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Fallacy of Electrics


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3 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

If you are talking about the article on FA, it will be interesting to see if Pulte actually starts building houses with garages deep enough to fit a Lightning,,,,,,

 

HRG

 

The pictures show an outlet on the front of the house and the house must be set up electrically to accept the energy from the Lightning and give it. It actually shows the truck in the driveway with a fancy outlet on the front of the house next to garage door. No more getting extensive electrical upgrades to house to accept BEV. Houses of future will come with all the electrical upgrades.

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59 minutes ago, akirby said:


My garage fits my F150 with about 2 inches to spare front and rear.  Mine was built 4 years ago.  Of course it depends on the plan.

 

Around here they offer enlarged 2 car garages for those who like to putter around in one and/or park a pickup inside. Also have outlets on both walls and upgrade to a 220 costs about $300. No way could I get a F150 in my standard size 2 car garage. It may barely fit, but then couldn't move around it to get stuff which would be deal breaker. The Escape fits nicely in garage with easy movement around it when parked inside. 

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3 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

Just read an article about future houses to be built in next 5 to 10 years. All show a Lightning parked in driveway plugged into outlet supplying energy to the house. You bet Ford is pushing and will be pushing this concept. 

I just read an article on how houses are becoming unaffordable and that's the reason we see so much High Density Apartment buildings built....then again, it was So Cal centric....

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1 hour ago, Deanh said:

I just read an article on how houses are becoming unaffordable and that's the reason we see so much High Density Apartment buildings built....then again, it was So Cal centric....

 

FL is getting unaffordable too, but not as bad as CA. But Miami is more like CA. I know I couldn't afford to buy my house now after the huge run up in prices over the last 18 months or so. Affordability has grown into a huge problem. Just about every big Metro area is grappling with the problem. You have to own a house to keep up with the price increases. First time buyers face huge challenges. Renting can't be much fun either when lease is up. Guess it will take a 2008 like Recession to make homes affordable again. I still remember so many walking away from their mortgages back then. 

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3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Isn't everything in SoCal unaffordable unless you’re ultra rich? 

we just sold a house id owned since 1993...I seriously don't know how people can afford a new home here...what it went for was plain stupid...thankfully we made enough to pay a house we had as a rental completely off....now all we have to deal with is property taxes and insurance...and even that's somewhat steep if you ask me...My neighbor nailed it...with the prices of housing here right now, say goodbye to the middle class...and the richer get richer..amazing how many complexes are being erected for rental apartments as no one can afford the housing...and that said  rents are asinine as well.

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42 minutes ago, Deanh said:

we just sold a house id owned since 1993...I seriously don't know how people can afford a new home here...what it went for was plain stupid...thankfully we made enough to pay a house we had as a rental completely off....now all we have to deal with is property taxes and insurance...and even that's somewhat steep if you ask me...My neighbor nailed it...with the prices of housing here right now, say goodbye to the middle class...and the richer get richer..amazing how many complexes are being erected for rental apartments as no one can afford the housing...and that said  rents are asinine as well.


My wife and I were just talking about this an hour ago. I believe we have to be getting close to a bubble with a lot of things, namely real estate and new car prices. Speaking with a lot of my older relatives there's a LOT of comparisons being made to the late 70s right now. Selfishly I hope real estate values fall in the next few years, I want to buy some land. 

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I was able to park my '02 F-150 (standard cab, 8ft bed) in the garage the other day.  Of course my garage is 24 ft deep so I had a bit of room to spare.  As far as plugs in the garage, I wouldn't be surprised to see the NEC updated in the next couple of years to mandate at least one 240v/50amp plug in every garage.  I don't think they will require anything larger, at least in the next 20 years. 

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8 hours ago, Flying68 said:

As far as plugs in the garage, I wouldn't be surprised to see the NEC updated in the next couple of years to mandate at least one 240v/50amp plug in every garage.  I don't think they will require anything larger, at least in the next 20 years.


For new construction, maybe. It would be ridiculous for them to expect everyone to install one in existing garages. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


For new construction, maybe. It would be ridiculous for them to expect everyone to install one in existing garages. 

 

 

NEC isn't retro active, so unless you do a major remodel, you don't have to update to the latest code.  They have had exceptions though for major safety items, like if you had an old house with knob and tube, and wanted to do anything electrical wise, you were required by code to update to modern NM wire.  When I finished my basement, 2 years after we built the house, the NEC had updated so I was required to wire the basement per the new code, but didn't have to change anything upstairs.

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Even if the code was updated it would probably only apply to 200 amp or higher service, etc and local codes could be different.

 

On second thought, do they even build new houses with less than 200 amp service?

 

One bad part of the code is requiring all outlets in a garage to be GFCI.  My 4th garage is a dedicated workshop and large power tools don’t always work with GFCI because of the start capacitor in the motor.  Had to swap mine for non GFCI.  Some sparkies say they have to install all arc fault and GFCI breakers for inspection, take them out for the workers to finish their work then put them back in for final.  It’s a good idea from a safety perspective but drives up the cost and causes issues.

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BTW I just had an argument on Facebook (shocking, right) where a GFCI breaker was tripping on a power tool and the advice was to change it for a regular breaker.   Guy says it’s really easy to change a breaker.  I said it’s slightly harder to do it without electrocuting yourself and he just kept arguing that it was easy and anyone could do it.  200 amps and 240V will kill you and the guy asking the question clearly didn’t know enough to be inside the panel swapping breakers.  

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12 hours ago, Flying68 said:

I was able to park my '02 F-150 (standard cab, 8ft bed) in the garage the other day.  Of course my garage is 24 ft deep so I had a bit of room to spare.  As far as plugs in the garage, I wouldn't be surprised to see the NEC updated in the next couple of years to mandate at least one 240v/50amp plug in every garage.  I don't think they will require anything larger, at least in the next 20 years. 

 

I would think it will be more about competition and advertising. With so many new BEVs being announced every month, home buyers will be looking for easy, fast charging in their garages. Even on used homes, there will be a push to upgrade your garage for BEV as to make your house more desirable to new owner. Now if gas stays above $4 for years, then this will happen much quicker than if gas goes under $3 again for long period. In fact, I will probably upgrade my 2 garage outlets even though I have no plans to use them. Teslas and ID4s are all over the place around here. 

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35 minutes ago, FordBuyer said:

 In fact, I will probably upgrade my 2 garage outlets even though I have no plans to use them. Teslas and ID4s are all over the place around here. 

 

Last year, I needed to run a new line out to my garage to feed an electric garage heater, so I decided to up-size the conduit and ran #6 to add a 14-50R outlet, which I may never use/need. But, at least it's there in the event a guest needs it, or this house is sold.  Copper ain't getting any cheaper, so I'm glad I did it when I did.

 

HRG

BEV outlet 14-50R.JPG

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On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2022 at 3:50 PM, fuzzymoomoo said:


My wife and I were just talking about this an hour ago. I believe we have to be getting close to a bubble with a lot of things, namely real estate and new car prices. Speaking with a lot of my older relatives there's a LOT of comparisons being made to the late 70s right now. Selfishly I hope real estate values fall in the next few years, I want to buy some land. 

Thankfully Im relatively conservative $ wise ( well Stereo gear aside I guess, but that's pretty much done now ) I agree...the bubbles about to pop, no way around it with ever increasing costs...land is a good thing...good luck buddy. 

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3 hours ago, Deanh said:

Thankfully Im relatively conservative $ wise ( well Stereo gear aside I guess, but that's pretty much done now ) I agree...the bubbles about to pop, no way around it with ever increasing costs...land is a good thing...good luck buddy. 

I know I'm going to take a lot of heat with this but I feel EVs are a bubble.  Everyone is adding new plants and adding to overcapacity.  Kind of reminds me of the same issues we had with it at the turn of this century. ? 

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38 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

I know I'm going to take a lot of heat with this but I feel EVs are a bubble.  Everyone is adding new plants and adding to overcapacity.  Kind of reminds me of the same issues we had with it at the turn of this century. ? 

Kind of reminds me what happened under Mulally when Ford realised that it could do away with 14 plants….

Not too long ago, GM closed down four UAW plants and moved a ton of production to Mexico in the form of new Utilities, the changes have been going on right before our very eyes. Once you guys make the connection you’ll realise that it’s already too late for many to switch jobs/locations.

 

My concern is that Farley is now rushing things and while that’s a breath of fresh air after years of stagnation, it could also  mean that Ford is rushing to lock in  incorrect battery technology which could be the next major blunder.

Edited by jpd80
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1 hour ago, Footballfan said:

I know I'm going to take a lot of heat with this but I feel EVs are a bubble.  Everyone is adding new plants and adding to overcapacity.  Kind of reminds me of the same issues we had with it at the turn of this century. ? 

like the anoalogy..me< id go so far as to say the popularity is due to being constantly barraged by people with vested interests promoting them as the next messiah....its propaganda 101....you get told something often enough you actually start believing it....media has utilized this game plan since day 1...hate to go political, but if the crap they pulled prior to the last election wasn't considered "meddling" then nothing is...

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2 hours ago, Footballfan said:

I know I'm going to take a lot of heat with this but I feel EVs are a bubble.  Everyone is adding new plants and adding to overcapacity.  Kind of reminds me of the same issues we had with it at the turn of this century. ? 


 

 

33 minutes ago, Deanh said:

like the anoalogy..me< id go so far as to say the popularity is due to being constantly barraged by people with vested interests promoting them as the next messiah....its propaganda 101....you get told something often enough you actually start believing it....media has utilized this game plan since day 1...hate to go political, but if the crap they pulled prior to the last election wasn't considered "meddling" then nothing is...

 

 

There is absolutely a lot of over hype with BEVs but they’re also absolutely in demand by a subset of buyers and that will continue to grow as more vehicles are available and technology improves.  Being able to refuel at home, not deal with smelly gasoline pumps or high prices, no exhaust fumes, oil changes, coolant leaks in addition to the tech improvements and performance makes BEVs very appealing to some people.

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1 hour ago, Deanh said:

like the anoalogy..me< id go so far as to say the popularity is due to being constantly barraged by people with vested interests promoting them as the next messiah....its propaganda 101....you get told something often enough you actually start believing it....media has utilized this game plan since day 1...hate to go political, but if the crap they pulled prior to the last election wasn't considered "meddling" then nothing is...

I think that a lot of this hype and embracing of EVs was predicated on Bidens Build Back Broken - I mean Better spending program that is now DOA. I wonder how many people will bite on an EV if massive incentives are not on the table. 

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48 minutes ago, akirby said:


 

 

 

 

There is absolutely a lot of over hype with BEVs but they’re also absolutely in demand by a subset of buyers and that will continue to grow as more vehicles are available and technology improves.  Being able to refuel at home, not deal with smelly gasoline pumps or high prices, no exhaust fumes, oil changes, coolant leaks in addition to the tech improvements and performance makes BEVs very appealing to some people.

absolutely agree with the subset...read extremists...lol...me, good old ICE, have no issues getting an oil change, the exhaust fumes are damn near non existent from later model cars, never personally dealt with a gas pump whos smell offended me or kept me prisoner to one place longer than 10 minutes, and Ive never had a coolant leak...I must be blessed...don't get me wrong...I actually LIKE BEVs, just not sold like the indoctrinated high maintenance ( and remember stereotypes are based on frequent occurrence ) Geeks that that have obviously completely embraced them for somewhat questionable reasons....

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1 hour ago, Footballfan said:

I think that a lot of this hype and embracing of EVs was predicated on Bidens Build Back Broken - I mean Better spending program that is now DOA. I wonder how many people will bite on an EV if massive incentives are not on the table. 


Teslas are still selling without tax credits and I doubt all those F150 Lightning reservation holders are buying just because of the incentives.

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17 minutes ago, akirby said:


Teslas are still selling without tax credits and I doubt all those F150 Lightning reservation holders are buying just because of the incentives.

so true...and NOW Teslas selling their cars without charge cords...avail at an extra cost. Funny...wasn't charging meant to be free forever at one stage as well....lol...

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2 hours ago, Deanh said:

like the anoalogy..me< id go so far as to say the popularity is due to being constantly barraged by people with vested interests promoting them as the next messiah....its propaganda 101....you get told something often enough you actually start believing it....media has utilized this game plan since day 1...hate to go political, but if the crap they pulled prior to the last election wasn't considered "meddling" then nothing is...

Keep in mind that Ford and GM have a big vested interest in pushing people towards high profit vehicles that have no emissions liability on them and seem to offer a guilt free experience to buyers, they will push this for all it’s worth except now there’s not enough batteries until XYX gets built……..ha!

Edited by jpd80
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33 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Keep in mind that Ford and GM have a big vested interest in pushing people towards high profit vehicles that have no emissions liability on them and seem to offer a guilt free experience to buyers, they will push this for all it’s worth except now there’s not enough batteries until XYX gets built……..ha!

I personally like how Ford hasn't gone all in like say GM....as another manufacturer just stated...SOMEONE will still be building ICE and selling everything they make....

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