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I was one of those 5,110 Rangers delivered since I picked up mine Apr. 30th. The Maverick is a nice little pickup, but I wanted a real truck with off-road capability and a tough frame. I added a dealer installed spray-in bedliner, red tow hooks to match the grille inserts and a pair of 6" Diode Dynamics light bars so I could put the Aux switches to use.

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0505221726~2.jpg

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, 02MustangGT said:

I couldn’t agree more, but manufacturers aren’t going to stop developing and marketing new products.  Bronco Raptor is a prime example.  You’d think that Ford would build existing orders before adding new models to the production mix considering the current supply constraints.  I don’t understand it, but the reality is, manufacturers are moving forward with new products regardless of the supply situation.  Here’s to hoping supplies normalize within the next year or so.  

God, I hope so.

Ford, GM and other manufacturers would be killing it at the moment if they could just get chips and other items in short supply. Here we have Ford with its best line up in years and they just can’t build enough of the damn things…..

 

Ranger Raptor is a veritable cash cow, a gift from god for raising profit level and in that sense, probably justified ahead of Gen 2 Ranger if competing for production space against Bronco. The other thing that struck me about F150 Raptor was that Ford never considered the 600 HP version of EB 35 (Ford GT) with say, power boost on top to seal the deal……Heck even the Explorer ST’s 3.0 Powerboost with ~600 hp/~600 lb ft might be a thing…

 

Supercharged 6.2 V8 for F150 Raptor S should have been a thing for the past ten years, an easy sell IMO…..

 

 

Edited by jpd80

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4 hours ago, 02MustangGT said:

I couldn’t agree more, but manufacturers aren’t going to stop developing and marketing new products.  Bronco Raptor is a prime example.  You’d think that Ford would build existing orders before adding new models to the production mix considering the current supply constraints.  I don’t understand it, but the reality is, manufacturers are moving forward with new products regardless of the supply situation.  Here’s to hoping supplies normalize within the next year or so.  


I hope something gives, because I can’t explain why I still have not received a build date for a Raptor I ordered in October of last year, when dealers are receiving stock Raptor orders.  No need get into dealer allocation, I understand that situation. But I am a paying  customer, that has yet to receive the vehicle. It seems to me something is broken. 

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2 hours ago, 2005Explorer said:

I was one of those 5,110 Rangers delivered since I picked up mine Apr. 30th. The Maverick is a nice little pickup, but I wanted a real truck with off-road capability and a tough frame. I added a dealer installed spray-in bedliner, red tow hooks to match the grille inserts and a pair of 6" Diode Dynamics light bars so I could put the Aux switches to use.

0505221726a~2.jpg

0505221726~2.jpg

Nice looking truck. I like the red tow hooks.  You definitely have a real truck, the Ranger has seen service and some very hostile environments.

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2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

God, I hope so.

Ford, GM and other manufacturers would be killing it at the moment if they could just get chips and other items in short supply. Here we have Ford with its best line up in years and they just can’t build enough of the damn things…..

 

Ranger Raptor is a veritable cash cow, a gift from god for raising profit level and in that sense, probably justified ahead of Gen 2 Ranger if competing for production space against Bronco. The other thing that struck me about F150 Raptor was that Ford never considered the 600 HP version of EB 35 (Ford GT) with say, power boost on top to seal the deal……Heck even the Explorer ST’s 3.0 Powerboost with ~600 hp/~600 lb ft might be a thing…

 

Supercharged 6.2 V8 for F150 Raptor S should have been a thing for the past ten years, an easy sell IMO…..

 

 


I really don’t understand what is going on regarding your thoughts on the more powerful motors for these vehicles.  It seems like such an easy thing to achieve, which has made little progress as of late. 
 

I’m still hoping for a power boost version of the rumored 6.8l for the Raptor R. I think that would be an amazing setup. Perhaps they have something interesting in store for the Raptor R which has resulted in the delay. 

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31 minutes ago, tbone said:

I really don’t understand what is going on regarding your thoughts on the more powerful motors for these vehicles.  It seems like such an easy thing to achieve, which has made little progress as of late. 

The moment Ford added the crew cab to F150 Raptor, you could see the focus change more to volume sales and away from an apex performance vehicle.

 

31 minutes ago, tbone said:

I’m still hoping for a power boost version of the rumored 6.8l for the Raptor R. I think that would be an amazing setup. Perhaps they have something interesting in store for the Raptor R which has resulted in the delay. 

Any form of hybrid or PHEV styled Powerboost on top of whichever performance engine has to be a strong contender these days.

3.5 Powerboost - they’re not really trying with 430 hp

3.0 Powerboost - 595 hp/ 600 lb ft is a far jump on current Raptor

6.8 NA Powerboost.? If it had close to 600 hp 600 lb ft, might be interesting…

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, jpd80 said:

The moment Ford added the crew cab to F150 Raptor, you could see the focus change more to volume sales and away from an apex performance vehicle.

 

Any form of hybrid or PHEV styled Powerboost on top of whichever performance engine has to be a strong contender these days.

3.5 Powerboost - they’re not really trying with 430 hp

3.0 Powerboost - 595 hp/ 600 lb ft is a far jump on current Raptor

6.8 NA Powerboost.? If it had close to 600 hp 600 lb ft, might be interesting…


I agree regarding the crew cab, but it made it much more useful as a daily driver, and a more sustainable vehicle.   
 

I don’t think the R has to be  the horsepower king if it does something different like the power boost. Especially if it were to routinely get 18 mpg plus.  I know they say that people that buy these kind of trucks don’t care about gas mileage , but I’ve heard a lot of complaining about it. Range is a factor in these trucks and people get tired of filling them all the time.  A motor like the power boost combined with the Raptors lighter weight, may be very close to the TRXs performance even. I doubt it will happen but I find it compelling. 

Edited by tbone

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10 hours ago, 02MustangGT said:

I couldn’t agree more, but manufacturers aren’t going to stop developing and marketing new products.  Bronco Raptor is a prime example.  You’d think that Ford would build existing orders before adding new models to the production mix considering the current supply constraints.  I don’t understand it, but the reality is, manufacturers are moving forward with new products regardless of the supply situation.  Here’s to hoping supplies normalize within the next year or so.  

 

But the Bronco Raptor was already in development after the engineering work for the regular Bronco was finished-it prob finished development right when the Bronco was supposed to launch in December 2020. 

 

I also think a lot changes have happened in the past 24-36 months and COVID has just compounded them. We are only seeing updates to current ICE products and other rumored products like the Puma, Fusion Active, Raptor R are no where to be heard of...I wonder if they have been canceled outright or what. 

Given Fords aggressive pivot to BEVs, it really makes no sense (at least in NA) to come out with a new ICE powered product in say 2024 or so-we are basically almost halfway through 2022 and the only major updates coming in the next couple months are Bronco Raptor and Everglades...not sure if anything else "new" is making it to the market this year. Maybe the MCE for the Explorer? But given the current conditions that might be pushed to next year. 

 

I'm guessing that the Next Gen Mustang Launches next spring and the refreshed Escape also. 

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11 hours ago, 02MustangGT said:

Huh?  I’m not seeing anything other than the Lightning is sold out for at least the 2022 model year.  
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-f-150-lightning-sold-out-203004899.html

 


Ford builds a lot of vehicles which are held for inspection prior to giving the OK to buy at which point they can start shipping vehicles directly off the line and that’s when they start building retail orders.  They have to go 5 days straight with no build errors so that could take a week or a month on a new model.  They also provide dealer demos probably from the same bunch.  

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If Ford held off on new models then when the supply chain gets fixed they’re late to the party.  Remember they’re only behind 10%-20% right now.

 

It does appear that Ford is giving stock allocations on some vehicles to some dealers ahead of retail orders but some of that is due to not having parts for retail orders and buyers walking away or ordering multiple vehicles.  Trying to keep dealers happy with allocations is a no win situation for Ford no matter what they do.

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1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

Given Fords aggressive pivot to BEVs, it really makes no sense (at least in NA) to come out with a new ICE powered product in say 2024 or so-we are basically almost halfway through 2022 and the only major updates coming in the next couple months are Bronco Raptor and Everglades...not sure if anything else "new" is making it to the market this year. Maybe the MCE for the Explorer? But given the current conditions that might be pushed to next year. 


This is what worries me, as the country is nowhere near ready for a full conversion to BEVs. 

 

1 hour ago, akirby said:

If Ford held off on new models then when the supply chain gets fixed they’re late to the party.  Remember they’re only behind 10%-20% right now.

 

It does appear that Ford is giving stock allocations on some vehicles to some dealers ahead of retail orders but some of that is due to not having parts for retail orders and buyers walking away or ordering multiple vehicles.  Trying to keep dealers happy with allocations is a no win situation for Ford no matter what they do.


Several of the stock Raptor orders I have been seeing are my configuration, so it isn’t a parts issue. I know Raptors are manually scheduled, but this is a retail order that is now eight months old. What they have going on is a great way to frustrate and alienate customers, especially loyal customers who have bought many Ford vehicles over the years. 

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25 minutes ago, tbone said:

Several of the stock Raptor orders I have been seeing are my configuration, so it isn’t a parts issue. I know Raptors are manually scheduled, but this is a retail order that is now eight months old. What they have going on is a great way to frustrate and alienate customers, especially loyal customers who have bought many Ford vehicles over the years. 


Hard to say exactly the reason.  Are you first in line at your dealer?  Maybe the other dealers didn’t have special orders?   Maybe the other one was a retail order that fell through?  I know Ford is mixing retail and stock Bronco orders but didn’t think they were doing it for Raptors,

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39 minutes ago, akirby said:

I know Ford is mixing retail and stock Bronco orders


I wasn't aware we were building any stock orders yet... 

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41 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


I wasn't aware we were building any stock orders yet... 

 

The allocation is not based on reservations so it’s possible larger dealers are getting some stock orders before smaller dealers with reservations.

 

The dealer allocation formula for the 2022 model year Bronco will be as follows:

  • 50% Overall Ford sales history for past 3 years
  • 25% 2021 Bronco allocations
  • 25% Bronco Sport % sales last year

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16 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Sold out is relative to the low build numbers this year, originally that was going to be around 15,000, maybe it’s 20,000 now but few batteries mean nothing spectacular. Ford is still stuck with Hackett’s woeful battery planning.

 

With these annoying chip shortages, there’s no point in discussing Raptor because the line is out the door so to speak, if ford is struggling to supply for weeks/months, there’s hardly any point talking about another vehicle until they get a clear path on current ones.

 

They're not going to just not launch products that are in line, though I agree as a customer, it looks strange that they can't build what they already have thousands of orders for, yet they're adding more to that.  But I understand the production aspect of it.

 

11 hours ago, jpd80 said:

The moment Ford added the crew cab to F150 Raptor, you could see the focus change more to volume sales and away from an apex performance vehicle.

 

Any form of hybrid or PHEV styled Powerboost on top of whichever performance engine has to be a strong contender these days.

3.5 Powerboost - they’re not really trying with 430 hp

3.0 Powerboost - 595 hp/ 600 lb ft is a far jump on current Raptor

6.8 NA Powerboost.? If it had close to 600 hp 600 lb ft, might be interesting…

 

except customers want crew cabs, not supercabs.  Unless they only want to sell a few hundred a year, excluding a supercrew would be incredibly stupid.  Same goes for Bronco Raptor, which didn't even get a 2-door version.

 

3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


I wasn't aware we were building any stock orders yet... 

 

I thought I read that they're throwing in some stock units of lower-end models that don't need as many chips.

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7 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Given Fords aggressive pivot to BEVs, it really makes no sense (at least in NA) to come out with a new ICE powered product in say 2024 or so-we are basically almost halfway through 2022 and the only major updates coming in the next couple months are Bronco Raptor and Everglades...not sure if anything else "new" is making it to the market this year. Maybe the MCE for the Explorer? But given the current conditions that might be pushed to next year. 

 

I’m not following the logic here.  2030 would still be 5 model years away.  Seems like a regular product cycle to me.  I wouldn’t expect any new architectures that couldn’t be electrified, though.  Not introducing anything new on the ice front would be dicey as to whether Ford can secure the supply chain for Bev components and demand for electric vehicles keeps pace.  By mid to late decade the current products would be quite stale.  Better to have something of a plan B using ice.  Particularly for traditional customers that are Ford’s base.  Otherwise, I see the base being eroded faster to competitors that kept their ice products fresh than the new Bev customers coming on board.  Product planning is going to be critical over the next decade or so.  Those that get it right will be big winners.

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12 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Any form of hybrid or PHEV styled Powerboost on top of whichever performance engine has to be a strong contender these days.

3.5 Powerboost - they’re not really trying with 430 hp

3.0 Powerboost - 595 hp/ 600 lb ft is a far jump on current Raptor

6.8 NA Powerboost.? If it had close to 600 hp 600 lb ft, might be interesting…

Agree on the 3.5L powerboost.  Now that Toyota has inched past with the Tundra, Ford might up the ante.  I think the small 1.5Kwh battery pack and CAFE are the culprits.  No reason a 550hp or greater version couldn’t be created other than if the transmission can handle the power output.

 

The aviator is 494hp/630lb ft. In grand touring aka powerboost.  Another 100hp is quite a jump, but not impossible.

 

Hard to say what the 6.8L will make for power numbers.  If 32 valves, 600hp 600 lb ft NA should be easy.  Add 50-100hp for powerboost.  Even pushrod I would expect 600hp and 600+ lb ft.

 

What is missing is a powerboost Coyote and or ecoboost coyote.  Then again, Ford may not be interested in that market segment occupied by the 600hp twin turbo German V8s.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

But the Bronco Raptor was already in development after the engineering work for the regular Bronco was finished-it prob finished development right when the Bronco was supposed to launch in December 2020. 
 

Bronco Raptor was developed at the same time as the rest of the Bronco program but rumours were that the business plan couldn’t be justified so was stopped. An alternate submission for BR that use amortisation of the engineering modules across Ranger and Everest got it back on course but delayed. (Hackett and his penny pinching getting in the way of what should have been no brainer decisions.)

 

 

 

Quote

 

I also think a lot changes have happened in the past 24-36 months and COVID has just compounded them. We are only seeing updates to current ICE products and other rumored products like the Puma, Fusion Active, Raptor R are no where to be heard of...I wonder if they have been canceled outright or what. 

Given Fords aggressive pivot to BEVs, it really makes no sense (at least in NA) to come out with a new ICE powered product in say 2024 or so-we are basically almost halfway through 2022 and the only major updates coming in the next couple months are Bronco Raptor and Everglades...not sure if anything else "new" is making it to the market this year. Maybe the MCE for the Explorer? But given the current conditions that might be pushed to next year. 

 

I'm guessing that the Next Gen Mustang Launches next spring and the refreshed Escape also. 

You’re seeing Hackett’s removal of funding for ICE projects, unless essential/justified and supported by Fields projects didn’t happen. One of the biggest indicators of this is that battery supply for all the planned hybrids was woefully inadequate.

Edited by jpd80

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11 hours ago, akirby said:


Ford builds a lot of vehicles which are held for inspection prior to giving the OK to buy at which point they can start shipping vehicles directly off the line and that’s when they start building retail orders.  They have to go 5 days straight with no build errors so that could take a week or a month on a new model.  They also provide dealer demos probably from the same bunch.  

Yeah I know…you quoted my post related to the Lightning being “sold out”.   I’m guessing you meant to quote a different post because sold out Lightnings has nothing to do with OKTB.  

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1 hour ago, 02MustangGT said:

Yeah I know…you quoted my post related to the Lightning being “sold out”.   I’m guessing you meant to quote a different post because sold out Lightnings has nothing to do with OKTB.  


You questioned how there could be stock Lightnings for sale if Ford says they are sold out. All of the ones built prior to OKTB are stock and/or dealer demos.  That’s a few thousand units.  You saw them at the launch event.  They do not start building retail orders until AFTER OKTB.  So that’s how there can be dealer stock Lightnings.

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24 minutes ago, akirby said:


You questioned how there could be stock Lightnings for sale if Ford says they are sold out. All of the ones built prior to OKTB are stock and/or dealer demos.  That’s a few thousand units.  You saw them at the launch event.  They do not start building retail orders until AFTER OKTB.  So that’s how there can be dealer stock Lightnings.

I questioned nothing of the sort.  You either misinterpreted the context of my post or quoted the wrong person…hence my response.  I couldn’t care less if there are dealer stock Lightnings.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, 02MustangGT said:

I questioned nothing of the sort.  You either misinterpreted the context of my post or quoted the wrong person…hence my response.  I couldn’t care less if there are dealer stock Lightnings.

Part of that was due to me not being aware that all trim levels of this year’s Lightning builds are now sold out. If that is true, it means that Ford has orders for around 15,000 high series Lightnings priced between $74k to $92k…well, that’s the way I’m reading those higher trims…

 

I’m curious to know when Ford will start taking orders for next years builds, that should be around 50,000 or so builds but I hoping it’s a bit more than that..

Edited by jpd80

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24 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Part of that was due to me not being aware that all trim levels of this year’s Lightning builds are now sold out. If that is true, it means that Ford has orders for around 15,000 Lightnings priced between $74k to $92k…well, that’s the way I’m reading those higher trims…

Honestly, 15,000 units produced and delivered for 2022 MY would be a win.  Rivian plans to build 25,000 units in 2022, if Ford ramps up as planned for 2023, the Lightning will be a resounding success.  

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, 02MustangGT said:

Honestly, 15,000 units produced and delivered for 2022 MY would be a win.  Rivian plans to build 25,000 units in 2022, if Ford ramps up as planned for 2023, the Lightning will be a resounding success.  

Absolutely.

The original plan was for 15,000 Lightnings in 2022 but I suspect that Ford is pushing to get 20,000 built and sold this year but we’ll see..GM’s slow progress with its EVs makes me wonder if all the talk is just window dressing to cover difficulty in ramping up the volumes expected by Barra. Rivian getting funding from Georgia will be a big boost and should be good news for stock prices (held by Ford) and yes, 25,000 builds from Rivian is exactly what’s needed…

Edited by jpd80

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15 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

I'm guessing that the Next Gen Mustang Launches next spring and the refreshed Escape also. 

It looks like the next gen Mustang is really just a refresh of the current model with carryover powertrains on the same platform and no major styling changes. Looks like the biggest change will be to the interior with the digital dash and large screen. 

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