FirstFord22 Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 As many of you know, I originally placed an order for my F-250 back in November of 2021. After joining this forum I was quickly educated by @ice-capades and many others that the order wasn’t done correctly. After many unsuccessful attempts trying to correct the order with the sales manager and GM, I decided to cancel the order and try again in February at a new dealership. The decision definitely paid off because I took delivery on 4/8, but that is not the reason for this post. The original order was never cancelled by the dealership even though they replied to my email stating they would cancel it. Fast forward to two weeks ago when to my surprise I received an email from Ford informing me that my truck had been shipped. Well my son-in-law was interested in purchasing a new truck so we decided to go to the dealership yesterday so he could buy “my” truck. Everything was going smoothly - until the shady sales manager came out! He “educated” us about the rules FMC has in place about selling retail orders to anyone other than the person who placed the order. In his words, “if I’m going to get penalized for selling this truck to anyone but [me], then I’m going to raise the price so I can make a profit.” I told him that even if he sold it for MSRP they would still be making a profit, he looked me square in the eye and said, “more profit!” I then explained to him that I cancelled the order in February and technically they should not have the truck in their inventory. He replied with a shrug and said it’s now 100% theirs, and if my son-in-law wants it for MSRP, then I will also have to be on the loan since I’m the person who ordered it. Needless to say we walked! I contacted the GM at the second dealership to inquire about placing an order and was told what we all know, the ‘22 MY order banks are closed, but the ‘23 will be open in August. I know where we will be going in August; the experience there was great from beginning to end! Please forgive the lengthy post, I just wanted to vent because I’m confident some of you have similar experiences! Here’s to walking away ? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr-Bear-PhD Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 Some dealers would rob their own mothers if it meant making a few percent more profit. It's sickening, but also it's an unfortunate fact of life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirbdog44 Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 I have heard conflicting dates for the MY23 ordering banks opening date. Most consistently hearing December time frame, but hopefully August for yalls sake! I would never step foot in that dealership again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NH_Bulldog Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 I am glad you were able to see through the BS and saw their true colors. It is VERY unfortunate and shortsighted for that dealership (or any dealership) to have the attitude of "if you don't buy it, someone else will...at a higher price". The customers they will lose down the road will negate any profit they think they are going to make on the truck that was supposed to be yours. I strongly encourage people to name names when it comes to dealer experiences good or bad. We live in a great world where one can buy from any dealer we want, no matter where they are located. I have a pretty large dealer just a few miles from my house that provides terrible service and sky-high markups, so I bought my truck 90 minutes away and had the best buying experience I have ever had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubes14060 Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, NH_Bulldog said: I strongly encourage people to name names when it comes to dealer experiences good or bad. We live in a great world where one can buy from any dealer we want, no matter where they are located. I have a pretty large dealer just a few miles from my house that provides terrible service and sky-high markups, so I bought my truck 90 minutes away and had the best buying experience I have ever had. It's funny you mentioned this because I just posted about a really great experience I had with a dealership. I hope it helps someone else. Edited April 21, 2022 by kubes14060 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcritch3 Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 1 hour ago, FirstFord22 said: As many of you know, I originally placed an order for my F-250 back in November of 2021. After joining this forum I was quickly educated by @ice-capades and many others that the order wasn’t done correctly. After many unsuccessful attempts trying to correct the order with the sales manager and GM, I decided to cancel the order and try again in February at a new dealership. The decision definitely paid off because I took delivery on 4/8, but that is not the reason for this post. The original order was never cancelled by the dealership even though they replied to my email stating they would cancel it. Fast forward to two weeks ago when to my surprise I received an email from Ford informing me that my truck had been shipped. Well my son-in-law was interested in purchasing a new truck so we decided to go to the dealership yesterday so he could buy “my” truck. Everything was going smoothly - until the shady sales manager came out! He “educated” us about the rules FMC has in place about selling retail orders to anyone other than the person who placed the order. In his words, “if I’m going to get penalized for selling this truck to anyone but [me], then I’m going to raise the price so I can make a profit.” I told him that even if he sold it for MSRP they would still be making a profit, he looked me square in the eye and said, “more profit!” I then explained to him that I cancelled the order in February and technically they should not have the truck in their inventory. He replied with a shrug and said it’s now 100% theirs, and if my son-in-law wants it for MSRP, then I will also have to be on the loan since I’m the person who ordered it. Needless to say we walked! I contacted the GM at the second dealership to inquire about placing an order and was told what we all know, the ‘22 MY order banks are closed, but the ‘23 will be open in August. I know where we will be going in August; the experience there was great from beginning to end! Please forgive the lengthy post, I just wanted to vent because I’m confident some of you have similar experiences! Here’s to walking away ? You dodged a bullet for sure! This crap is starting to happen more and more unfortunately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Kirbdog44 said: I have heard conflicting dates for the MY23 ordering banks opening date. Most consistently hearing December time frame, but hopefully August for yalls sake! I would never step foot in that dealership again! Until Ford publishes a timetable for the 2023MY Super Duty, any dates posted are just speculation. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 1 hour ago, FirstFord22 said: As many of you know, I originally placed an order for my F-250 back in November of 2021. After joining this forum I was quickly educated by @ice-capades and many others that the order wasn’t done correctly. After many unsuccessful attempts trying to correct the order with the sales manager and GM, I decided to cancel the order and try again in February at a new dealership. The decision definitely paid off because I took delivery on 4/8, but that is not the reason for this post. The original order was never cancelled by the dealership even though they replied to my email stating they would cancel it. Fast forward to two weeks ago when to my surprise I received an email from Ford informing me that my truck had been shipped. Well my son-in-law was interested in purchasing a new truck so we decided to go to the dealership yesterday so he could buy “my” truck. Everything was going smoothly - until the shady sales manager came out! He “educated” us about the rules FMC has in place about selling retail orders to anyone other than the person who placed the order. In his words, “if I’m going to get penalized for selling this truck to anyone but [me], then I’m going to raise the price so I can make a profit.” I told him that even if he sold it for MSRP they would still be making a profit, he looked me square in the eye and said, “more profit!” I then explained to him that I cancelled the order in February and technically they should not have the truck in their inventory. He replied with a shrug and said it’s now 100% theirs, and if my son-in-law wants it for MSRP, then I will also have to be on the loan since I’m the person who ordered it. Needless to say we walked! I contacted the GM at the second dealership to inquire about placing an order and was told what we all know, the ‘22 MY order banks are closed, but the ‘23 will be open in August. I know where we will be going in August; the experience there was great from beginning to end! Please forgive the lengthy post, I just wanted to vent because I’m confident some of you have similar experiences! Here’s to walking away ? Once scheduled, an order cannot be cancelled by the Dealer. Ford requires the Dealer to provide written documentation of a retail customer's request to cancel an order that has been registered and verified in the COVP (Customer Order Verification Program) system. There are detailed compliance requirements and standards that must be met with Dealers performance and compliance being monitored and audited by Ford on an ongoing basis. Repeated non-compliance subjects the offending Dealer to penalties including loss of allocation and more. The monitoring and audit process includes a "Name Match" to ensure that retail orders are delivered to the legitimate, verified customers and that the orders were not submitted to bypass the ordering, scheduling and sales processes by increasing a dealership's stock inventory by creation of fictitious retail orders. The market has changed substantially in the past two years, as evidenced by the tremendous increase in retail factory orders. Ford is adjusting to these changes by implementing new programs and policies to prioritize the scheduling and production for retail orders as efficiently as possible while also dealing with the extensive commodity restraints, supply chain disruptions, plant constraints, microchip shortages, supplier issues, etc. that are causing substantially longer OTD (Order to Delivery) times. The priority to get retail orders scheduled, produced and delivered as soon as possible to the verified retail customers. Ford will learn from experience and make adjustments as necessary to uphold the integrity of the retail order and sales practices while holding Dealers accountable for compliance in order to protect both the Ford brand and the dealerships that exercise professional and ethical business practices in providing the desired level of customer satisfaction. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tired Lizard Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 1 hour ago, ice-capades said: Once scheduled, an order cannot be cancelled by the Dealer. Ford requires the Dealer to provide written documentation of a retail customer's request to cancel an order that has been registered and verified in the COVP (Customer Order Verification Program) system. Can the Dealer just ignore the customer's request to cancel? Would the cancel have to happen before a VIN is created? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFatInTheHat Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 2 hours ago, ice-capades said: Once scheduled, an order cannot be cancelled by the Dealer. Ford requires the Dealer to provide written documentation of a retail customer's request to cancel an order that has been registered and verified in the COVP (Customer Order Verification Program) system. There are detailed compliance requirements and standards that must be met with Dealers performance and compliance being monitored and audited by Ford on an ongoing basis. Repeated non-compliance subjects the offending Dealer to penalties including loss of allocation and more. The monitoring and audit process includes a "Name Match" to ensure that retail orders are delivered to the legitimate, verified customers and that the orders were not submitted to bypass the ordering, scheduling and sales processes by increasing a dealership's stock inventory by creation of fictitious retail orders. The market has changed substantially in the past two years, as evidenced by the tremendous increase in retail factory orders. Ford is adjusting to these changes by implementing new programs and policies to prioritize the scheduling and production for retail orders as efficiently as possible while also dealing with the extensive commodity restraints, supply chain disruptions, plant constraints, microchip shortages, supplier issues, etc. that are causing substantially longer OTD (Order to Delivery) times. The priority to get retail orders scheduled, produced and delivered as soon as possible to the verified retail customers. Ford will learn from experience and make adjustments as necessary to uphold the integrity of the retail order and sales practices while holding Dealers accountable for compliance in order to protect both the Ford brand and the dealerships that exercise professional and ethical business practices in providing the desired level of customer satisfaction. If I remember correctly this guy's dealer ordered the truck he wanted as a stock order and the build sheet had a priority code of 80 on it to prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 35 minutes ago, Tired Lizard said: Can the Dealer just ignore the customer's request to cancel? Would the cancel have to happen before a VIN is created? If the Dealer ignores the customer's cancellation request for a COVP verified retail order by failing to report the cancellation and provide the supporting documentation in the COVP system, there will be a "Name Match" conflict in the compliance requirements when the sale is reported, and it will count against the Dealer's compliance requirement. If I remember correctly, without going into the details, it takes 3 violations within a certain period before triggering a warning and/or penalty action. The VIN number and initial production week are assigned at the same time the vehicle is scheduled and cannot be cancelled by the Dealer. Unscheduled orders of any type (Stock, Retail, Fleet) can be cancelled at any time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, TheFatInTheHat said: If I remember correctly this guy's dealer ordered the truck he wanted as a stock order and the build sheet had a priority code of 80 on it to prove it. Okay. If so, the information I provided wouldn't apply in that case. It would be surprising to see a stock order with priority code 80 get scheduled though and stupid for the Dealer to order a customer's vehicle as a stock unit at priority code 80. Edited April 21, 2022 by ice-capades Additional Content 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFatInTheHat Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, ice-capades said: Okay. If so, the information I provided wouldn't apply in that case. It would be surprising to see a stock order with priority code 80 get scheduled though. That's what I said when he posted the build sheet. Lol See his post here https://blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/73035-22-f-250-lariat-73-agate-black/&do=findComment&comment=1165963 Edited April 21, 2022 by TheFatInTheHat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 16 minutes ago, TheFatInTheHat said: That's what I said when he posted the build sheet. Lol Understood! I was going by the most recent posts as, with the volume of posts in the forums, there isn't always time to go through a poster's history! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forderorder Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 32 minutes ago, ice-capades said: If the Dealer ignores the customer's cancellation request for a COVP verified retail order by failing to report the cancellation and provide the supporting documentation in the COVP system, there will be a "Name Match" conflict in the compliance requirements when the sale is reported, and it will count against the Dealer's compliance requirement. Doesn't the dealer have the ability to report a REASON for the name match conflict and not receive a strike? Example of a reason: buyer cancelled purchase due to loss of employment. How well are these reasons actually validated? Couldn't the dealer just provide a bogus reason to avoid the strike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 24 minutes ago, Forderorder said: Doesn't the dealer have the ability to report a REASON for the name match conflict and not receive a strike? Example of a reason: buyer cancelled purchase due to loss of employment. How well are these reasons actually validated? Couldn't the dealer just provide a bogus reason to avoid the strike? Yes, but that's why the Dealer is required to upload a copy of the customer's written cancellation including the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j2sys Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 4 hours ago, FirstFord22 said: He “educated” us about the rules FMC has in place about selling retail orders to anyone other than the person who placed the order. In his words, “if I’m going to get penalized for selling this truck to anyone but [me], then I’m going to raise the price so I can make a profit.” I told him that even if he sold it for MSRP they would still be making a profit, he looked me square in the eye and said, “more profit!” That salesman, probably: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkuWCV_2sBM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1972Mach1 Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 My first truck order from 6/24 had a very unresponsive salesman who would not delete constraint items. So in November I placed another order and its scheduled to build next week. When I received the scheduled to build email on 3/17 I notified the first dealer to cancel the order via email. I never heard back from them so I would be willing to bet the truck is still on order. They did not require a deposit unlike the second dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstFord22 Posted April 22, 2022 Author Share Posted April 22, 2022 @ice-capades thank you for your reply. Like I mentioned, if it wasn’t for this forum I would have never walked away from the dealership. @TheFatInTheHat has a great memory. They certainly did place the order as stock with a priority code 80. I provided in writing to the sales manager and general manager the reason for my cancellation in February after you replied to my frustrated rant back then. @NH_Bulldog and @kubes14060 you guys are correct, I should name names. The experience I described is through Ford of Port Richey; literally the worst experience I have ever had! But I will not let it go unsaid that I didn’t give them a second or even a third chance to make it right, it just doesn’t seem like a dealership that prides itself on customer satisfaction or retention. On the other hand, Parks Ford of Wesley Chapel was amazing! My sales associate called me every ten days with an update; the GM of sales stayed in contact, and I was in/out of the finance office within the hour. I even called the GM while I was at the other dealership to see if we could place the order with them. He just said to come see him when the ‘23 order banks open and he’ll give my son-in-law the same deal he gave me! Clearly they care about their customers!! We all love and learn, and I certainly learned a lot! Glad it’s over 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstFord22 Posted April 22, 2022 Author Share Posted April 22, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, 1972Mach1 said: My first truck order from 6/24 had a very unresponsive salesman who would not delete constraint items. So in November I placed another order and its scheduled to build next week. When I received the scheduled to build email on 3/17 I notified the first dealer to cancel the order via email. I never heard back from them so I would be willing to bet the truck is still on order. They did not require a deposit unlike the second dealer. Funny, the first dealership didn’t require a deposit from me either! Edited April 22, 2022 by FirstFord22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstFord22 Posted April 22, 2022 Author Share Posted April 22, 2022 10 hours ago, ice-capades said: If the Dealer ignores the customer's cancellation request for a COVP verified retail order by failing to report the cancellation and provide the supporting documentation in the COVP system, there will be a "Name Match" conflict in the compliance requirements when the sale is reported, and it will count against the Dealer's compliance requirement. If I remember correctly, without going into the details, it takes 3 violations within a certain period before triggering a warning and/or penalty action. The VIN number and initial production week are assigned at the same time the vehicle is scheduled and cannot be cancelled by the Dealer. Unscheduled orders of any type (Stock, Retail, Fleet) can be cancelled at any time. So this is likely what the sales manager meant when he said they would be penalized, and if he’s going to get penalized he’s just going to raise the price to make more profit. Makes perfect sense to me now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thTimer Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 In the end you made the dealer happy to sell with a mark up. Why not buy the truck and sell it to your son taking away the mark up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr-Bear-PhD Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 1 hour ago, 4thTimer said: In the end you made the dealer happy to sell with a mark up. Why not buy the truck and sell it to your son taking away the mark up? The sheer devious genius of that warms the cockles of my heart 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 2 hours ago, 4thTimer said: In the end you made the dealer happy to sell with a mark up. Why not buy the truck and sell it to your son taking away the mark up? Here in MO, you would have to eat the sales tax on that. For a $70k truck, that's over $4500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstFord22 Posted April 22, 2022 Author Share Posted April 22, 2022 7 hours ago, 4thTimer said: In the end you made the dealer happy to sell with a mark up. Why not buy the truck and sell it to your son taking away the mark up? It did cross my mind, but I was so pissed off with his arrogance and condescension. What I didn’t mention in my original post is, I was going to buy it and put him on the loan then just have him re-fi it in just his name, but then came the BS lowball trade offer. There was no doubt they were going to try and make up that “marked up” profit somehow. KBB for his 2017 F-250 was $48k, but they were only willing to offer $41k. I could see the fury in my SIL eyes, so that’s when it was definitely time to walk! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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