Jump to content

Which octane?


JO302

Recommended Posts

Quick question - are you running premium or regular fuel?

 

Now that I have my 2022 I’m not far from the first fill up. Salesperson told me regular and I’m not finding it in the electronic manual.

 

My gut says premium with it being a turbo engine.

 

Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here we go again, and again, and again.  If you want the most power and drivability out of the truck use 91/93.  There is a fairly large difference in power between 87 and 93 octane- and not just peak power but over the whole power band.  I think car and driver did a test comparing our engine (in a raptor) with both fuels and they clocked a 1 second difference in most acceleration runs which is pretty large.  Once you spend $100,000 on a truck don't skimp on the last 5 bucks...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Emilner said:

Here we go again, and again, and again.  If you want the most power and drivability out of the truck use 91/93.  There is a fairly large difference in power between 87 and 93 octane- and not just peak power but over the whole power band.  I think car and driver did a test comparing our engine (in a raptor) with both fuels and they clocked a 1 second difference in most acceleration runs which is pretty large.  Once you spend $100,000 on a truck don't skimp on the last 5 bucks...

Like I said, personal preference. If I take my luxury SUV to the track, I will use 93. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, JO302 said:

Quick question - are you running premium or regular fuel?

 

Now that I have my 2022 I’m not far from the first fill up. Salesperson told me regular and I’m not finding it in the electronic manual.

 

My gut says premium with it being a turbo engine.

 

Thanks!

 

Hi JO302. As the Owners Manual states, and others have mentioned, the vehicle is designed to run using minimum 87 octane regular and up, but you will get the full advertised HP and Torque using 93 octane premium fuel.

More important than 87 or 93 octane, is fuel quality. So use name brand, Top Tier fuel brands, and avoid convenience store/no name fuels whenever possible.

 

Yes, some people will tell you that most fuels come from the same few refineries, etc. etc., and that is true. However it is the fuel additive/detergent packages that make the difference. Name brand/Top Tier fuel companies pay the refineries to add particular additives/detergents to their fuels (additives/detergents which are not added to most cheaper, convenience store brands). Those additives/detergents are what make many/most name brand/Top Tier fuels better for your vehicle engine in the long term.

 

According to the particular driving situation and environment at the moment, using 87 octane may/will dial back certain engine parameters, in order to avoid premature fuel detonation/engine knocking/pinging. That dialing back can result in about out 20-30 less hp (according to vehicle), compared to premium. That is a simplified explanation, of course.

89 and 91 octane fuel power outputs/losses will fall somewhere in between 87 and 93 octanes.

 

For those who care, the fuel economy differences between 87 octane regular and 93 premium are negligible at best. And any small mpg gains obtained by using premium fuel do not make up for the higher cost of premium fuels. In other words, you may get a slight mpg advantage using premium fuel in some cases, but you will pay more per mile for that gain, because of the relatively substantial higher cost of the premium fuel.

 

So if you are not worried about getting full power, if you do not tow with your Navigator, if you do not run it hard a lot or race your Navigator etc. etc., then 87 octane is perfectly fine, according to Lincoln (the people who designed, engineered and built our vehicles). As is 89 or 91 octane.

On the other hand, If you need/want full power from your Navigator, then use 93 octane premium. But it is not necessary or required.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Edited by bbf2530
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, akirby said:


Stop implying that people who use 87 are cheaping out.  Not everybody notices or cares about the power difference.

It's a perfectly rational statement.  We are all here giving opinions asking questions and giving answers.  I wouldn't get so offended (it seems to be par for the course nowadays).  Saving a few dollars when filling up a $100,000 truck makes zero sense to me- especially when there is a noticeable difference.  And yes, even the professionals said they noticed a difference when driven normally.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Emilner said:

It's a perfectly rational statement.  We are all here giving opinions asking questions and giving answers.  I wouldn't get so offended (it seems to be par for the course nowadays).  Saving a few dollars when filling up a $100,000 truck makes zero sense to me- especially when there is a noticeable difference.  And yes, even the professionals said they noticed a difference when driven normally.  

You said it. Opinion and what makes sense to you. So, again, personal preference on what each person wants to do. 

 

Professional what? Drivers? How many Navigator owners does that encompass? I have filled up with premium in the past, and the way I normally drive, I don't notice a difference. You have mentioned several times the $100k price tag. Precisely. This is not a sports car or track car. It's a luxury SUV. Those who want to fill up with 93 and get the full 440 and 510, by all means, have at it. Making people feel stupid for not doing so is, well...you know. 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Car and driver did a test, a few truck reviewers etc.  From C&D:   "Compared with premium fuel, regular fuel sapped the F-150's urgency both leaving the line and in the meat of the tach sweep.  The high-octane gas also helped when soft-pedaling the accelerator, elevating 75-mph fuel economy from 17.0 to 17.6 mpg. That won't make a financial case for running 93 octane, but then you didn't buy the expensive engine as a rational choice."

 

5 Star tuning says there is a 40hp dyno measured difference although C&D says it's 20hp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, the question really now is whether the OP will chime back in. I, for one, am not saying don't use 93. I am saying use whatever you want if you need the full 440 hp and 510 torque. Not sure why most of us need that all the time, but if anyone thinks he does, great! Buy 93 octane. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Emilner said:

It's a perfectly rational statement.  We are all here giving opinions asking questions and giving answers.  I wouldn't get so offended (it seems to be par for the course nowadays).  Saving a few dollars when filling up a $100,000 truck makes zero sense to me- especially when there is a noticeable difference.  And yes, even the professionals said they noticed a difference when driven normally.  


I’m not offended, I’m moderating.  What you can’t seem to comprehend is that your opinion only applies to you.  If you like the extra power and don’t mind the cost, good for you.   If other people don’t feel it’s worth it then that’s their opinion and it’s just as valid as yours.

 

All you have to say is YOU think it’s totally worth the added cost and leave it at that.  Do t judge others for feeling differently.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Black Label said:

Well, the question really now is whether the OP will chime back in. I, for one, am not saying don't use 93. I am saying use whatever you want if you need the full 440 hp and 510 torque. Not sure why most of us need that all the time, but if anyone thinks he does, great! Buy 93 octane. 


Exactly.  It’s really simple.  The extra power is real but not everyone cares.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/24/2022 at 8:36 AM, bbf2530 said:

Name brand/Top Tier fuel companies pay the refineries to add particular additives/detergents to their fuels (additives/detergents which are not added to most cheaper, convenience store brands). Those additives/detergents are what make many/most name brand/Top Tier fuels better for your vehicle engine in the long term.

 

 

Just to try again for clarity on the details here:

 

(1.) There are only ~7 refineries that service the entire US

(2.) The refineries use ~1-3 contracted trucking companies to run all their routes

(3.) Most all stations are independents, i.e., not owned by Chevron, Shell, etc  (e.g., the largest operator in the US, 7/11, owns ~8% of stations)

 

In short, the refineries aren't adding additives to this truckload and withholding it from that truckload - that just wouldn't make financial sense; In general there's one spigot and the trucks use it and everyone gets the same thing.

 

Further, we know this is true because in 2012 when BP screwed up a batch of fuel it affected all brands & stations including BP, Marathon, Shell, Costco, Luke oil, Speedway, Mobil, Valero (former Citgo), and Meijer and many smaller brands.

 

The reason was all these stations across the Chicago geographic area all get their fuel from one of two refineries no matter what brand name you buy it under. The BP Whiting refinery supplies ~70% and the Exon-Mobil refinery in Channahon supplies the other 30%.  All deliveries to all brands of retail stations are done by two trucking companies, one of which is McMahon Transport Group.

 

It was BP and McMahon that had to be tracked so they could find all the deliveries that got the bad batch of BP fuel (that bricked some vehicles); BP paid to fix all of the issues no matter what retail brand sold the fuel. They also gave all affected purchasers an additional $100 gift card.  The websites are still up about that.

 

NET-NET

Top Tier is real, the additives are effective, but you're likely getting the same gas from any given station in any given area, even if it's an off-brand station (though they're all independents anyway).  That said, there's probably some marginal benefit picking a major affiliate.

Edited by GrussGott
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, GrussGott said:

 

Just to try again for clarity on the details here:

 

(1.) There are only ~7 refineries that service the entire US

(2.) The refineries use ~1-3 contracted trucking companies to run all their routes

(3.) Most all stations are independents, i.e., not owned by Chevron, Shell, etc  (e.g., the largest operator in the US, 7/11, owns ~8% of stations)

 

In short, the refineries aren't adding additives to this truckload and withholding it from that truckload - that just wouldn't make financial sense; In general there's one spigot and the trucks use it and everyone gets the same thing.

 

Further, we know this is true because in 2012 when BP screwed up a batch of fuel it affected all brands & stations including BP, Marathon, Shell, Costco, Luke oil, Speedway, Mobil, Valero (former Citgo), and Meijer and many smaller brands.

 

The reason was all these stations across the Chicago geographic area all get their fuel from one of two refineries no matter what brand name you buy it under. The BP Whiting refinery supplies ~70% and the Exon-Mobil refinery in Channahon supplies the other 30%.  All deliveries to all brands of retail stations are done by two trucking companies, one of which is McMahon Transport Group.

 

It was BP and McMahon that had to be tracked so they could find all the deliveries that got the bad batch of BP fuel (that bricked some vehicles); BP paid to fix all of the issues no matter what retail brand sold the fuel. They also gave all affected purchasers an additional $100 gift card.  The websites are still up about that.

 

NET-NET

but you're likely getting the same gas from any given station in any given area, even if it's an off-brand station (though they're all independents anyway).  That said, there's probably some marginal benefit picking a major affiliate.

 

Hi GrussGott. Well, in all good spirits, now we will need to clarify again. ?

 

First, you slipped in two quite large qualifying exceptions there when you stated "In general there's one spigot", and "...but you're likely getting the same gas...".

So let's make it clear that "In general" and "...but you're likely..." are quite ambiguous and not guarantees.

So in other words, as was already stated, the only way to ensure we get those beneficial additives (excluding fraud, mistakes, etc....lol), is to purchase name brand, Top Tier fuels.. Anything else is an "In general..." or a "...but you're likely" gamble.  ?

And concerning your comments about "when BP screwed up", one exception does not make the rule.

 

And we should not infer someone said something they did not, in order to exaggerate a point (Strawman argument). ?

No one, including me, stated it is a matter of "adding additives to this truckload and withholding it from that truckload". The reality is refineries produce very large batches of fuel for different customers, according to supply/demand and orders. And those batches can/will vary in formulations, even if portions of the same batch may go to multiple customers.

And please don't partial quote me out of context. Because as can be seen with your "In general there's one spigot" and "...but you're likely getting the same gas..." , any quick Internet reply can be dissected to death. ?

 

In order to save endless debate and discussion: Top Tier fuels are tested for quality, octane, to be sure they are formulated with the promised additives etc. etc., in order to provide the benefits noted.

Non Top Tier fuels are not. Quite the contrary, we can be sure, in general (?) that convenience store gasoline will likely (?) not contain the same additives/detergents which most (?) Top Tier, major brand fuels contain. And if we purchase them, we take our chances as to whether they have those beneficial additives and will provide the best performance and protection for our engines. 

 

So as you stated in your NET-NET summary, and I agree..."Top Tier is real, the additives are effective..." and "...there's probably some marginal benefit picking a major affiliate.". And a benefit is a benefit. That we can agree on.

 

Now, concerning the OP's original question about 87 versus 93 octane (and those grades in between): All the pertinent information is in this thread, and the OP and everyone else can make an informed decision as to whether they need/want to pay for premium fuel and full power output, or can do with a slight power drop/a few less ponies, in order to save some money every tankful. It is a personal decision with no single answer which is right for everyone.  And they can also know that fuel quality is at least as important, if not more so, than the debate between minimum 87 or 93 octane.

 

Good luck my Lincoln friend.

Edited by bbf2530
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, bbf2530 said:

 

concerning your comments about "when BP screwed up", one exception does not make the rule.

 

The whole point was & is, it's not an exception it is the rule: There are only 7 refineries with some small local exceptions like Maricopa county in AZ.

 

Most stations, no matter the sign, are pumping out the same gas from the same truck from the same refinery - it's all Top Tier.

 

And, you're not less likely to get hit with bad gas buying from Shell vs off-brand since it's all the same stuff (with some local exceptions).

 

As for the OP, well probably the largest warning isn't about 87 octane, it's 85 octane in mountain states which Ford won't warranty.

Edited by GrussGott
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, GrussGott said:

 

The whole point was & is, it's not an exception it is the rule: There are only 7 refineries with some small local exceptions like Maricopa county in AZ.

 

Most stations, no matter the sign, are pumping out the same gas from the same truck from the same refinery - it's all Top Tier.

 

And, you're not less likely to get hit with bad gas buying from Shell vs off-brand since it's all the same stuff (with some local exceptions).

 

As for the OP, well probably the largest warning isn't about 87 octane, it's 85 octane in mountain states which Ford won't warranty.

 

Hi GrussGott. Well, the whole point is that there are multiple points. Octane, quality, price for many owners etc. ?

 

As far as 85 octane? Hopefully anyone who owns a Lincoln/Ford vehicle, and who hopefully also owns enough common sense to check important yet easily verifiable information about their expensive purchase, will not use 85 octane fuel.

87 octane fuel is the minimum allowable. And as you and others of us have stated...If we use fuel with a lower rating than 87 octane, Lincoln/Ford is within their warranty contract rights to deny any warranty claims which can be connected to that error.

 

Yes, I know...common sense is not so common nowadays. But hopefully we have helped someone here.

 

Good luck. ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Flying68 said:

Where are you getting that there are only 7 refineries in the US that produce gasoline.  The EIA says that there are 129 operable refineries in the US as of January 2021.

 

H Flying. Just to add to your information...For those how would like more information on US refineries, see here: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=Fuel+refineries+in+the+US

 

And here: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/refining-crude-oil-refinery-rankings.php

 

Good luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...