to accommodate them.

 

I predict this year will be a wild ride. Hold on tight. It's needed though to get back to "normal"....whatever that is.

 

 

 

 

Good God, I feel like this is the middle/end of a recession that kicked off under the lockdowns. I pray this isn't the beginning. 

 

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28 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Good God, I feel like this is the middle/end of a recession that kicked off under the lockdowns. I pray this isn't the beginning. 

 

 

Most really didn't get to feel the pain. Free money loans (so much fraud), government checks (so much fraud), economy wasn't doing bad, and most people were spending like crazy (those that were working). It's like we delayed the effects of the pandemic. Now that interest rates are skyrocketing, no more handouts, inflation through the roof, and now gas prices are acting like unstable gas prices. All this and now we have a volatile world climate that, if things go terribly, the US could get dragged into. 

 

They don't want to say it on Bloomberg or CNBC but the reality is the future for the US economy isn't going up right now. Talking to economists in my office yesterday, Q3-Q4 this year could be really bad. Now are the wrong sometimes? Sure, but I'd expect things to be really volatile for a while.

Edited by jcartwright99
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3 hours ago, jcartwright99 said:

This is an interesting conversation with several moving parts. In regards to the economy, the ridiculousness over the past 2 years needs a correction.  We are at the beginning of a recession and bubble burst. Too much free money which promotes unbridled spending, which combined with the pandemic has prices soaring. The housing market needs a reset. Dealers charging 10-20k ADM needs a reset. Credit availability needs a reset. Government handing out "free money" needs a reset.

 

The chip crisis is real but I think "more real" for non Asian carmakers. So until that is resolved, we are going to have somewhat of supply issue. Ford has a pretty respectable plan, the chip crisis and battery supply issues is making it harder to implement. I think basically making a HEV/PHEV bridge to pure BEV makes sense. Sure their trucks can be thirsty, but the F-150 has a hybrid and the 2.7 which get respectable mileage. I do fault Ford their reliance of Asian chip manufactures. Worst case scenario has occurred and they got bit pretty hard.

 

The uproar over $4.00 gas seems to highlight how many people leveraged themselves to the brink.  Gas prices have increased a lot for sure but this should not be OMG, I can't afford to fill up. Americans are good at overreacting and making knee jerk decisions that don't make much financial sense. Banks and dealers are more than happy to accommodate them.

 

I predict this year will be a wild ride. Hold on tight. It's needed though to get back to "normal"....whatever that is.

 

 

 

 

 

I figure there are a few of us on here that have been through these oil shocks many times before. So far, this is a mild one in that gas stations have plenty of gas with no long lines. Not like that back in the 70's when many gas stations had no gas and those that did had long lines and 5 gallon limits. Those were the days. If you live long enough, you see it all and more. 

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8 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

BEV is not $10k - $15k more expensive than a comparable ICE vehicle. 

Examples for Ford in the U.S. market.

  • 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning SCrew XLT 311A Dual Motor SR, MSRP = $54,669 (not including $7,500 federal income tax credit)
  • 2022 Ford F-150 Screw XLT 301A 3.5L gasoline 4x4, MSRP = $52,770
  • 2022 Ford F-150 Screw XLT 301A PowerBoost hybrid 4x4, MSRP = $54,670
  • 2022 Ford E-Transit Cargo Van Low Roof RWD, MSRP = $48,880 (not including $7,500 federal income tax credit)
  • 2022 Ford Transit Cargo Van 3.5L gasoline Low Roof RWD, MSRP = $40,360

Average electricity prices in the U.S. have been much more stable over time compared to gasoline or diesel fuel, so there's no need for a "plan to combat soaring electricity rates". But if that is a concern for you, contact your local utility company or public utility commission in your state.

 

You’re quoting the F150 standard range battery which, i believe is rated max 230 miles of range. 

F150 with the extended range battery that most will need is $72,474.

Lariat w/extended range is $77,474. 

A loaded Titanium all wheel drive Escape is right at $40,000

The Mach E model with extended range battery is about $56K (not available until the 23 model)

Soaring was a bit hyperbolic, but electrical rates are rising at a faster pace than inflation. How much more will BEV owners be hit with in taxes as states and the federal government replace lost revenue from the lack of gasoline sales? As increasing numbers of BEV’s access the grid, rates are almost certain to go higher.

I don’t think my contacting my local utility company or public utility commission will help stem rising rates but if you have an argument that works, I’m all ears. 

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9 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

I figure there are a few of us on here that have been through these oil shocks many times before. So far, this is a mild one in that gas stations have plenty of gas with no long lines. Not like that back in the 70's when many gas stations had no gas and those that did had long lines and 5 gallon limits. Those were the days. If you live long enough, you see it all and more. 

Yep so far an easy one.  At least fuels are available.  We went from a 400 ci Chevy Wagon to a Corolla Wagon. Everything fuel efficient got 20 to 22 mpg.  

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Back in the mid to late 2000s, Bill Ford recommended increasing the gasoline/diesel excise tax in the U.S., and also putting a floor on fuel prices (dynamically adjusting those excise taxes so that overall fuel prices don't go below a certain level) to make them more stable over time. Quote below is from 2009. Bill Ford: Gas tax, please. | Green Wombat (thegreenwombat.com)

 

Ford, who said he had been considered “something of a Bolshevik” in the auto industry for his early embrace of electric cars, said Detroit needs a floor under gasoline prices so it can make investments in alternative fuel vehicles.

“The worst thing for us is instability,” he said. “We need a much more stable planning horizon. That’s not just true for gasoline but for any fuel we use.”

Ford noted that when he joined the Ford board two decades ago he was told to stop “consorting” with suspected environmentalists. Times have changed in the car business.

"We haven’t had a lot of revolutions but boy are we now. I love it."

 

Maybe Bill Ford and Jim Farley will revisit gasoline/diesel price floor policy recommendations to federal and state governments with the fuel price volatility going on nowadays. 

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On 3/8/2022 at 9:31 PM, Trader 10 said:

So the way to fight high gas prices is to buy a BEV that’s $10 - 15K more expensive than a comparable ICE vehicle? That’s ridiculous. What’s the plan to combat soaring electricity rates?

Hydrogen fuel cells.

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17 hours ago, Trader 10 said:

You’re quoting the F150 standard range battery which, i believe is rated max 230 miles of range. 

F150 with the extended range battery that most will need is $72,474.

Lariat w/extended range is $77,474. 

A loaded Titanium all wheel drive Escape is right at $40,000

The Mach E model with extended range battery is about $56K (not available until the 23 model)

Soaring was a bit hyperbolic, but electrical rates are rising at a faster pace than inflation. How much more will BEV owners be hit with in taxes as states and the federal government replace lost revenue from the lack of gasoline sales? As increasing numbers of BEV’s access the grid, rates are almost certain to go higher.

I don’t think my contacting my local utility company or public utility commission will help stem rising rates but if you have an argument that works, I’m all ears. 

 

I've seen lots of articles where commercial charging stations charge more than filling a tank with gas. So while it is cheaper to charge at home, that doesn't apply to commercial charging stations. But I get it, it's more about carbon emissions and dirty fossil fuel, not cost. When I see a Tesla, owner probably came from an MB, BMW, or some other luxury vehicle.

 

Hasn't been proven yet that working class will buy an expensive BEV. Will be interesting to see if Ford will compete against a $30,000 Equinox BEV when most Escape plugins go for at least $35,000+ and very difficult to find. However, still don't believe GM can produce Equinox BEV for that price in meaningful numbers. Doors may be optional. 

 

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40 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

Hasn't been proven yet that working class will buy an expensive BEV. 

 

That's true FordBuyer. Working class people don't usually buy new vehicles, and that probably won't change with BEV even though Jim Farley said that Ford is committed to building BEV at lower price points than Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightning nowadays. Typical arrangements for working class are going to the used car market, sharing vehicles with family/friends, and using public transportation (where available and applicable). 

 

A good future opportunity for Ford is developing a set of consumer mobility services like robotaxi and delivery. Ford/Argo AI is already piloting services like these. Get the price point and service quality right, and it should attract lots of working class people particularly in urban areas. 

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6 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Back in the mid to late 2000s, Bill Ford recommended increasing the gasoline/diesel excise tax in the U.S., and also putting a floor on fuel prices (dynamically adjusting those excise taxes so that overall fuel prices don't go below a certain level) to make them more stable over time. Quote below is from 2009. Bill Ford: Gas tax, please. | Green Wombat (thegreenwombat.com)

 

 

 

 

Maybe Bill Ford and Jim Farley will revisit gasoline/diesel price floor policy recommendations to federal and state governments with the fuel price volatility going on nowadays. 

Bill Ford Jr. Is an elitist. If gas goes to $10 a gallon he doesn't care because the company is paying for it.  Ford has been steadily loosing market share under his leadership while he travels in carbon spewing private jets and lives in mansions that take up a large "carbon footprint ". It

Pis easy for him to say the "little guy" can pay for these politically correct woke programs while they struggle to make ends meet.  

Edited by Footballfan
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If these fuel prices (or higher) stick around, does Ford have any Asian/South American/East Euro ICE vehicles that would be a small-lift to Federalize, and that could be imported to at least offer some fuel efficient gasoline-based options?

 

-Ovaltine

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Ovaltine said:

If these fuel prices (or higher) stick around, does Ford have any Asian/South American/East Euro ICE vehicles that would be a small-lift to Federalize, and that could be imported to at least offer some fuel efficient gasoline-based options?

 

In the grand scheme of things we are more or less at that point with almost all of Fords products (maybe outside of the Bronco)
 

mpggraph.gif

 

Once you hit 25 MPG, your savings are pretty flat, even going to 55 MPG.

 

So figure your doing 25 MPG and go to 35 MPG...that is roughly a savings of 100 gallons or $500 bucks over the course of a year at 5 dollar a gallon gas, which works out to like an extra $5 a week. 

 

The issue is gas pricing more psychological then anything else...yeah it sucks, but also if you can't come up with extra money to cover it, you might want to revaluate things too. 

 

Not to mention buying a fuel efficient car or a BEV isn't exactly a smart move financially either if the one you have is paid off already or don't need to replace it. 

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On 3/9/2022 at 10:46 AM, jcartwright99 said:

 

Most really didn't get to feel the pain. Free money loans (so much fraud), government checks (so much fraud), economy wasn't doing bad, and most people were spending like crazy (those that were working). It's like we delayed the effects of the pandemic. Now that interest rates are skyrocketing, no more handouts, inflation through the roof, and now gas prices are acting like unstable gas prices. All this and now we have a volatile world climate that, if things go terribly, the US could get dragged into. 

 

They don't want to say it on Bloomberg or CNBC but the reality is the future for the US economy isn't going up right now. Talking to economists in my office yesterday, Q3-Q4 this year could be really bad. Now are the wrong sometimes? Sure, but I'd expect things to be really volatile for a while.

 

If we want inflation to moderate and hopefully go back own, then demand will have to abate significantly, because supply issues will take longer to fix. 

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19 hours ago, Footballfan said:

Bill Ford Jr. Is an elitist. If gas goes to $10 a gallon he doesn't care because the company is paying for it.  Ford has been steadily loosing market share under his leadership while he travels in carbon spewing private jets and lives in mansions that take up a large "carbon footprint ". It

Pis easy for him to say the "little guy" can pay for these politically correct woke programs while they struggle to make ends meet.  


His proposal wouldn’t work for a number of reasons but what he was proposing was something like budget billing with the power company.  You pay the same rate every month even though your actual cost fluctuates season to season.  Makes it easier to budget.  With gas prices fluctuating it causes rapid changes in consumer buying preferences and makes it hard for mfrs to predict demand.  More stable prices means more predictable demand.  We may see something similar with BEVs and Electricity costs down the road.

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Aussie fuel prices..

My local servo west of Brisbane is US$6.04/ gal ($Aus$2.21/ liter) for 91 RON 

and US $6.64/gal (Aus$2.43/liter) for 98 RON 


So 15.78 gallons (60litres) of 98 in anything that needs it is now $104.97 (AUS $145.80).

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