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49 minutes ago, Trader 10 said:

It looks like the next gen Mustang is really just a refresh of the current model with carryover powertrains on the same platform and no major styling changes. Looks like the biggest change will be to the interior with the digital dash and large screen. 


I hope it’s not just a half assed job, but yet another carry over powertrain suggests that might be the case. Could this be yet another victim of Ford’s BEV push?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, tbone said:


I hope it’s not just a half assed job, but yet another carry over powertrain suggests that might be the case. Could this be yet another victim of Ford’s BEV push?

Ford seems to be following gm's playbook to a T- a company who leaves a lot to be desired- but they need to be setting their own course like they did in the 1980s and 1990s.  gm's playbook is to cheapen the ICE end of things up, cut content, raise prices, lower or eliminate incentives so the excess profits can be plowed into EVs and AVs.  It definitely is a sellers market, but at the end of the day, customers will be pissed when they realize they are being overcharged and getting less.  By that time the EV efforts will not matter because the buyers have moved on to different brands. 

 

Edited by Footballfan

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4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Absolutely.

The original plan was for 15,000 Lightnings in 2022 but I suspect that Ford is pushing to get 20,000 built and sold this year but we’ll see..GM’s slow progress with its EVs makes me wonder if all the talk is just window dressing to cover difficulty in ramping up the volumes expected by Barra. Rivian getting funding from Georgia will be a big boost and should be good news for stock prices (held by Ford) and yes, 25,000 builds from Rivian is exactly what’s needed…

I personally don't think Rivan will be long for this world especially when traditional OEMs come out with their offerings.  The $1.5 billion Georgia gave to Rivian was just to get them to build a factory there that may unfortunately never be used.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, tbone said:


This is what worries me, as the country is nowhere near ready for a full conversion to BEVs. 

 


 

I agree with you.  I think that a viable and reliable charging infrastructure is decades away.  Biden and his corporate klingons were banking on Build Back Better and its 500K charging stations.  Well BBB is dead.  Who's going to foot the bill now?  And sorry, people are not going to magically flock to EVs en masse even if our f'ed up government tries to shove it down their throat. 

Edited by Footballfan

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5 hours ago, Trader 10 said:

It looks like the next gen Mustang is really just a refresh of the current model with carryover powertrains on the same platform and no major styling changes. Looks like the biggest change will be to the interior with the digital dash and large screen. 

An evolutionary design based on S550 for sure but with a lot of unseen change with provision for hybrid battery location under the floor (a lift from the CD6 program)

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Wards Auto reported that the BEV market overall in the U.S. grew by 65% in April 2022 compared to a year prior. So Ford's growth of 139% in the same period is more than double that of the market overall.

 

If Ford's Model e division can keep this up long term, the company's future prospects are very bright.

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9 hours ago, Footballfan said:

Ford seems to be following gm's playbook to a T- a company who leaves a lot to be desired- but they need to be setting their own course like they did in the 1980s and 1990s.  gm's playbook is to cheapen the ICE end of things up, cut content, raise prices, lower or eliminate incentives so the excess profits can be plowed into EVs and AVs.  It definitely is a sellers market, but at the end of the day, customers will be pissed when they realize they are being overcharged and getting less.  By that time the EV efforts will not matter because the buyers have moved on to different brands. 

 

 

Apparently there are other manufacturers that think ICE models are still important. I recognize I’m making a lot of inferences on Ford’s plans based on Ford’s recent actions, but I have an uneasy feeling about the situation.  This combined with their support of California’s higher fuel mileage standards which is consistent with a major shift for the company.  I can understand this support for from a long term planning perspective, but what goes in California does not necessarily  work for the rest of the country. I’m just hoping they don’t loose focus on their ICE models during this long term transition to BEVs. 

https://fordauthority.com/2022/05/ford-reorganization-plan-will-not-be-emulated-by-mercedes-or-vw/

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27 minutes ago, tbone said:

 

Apparently there are other manufacturers that think ICE models are still important. I recognize I’m making a lot of inferences on Ford’s plans based on Ford’s recent actions, but I have an uneasy feeling about the situation.  This combined with their support of California’s higher fuel mileage standards which is consistent with a major shift for the company.  I can understand this support for from a long term planning perspective, but what goes in California does not necessarily  work for the rest of the country. I’m just hoping they don’t loose focus on their ICE models during this long term transition to BEVs. 

https://fordauthority.com/2022/05/ford-reorganization-plan-will-not-be-emulated-by-mercedes-or-vw/


Trucks including Maverick, Vans, Mustang, Bronco, Explorer and Bronco Sport are very safe.  Edge is gone.  I’d say Escape is probably safe due to HEV and PHEV options.  There really is no need for any new powertrains so it’s just top hat refreshes.  I’m sure we’ll see some cost cutting here and there but I dont foresee anything dire in the next 10 years.

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

Wards Auto reported that the BEV market overall in the U.S. grew by 65% in April 2022 compared to a year prior. So Ford's growth of 139% in the same period is more than double that of the market overall.

 

If Ford's Model e division can keep this up long term, the company's future prospects are very bright.


To be clear, I want Ford to be successful in BEVs because they are the future whether people want them or not, but how realistic are these percentage comparisons when there are l likely hundreds of thousands of ICE orders between all the manufacturers that are unfulfilled. The numbers aren’t really that useful for comparison purposes at this point in my opinion. 

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57 minutes ago, tbone said:


To be clear, I want Ford to be successful in BEVs because they are the future whether people want them or not, but how realistic are these percentage comparisons when there are l likely hundreds of thousands of ICE orders between all the manufacturers that are unfulfilled. The numbers aren’t really that useful for comparison purposes at this point in my opinion. 


A company that goes from 100 vehicles to 1000 vehicles increased sales by 1000%.

 

Percentages are meaningless on small volumes.

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18 hours ago, 02MustangGT said:

I questioned nothing of the sort.  You either misinterpreted the context of my post or quoted the wrong person…hence my response.  I couldn’t care less if there are dealer stock Lightnings.


When you said $92k Lightning I thought you were referring to the dealer stock Lightning with a $40k ADM.  My mistake.

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Posted (edited)

Here are a couple of 2022 F-150 Lightning Window Stickers. 

 

1FTVW1EL1NWG00138_WS.pdf

1FT6W1EV3NWG00003_WS.pdf

 

1FTVW1EL1NWG00138_WS.jpg

 

1FT6W1EV3NWG00003_WS.jpg

 

Ford is generating F-150 Lightning orders for the FCTP (Ford Courtesy Transportation Program) so that Dealers will have vehicles available for demonstration. Ford is creating the orders, not the Dealers. 

Edited by ice-capades
Additional Content

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1 hour ago, akirby said:


When you said $92k Lightning I thought you were referring to the dealer stock Lightning with a $40k ADM.  My mistake.

Gotcha, I was confused by your response, that’s all 🤙.  

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2 hours ago, ice-capades said:

Here are a couple of 2022 F-150 Lightning Window Stickers. 

 

1FTVW1EL1NWG00138_WS.pdf

1FT6W1EV3NWG00003_WS.pdf

 

1FTVW1EL1NWG00138_WS.jpg

 

1FT6W1EV3NWG00003_WS.jpg

 

Ford is generating F-150 Lightning orders for the FCTP (Ford Courtesy Transportation Program) so that Dealers will have vehicles available for demonstration. Ford is creating the orders, not the Dealers. 

Ford went beyond the 8500lb GVWR typical of the 1/2 ton class.  I wonder how this will impact CAFE numbers.  In the past, over 8500lb were exempt.  Some regulation likely changed.  I also found the fuel savings interesting.  Not much of a savings, but it should be compared to a 4x4 truck, not an average vehicle.

 

any idea how many of these FCTP vehicles are being produced?  With Ford bumping up the payload, it’s a more attractive vehicle to me, just not the price.  A fctp lightning just might make the cut.

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, slemke said:

Ford went beyond the 8500lb GVWR typical of the 1/2 ton class.  I wonder how this will impact CAFE numbers.  In the past, over 8500lb were exempt.  Some regulation likely changed.  I also found the fuel savings interesting.  Not much of a savings, but it should be compared to a 4x4 truck, not an average vehicle.

 

any idea how many of these FCTP vehicles are being produced?  With Ford bumping up the payload, it’s a more attractive vehicle to me, just not the price.  A fctp lightning just might make the cut.

 

2022MY F-150 Lightning Mannequin vehicles must remain in-service for a minimum of 6 months (180 days). Sale to a final customer prior to meeting all in-service requirements will result in a penalty of $25,000, unless the FCTP Mannequin unit can be replaced with another F-150 Lightning within 90 days. It will also result in the unit being ineligible for any retail bonus cash incentives and chargeback of any FCTP 30/60/90/120 Day incentives and will result in dealer ineligibility for future FCTP Mannequin programs.

Edited by ice-capades

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10 hours ago, slemke said:

Ford went beyond the 8500lb GVWR typical of the 1/2 ton class.  I wonder how this will impact CAFE numbers.  In the past, over 8500lb were exempt.  Some regulation likely changed.  I also found the fuel savings interesting.  Not much of a savings, but it should be compared to a 4x4 truck, not an average vehicle.

Technically, vehicles above 8,500 lbs GVWR are excluded form CAFE but they might have a positive influence on Super Duty - heavy duty truck fuel economy targets that are now in play.

 

 

10 hours ago, slemke said:

any idea how many of these FCTP vehicles are being produced?  With Ford bumping up the payload, it’s a more attractive vehicle to me, just not the price.  A fctp lightning just might make the cut.

No Idea but I’d hope that it’s most of them…

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13 hours ago, slemke said:

 

any idea how many of these FCTP vehicles are being produced?  With Ford bumping up the payload, it’s a more attractive vehicle to me, just not the price.  A fctp lightning just might make the cut.

 

F-150 Lightning FCTP Mannequin SUMMARY
With the launch of the 22MY F-150 Lightning, Ford is implementing a new F-150 Lightning FCTP Mannequin program.

This program will permit dealers to receive one unit of F-150 Lightning allocation ahead of customer order fulfillments.

  • This program leverages the FCTP platform but is designed to help maximize quality at launch and also provide EV Certified Dealers a vehicle to serve as an on-lot demonstration unit for interested customers who want to experience and drive a F-150 Lightning.
  • Vehicle build specifications will be pre-determined by Ford; Dealers will not be able to place or alter orders for their FCTP unit or select from available options.

  • Dealers receiving a 22MY F-150 Lightning Mannequin unit will begin taking delivery mid-May, 2022. Assigned Mannequin units will be built and shipped in phases based on commodity availability. Not all F-150 Lightning Mannequin units will be shipped at the same time.

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On 5/7/2022 at 11:37 PM, Trader 10 said:

It looks like the next gen Mustang is really just a refresh of the current model with carryover powertrains on the same platform and no major styling changes. Looks like the biggest change will be to the interior with the digital dash and large screen. 


yeah it seems to be largely a reskin vs all new.  As others have said, I’d imagine it’s likely to have some sort of provision/change for a battery for hybridization of some sort.

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5 hours ago, rmc523 said:


yeah it seems to be largely a reskin vs all new.  As others have said, I’d imagine it’s likely to have some sort of provision/change for a battery for hybridization of some sort.

Saving lots of money with an evolved design is understandable especially if this is the final ICE Mustang 

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57 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Saving lots of money with an evolved design is understandable especially if this is the final ICE Mustang 

 

Sure, I totally get it.

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I see that Honda sold 18,000 CRVs in April and Ford sold 15,000 Escapes without even adding Bronco Sport sales. Not bad. And in just a few months Ford will be bringing out a refreshed 2023 Escape. The Escape is still an important vehicle for Ford. 

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On 5/9/2022 at 6:03 PM, jpd80 said:

Saving lots of money with an evolved design is understandable especially if this is the final ICE Mustang 

Yes - this makes sense. It’s just that touting it as “next generation” seems a bit overdone. 

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32 minutes ago, Trader 10 said:

Yes - this makes sense. It’s just that touting it as “next generation” seems a bit overdone. 


Why does every iteration have to be 100% different and have ever increasing power?   There is only so much you can do and keep it a Mustang.  And the base engine outperforms a 2000 Cobra already.  At some point it’s as good as it can get and changes just make if different not better.

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1 hour ago, Trader 10 said:

Yes - this makes sense. It’s just that touting it as “next generation” seems a bit overdone. 

Evolution not revolution, there will be some significant changes that ensure it survives…..unlike Camaro, GM is out of ideas there.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, akirby said:

Why does every iteration have to be 100% different and have ever increasing power?   There is only so much you can do and keep it a Mustang.  And the base engine outperforms a 2000 Cobra already.  

 

Ford's approach of incremental, evolutionary changes for next gen ICE Mustang makes sense. With ICE powertrains, there isn't much that can be done economically in terms of improvements.

 

When BEV Mustang Coupe and Convertible come out, more dramatic performance gains should be part of the deal.

Edited by rperez817

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