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Ford to sell vehicles without features enabled


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20 minutes ago, akirby said:


You picked a bad time to order…..

I'm locked in to the time of my birth and the support coming in from family to make this happen. I'll just breathe deeply and remind myself to be happy it's happening at all, and at least I didn't want a full size Bronco. 

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18 minutes ago, akirby said:


You picked a bad time to order…..

 

With interest rates headed up, maybe a good time if you can find something on the lot that you can live with. Looks like 0% loan rates have limited life span as fed raises rates every other month. Six more rate hikes coming this year unless economy caves. Ford Credit just reported that very few customers are paying cash since they are giving free money basically. With the average new vehicle now costing $45,000 and rising quickly, rising loan rates will hurt for those who have finance.

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5 hours ago, akirby said:


That works both ways.  If dealers were more honest and not adding last minute markups and hidden fees or charging unsuspecting customers 2x for an extended warranty and not giving customers easily accessed order and shipping information and pretending not to know about price protection or incentive protection etc etc etc then maybe Ford wouldn’t feel the need to change things.

 

Dealers are used to competing with the Chevy dealer down the street, not Tesla or Rivian or other BEV specialists.  
 

Does Ford do bad and/or stupid things to dealers?  Of course.  Squeezing them on warranty labor, forcing them to take unwanted inventory.  But like you said they need each other.  But the model needs to change.

 

Customers should be able to order a vehicle online, pay MSRP and a standardized doc fee, have it scheduled immediately or put in queue by order date. Dealer gets paid a set fee or a set percentage for each sale.   Dealer delivers the vehicle and gets the trade-ins, financing, warranty and ongoing maintenance.

 

That is a win/win for everyone including the dealer, especially considering the normal pre Covid selling prices were closer to dealer invoice not MSRP.

get back to me on Tesla service, and Rivian...what track record exactly do they have, they are in their infancy...Tesla for one borders on absolutely shockingly bad. Understand where you are coming from, but by blanketing that statement you are inferring all dealers are the same...once again the onus of any issue you are laying at the feet of Dealers...completely understand that as Ive seen some of those practices first hand. Ill go out on a limb here...basically EVERYTHING Ford corporate has attempted to put their input/ fingerprint on regarding the Sales process has been disastrous....if you can name one single improvement they have made, I lay money on being able to counter that...also, from first hand experience...they are continually attempting to fix process's that arent broken, and those decisions are being made by people that have ZERO experience on the front lines...ZERO...they should be forced to literally deal with their "improvements" first hand...honesty, some of the "better ways of doing things" have done nothing but dismally backfire....The Car business is quirky for sure, and has its warts...but Im not 100% convinced its the only business run in that manner....should the Housing industry be run in the same manner you suggest?...business's are run for profitability unfortunately..not sure that will ever change...if theres an avenue to make more revenue it will be taken when it can..sorry if that's long winded..

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6 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Thanks for sharing your experience on the "front line" Deanh.

 

Do you think that Jim Farley's proposals cracking down on things like dealer markups on vehicles will be combined with more and better support to dealers from Ford corporate to help dealers with things like communication to the public, assisting customers with retail orders, reservations, vehicle tracking, etc.? 

they need to stop interfering with the sales process completely...and their assistance is anything but good on a 1 to 1 basis with customers....case in point...I have a customer that ordered a Maverick Hybrid, a Bronco...and a Lightning. He called Ford directly regarding what was taking so long with his Maverick...this was 3 weeks ago....he was told it would be at least another 6 months...he took delivery last week...SAME guy called on his Bronco order, directly to Ford....he was given a vin number....IT WASNT HIS. And whats going to happen with his Lightning?...LMAO...as Fords doing that direct....I don't want Fords help in the slightest, those are just  a couple of cases with ONE customer...now imagine if they start dealing with all of them...pure comedy. Heres the problem...THEY ( Ford ) have no vested interest and their "service " is probably a Clerk on minimum wage...me...that's my entire livelihood...who do you think will go the extra mile? ..especially given 95% of my business is repeat!

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You don’t think you need to compete with the Tesla sales experience?  That’s the legacy mindset that has to change and I think that’s a big factor in the new BEV division.   
 

And I guarantee that Ford EV will have a new dedicated tracking system and staff.  They have to because that’s what the competition will have.  The current system was designed for 95% stock orders.

 

But I have to ask Dean - why did your customers feel the need to call Ford if you were giving them regular accurate status updates?  

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My coworker ordered a Tesla the day after I ordered my Bronco Sport. He got a delivery timeline as soon as he ordered it. I don't even know if I'll have a build week scheduled before he has delivery. Also, the car he ordered is his and no intermediary will sell it out from under him or charge a "market adjustment" that prices him out of it. Sure, there's scale that factors into it, but come on. 

1 hour ago, akirby said:

And by the way I understand why you don’t like this change, but the old sales model needs to change.

 

Edited by thekingprawn
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13 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

This is a great idea. Jonathan Ramsey's article yesterday mentioned that Jim Farley and other Ford executives are working with dealers to help meet corporate goals for an improved customer experience, hopefully to include something like the online ordering and pricing model you described. This should help improve relations between Ford corporate and the dealership body overall too. Ford's reorganization means specialization everywhere (msn.com)

 

 

 

 

I don't understand the idea of forcing dealerships to choose "Ford Blue" or "Ford Model E" or "Ford Pro" exclusively.  Seems like that'd be forcing dealers to artificially limit themselves (and by extension cause fewer sales if various dealers don't sell all models......now customer Joe wanting a Mach E has to go 30 miles out of the way because the dealer down the street doesn't sell Ford Model E models, and only sells Ford Blue models?   I get some of that happens now, but the industry is in transition, so it does make some sense that not every dealer may be equipped to sell/service EV models, but it sounds like they're talking about limiting dealers to one of the 3 silos?

 

Unless I'm misunderstanding and they can opt into any combo of the 3 (or fewer if they desire).

Edited by rmc523
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5 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

I don't understand the idea of forcing dealerships to choose "Ford Blue" or "Ford Model E" or "Ford Pro" exclusively.  Seems like that'd be forcing dealers to artificially limit themselves (and by extension cause fewer sales if various dealers don't sell all models......now customer Joe wanting a Mach E has to go 30 miles out of the way because the dealer down the street doesn't sell Ford Model E models, and only sells Ford Blue models?   I get some of that happens now, but the industry is in transition, so it does make some sense that not every dealer may be equipped to sell/service EV models, but it sounds like they're talking about limiting dealers to one of the 3 silos?

 

The other way to look at it is that this way-more rural dealerships will sell less or no BEVs due to people's range hesitation with them (currently). So they won't invest in charging stations/etc that are needed to support BEVs

 

Areas that are more affluent are often more built up will invest the money into Ford Model E because the demand is there. I have about half dozen Ford dealerships with in 30 minute drive from my house and I know for a fact that at least 3 of them already have charging stations for the MME installed. So going with this thinking-current MME owners won't have an issue like your talking about and future ones should be ok (I do realize there will be outliers) since the dealerships will already be invested or investing in BEV support. 

Plus I don't think that all dealerships will or have to do all three-some will just have Ford Blue and Model E, while mega/large dealerships will do all three. The sales team at the dealership might be divided up to specialize more, but they already have fleet, Bronco, etc sales people who take care of those products now.

 

 

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6 hours ago, rmc523 said:

Unless I'm misunderstanding and they can opt into any combo of the 3 (or fewer if they desire).

 

I think that Mr. Ramsey's article meant that dealers can choose any combination of Ford Model E (BEV & advanced technologies such as AV), Ford Blue (ICE vehicles for retail consumers), and Ford Pro (fleet vehicles and services).

 

The expectation is that as Ford's U.S. vehicle lineup becomes 100% electric, dealers who currently choose Ford Blue only will either opt in to Ford Model E and/or Ford Pro, or terminate their franchise agreements.

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On 3/15/2022 at 12:04 PM, Deanh said:

heres whats funny about that...its not the Dealers fault...and they, the Dealer , in this market could just tell the customer to pound sand, it could then  be sold for an awful lot more than the mentioned X plan..Dealer owes this client absolutely NOTHING, zip, nada ZILCH...he wants compensation, take it up with Ford corporate and utilize the same "bully like" leverage tactics  and get back to us on how that goes.,,,, Friggen hilarious customers think dealers owe them anything with all these manufacturing delays and build compromises...and THIS type of attitude gets absolutely no results in todays buying climate. If , I was the customer Id literally pump the brakes a little, so easy to say " Fine, well sell it to someone else " when demand exceeds supply...

  Wow. Okay. Jeeze. I was thinking more in the lines the dealer would be reimbursed from Ford.  And it was meant as a somewhat humorous response given the price of oil changes for a 6.7. Put the knife down.....

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36 minutes ago, lcseds said:

  Wow. Okay. Jeeze. I was thinking more in the lines the dealer would be reimbursed from Ford.  And it was meant as a somewhat humorous response given the price of oil changes for a 6.7. Put the knife down.....

 

You must be joking! Ford does everything possible not to pay or reimburse Dealers for legitimate claims, etc. 

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20 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Unfortunately, if the final sale is handled by a dealer, there will still be those willing to take advantage and abuse the customer.  All we can hope for is that there is sufficient competition in the marketplace to give consumers a choice in what they purchase.  I may have 30 years of "buying Ford", but I'm not going to pay a premium to do so.

 

HRG

Unfortunately, the problem is diminished competition in larger metro areas. Publicly traded dealer organizations and other multi-rooftop principals control the lion's share of franchises within the manufacturer's zones. Just enough difference to avoid major price fixing and collusion issues.

20 hours ago, akirby said:


Maybe when you place your order and choose your dealer it can show you their Google rating…..

The efficacy of these surveys is becoming artificial, IMO. I have a great dealer whom I've bought or leased four new vehicles from since 2014 and have both of my current ones serviced there almost exclusively. The only problem I have with them is that every visit, whether for service, parts or vehicle purchase triggers an email request (and two more "Did you forget?" reminders if I don't respond), for a survey completion thru Google or DealerRater.com. even for just a Quicklane oil change or a $50 accessory. I think this practice dilutes the reason for surveying.

"We have a 4.99 rating with over X,000 responses!!" Wow. I wouldn't have expected so many people could gush about an oil change for over 25 words.

 

 

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9 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

I don't understand the idea of forcing dealerships to choose "Ford Blue" or "Ford Model E" or "Ford Pro" exclusively.  Seems like that'd be forcing dealers to artificially limit themselves (and by extension cause fewer sales if various dealers don't sell all models......now customer Joe wanting a Mach E has to go 30 miles out of the way because the dealer down the street doesn't sell Ford Model E models, and only sells Ford Blue models?   I get some of that happens now, but the industry is in transition, so it does make some sense that not every dealer may be equipped to sell/service EV models, but it sounds like they're talking about limiting dealers to one of the 3 silos?

 

Unless I'm misunderstanding and they can opt into any combo of the 3 (or fewer if they desire).

 

I believe Ford requires a sizable investment to sell and service BEVs. Many smaller,  family owned dealerships will probably opt out of that investment and stick with ICE vehicles. As stated, most rural dealers sell mostly pickups and not willing to spend the required amount to sell and service BEVs. So over the next 15 years or so many Ford dealerships will leave the scene. Mostly mega dealers will be left. 

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15 hours ago, akirby said:

You don’t think you need to compete with the Tesla sales experience?  That’s the legacy mindset that has to change and I think that’s a big factor in the new BEV division.   
 

And I guarantee that Ford EV will have a new dedicated tracking system and staff.  They have to because that’s what the competition will have.  The current system was designed for 95% stock orders.

 

But I have to ask Dean - why did your customers feel the need to call Ford if you were giving them regular accurate status updates?  

based on feed back from several tesla owners that have traded their vehicles in...not at all...not in the slightest, that said, BEV buyers are a whole different breed COMPLETELY, and Ill just say it...EXTREMELY high maintenence....As for the reason consumers feel the need to call Ford directly is that is where the information is initiated...all I can relay is what FORD supplies me, I can only be as accurate as the information Im supplied......and 99% of the time its grossly inaccurate, or changes from one week to another....the whole Bronco roll out and ordering process is a supreme example of how badly a process can be managed...should I bring up the Maverick?...The Bronco Sport?...the Mach E?....Lightning is next....and all of those issues can be laid solely at the feet of corporates influence and "need" to feel the need to put their own fingerprints and leverage on the process....it may / may not get better...but right now the process is an absolute joke... the next few years will be interesting, its becoming increasingly obvious Ford wants more control over the whole process...so far Id give it a 3 out of 10.

Edited by Deanh
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2 hours ago, lcseds said:

  Wow. Okay. Jeeze. I was thinking more in the lines the dealer would be reimbursed from Ford.  And it was meant as a somewhat humorous response given the price of oil changes for a 6.7. Put the knife down.....

no knife...reality...don't take your issues out with the Dealer, your issues are with the Manufacturer...you want re-imbursement...take it up with them...we see this crap all the time...right now it doesn't work...and frankly rather annoying...its like a kid in the corner holding his breath till he gets his way...understand its a branch of human nature and maybe, maybe  someone will bend...sorry to sound crotchety, but some of the crap we are expected to tolerate, at least to me, borders on unacceptable...entitlement is one of them... 

Edited by Deanh
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16 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


I think you're being incredibly over-optimistic 

Id err on adding a year to that...Im already I think 18 months into my Bronco order and still no vin.....and now F150s are being held at the plant for chips, I have Transits ordered as 21s that flipped to 22's ...still with no vins going on 10 months...I have Mavericks that were ordered first thing...no vins when they were initially told October 2021...Transit Connects...6 -7 months turnaround...and that's being generous...Mach E's 24 week wait MINIMUM...2022 ordering closed for Broncos with advanced 4x4, Transits, Mavericks...and soon to be others..and no 2023 ordering guides released for said units yet....sheesh...I missed my calling as a Motivational Speaker....sorry..just jaded with all the constant BS.

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37 minutes ago, Deanh said:

no knife...reality...don't take your issues out with the Dealer, your issues are with the Manufacturer...you want re-imbursement...take it up with them...we see this crap all the time...right now it doesn't work...and frankly rather annoying...its like a kid in the corner holding his breath till he gets his way...understand its a branch of human nature and maybe, maybe  someone will bend...sorry to sound crotchety, but some of the crap we are expected to tolerate, at least to me, borders on unacceptable...entitlement is one of them... 

 

I'll stop here. But if you look at the posts, it was not me suggesting oil changes to begin with. I made a tongue-in-cheek reply to the poster that DID suggest the oil changes as compensation. You're beefing with the wrong person. I never suggested that I would want it or ask for it. I didn't suggest it, nor did I imply I would seek compensation FOR ANYTHING. Enough already, go chew out the poster that suggested it. Yes, it is crotchety, angry actually, because you didn't reply to the person suggesting it in the first place. I am not THAT guy regarding entitlement.

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28 minutes ago, lcseds said:

 

I'll stop here. But if you look at the posts, it was not me suggesting oil changes to begin with. I made a tongue-in-cheek reply to the poster that DID suggest the oil changes as compensation. You're beefing with the wrong person. I never suggested that I would want it or ask for it. I didn't suggest it, nor did I imply I would seek compensation FOR ANYTHING. Enough already, go chew out the poster that suggested it. Yes, it is crotchety, angry actually, because you didn't reply to the person suggesting it in the first place. I am not THAT guy regarding entitlement.

no biggie, and no beef...just straight unfiltered reality

...I also recall who the original poster was..and yes it seemed you were encouraging the guy, if that's incorrect I apologize. 

Edited by Deanh
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