Raptor R Confirmed with 5.2L V8

[DeluxeStang]

6 hours ago, Stray Kat said:

So yesterday I paid $4.75 for a gallon of regular. Didn’t even pay attention to what premium was. Over $5.00 bucks I’m sure. 
 

If Ford was about to introduce a 21+ mpg Raptor hybrid like the one I described Ford would be taking another blue ribbon, but no they said “let’s just follow Dodge”. Dodge a company who can’t get rid of that thirsty hemi fast enough. Yeah let’s just copy that. 
 

ugh!

I would agree with you if this was meant to be an affordable, popular truck. But this is going to be a very expensive truck with low sales numbers. Maybe 5-10 thousand units a year. If people can afford a 80 or 90k truck, they can afford to fill it up. I feel as though most people who care greatly about fuel economy, but who still want a truck will go with the maverick. It's an affordable, presumably durable, compact truck that gets better fuel economy than basically any compact sedan or hatchback, while having a payload that surpasses the payloads you get with the raptor, TRX, or Tundra TRD pro. The only downside with the maverick is it's towing capabilities kinda suck, which is something most truck owners never do anyway. If you want a fuel efficient, affordable, yet capable truck, the maverick is your guy.Complaining about the fuel efficiency of a high performance truck is like complaining about the price of a car after checking all the option boxes. 

[akirby]

2 hours ago, Flying68 said:

Slipping clutches is not good for low speed rock crawling, torque converter is much more durable for that.  A standard manual with an actual clutch pedal is fine as you can control the amount of slip, but I think most DCT's have a hard time with slipping and in low traction environments from reviews and tests I have seen.  They are better than CVT's, but it isn't hard to be better than a CVT off road.

I didn’t realize you had to slip the clutches that much.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

I would agree with you if this was meant to be an affordable, popular truck. But this is going to be a very expensive truck with low sales numbers. Maybe 5-10 thousand units a year. If people can afford a 80 or 90k truck, they can afford to fill it up. I feel as though most people who care greatly about fuel economy, but who still want a truck will go with the maverick. It's an affordable, presumably durable, compact truck that gets better fuel economy than basically any compact sedan or hatchback, while having a payload that surpasses the payloads you get with the raptor, TRX, or Tundra TRD pro. The only downside with the maverick is it's towing capabilities kinda suck, which is something most truck owners never do anyway. If you want a fuel efficient, affordable, yet capable truck, the maverick is your guy.Complaining about the fuel efficiency of a high performance truck is like complaining about the price of a car after checking all the option boxes. 

Or they’ll just get a regular Powerboost hybrid.

[DeluxeStang]

20 minutes ago, akirby said:

Or they’ll just get a regular Powerboost hybrid.

Exactly, or the upcoming ranger hybrid.

[Flying68]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

I didn’t realize you had to slip the clutches that much.

Low speeds on lots of off road trails with a lot of stop and go due to obstacles.  Rock crawler folks like traditional manuals, but with really low gearing, hence the crawler gear in the manual Bronco.  DCT's aren't geared that low and the constant slow speed start-stop is hard on the clutches in DCT's and even more so in CVT's.  TFL has had issues with Subaru's with CVT's and some small SUV's with DCT's on simple off-road trails when they have done testing.

 

I think for desert running at high speed or rally running, a DCT would be fine, and probably preferable.

[akirby]

29 minutes ago, Flying68 said:

Low speeds on lots of off road trails with a lot of stop and go due to obstacles.  Rock crawler folks like traditional manuals, but with really low gearing, hence the crawler gear in the manual Bronco.  DCT's aren't geared that low and the constant slow speed start-stop is hard on the clutches in DCT's and even more so in CVT's.  TFL has had issues with Subaru's with CVT's and some small SUV's with DCT's on simple off-road trails when they have done testing.

 

I think for desert running at high speed or rally running, a DCT would be fine, and probably preferable.

Makes sense.  But a Raptor R would be more of a desert runner so the DCT would make sense.

Edited June 2, 2022 by akirby

[Stray Kat]

 

[Stray Kat]

10 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

I would agree with you if this was meant to be an affordable, popular truck. But this is going to be a very expensive truck with low sales numbers. Maybe 5-10 thousand units a year. If people can afford a 80 or 90k truck, they can afford to fill it up. I feel as though most people who care greatly about fuel economy, but who still want a truck will go with the maverick. It's an affordable, presumably durable, compact truck that gets better fuel economy than basically any compact sedan or hatchback, while having a payload that surpasses the payloads you get with the raptor, TRX, or Tundra TRD pro. The only downside with the maverick is it's towing capabilities kinda suck, which is something most truck owners never do anyway. If you want a fuel efficient, affordable, yet capable truck, the maverick is your guy.Complaining about the fuel efficiency of a high performance truck is like complaining about the price of a car after checking all the option boxes. 

No offense but you sound like the most predictable guy in the office. The one who is more worried about his job than someone destined for greatness. 
 

Fifteen years ago we heard about hydraulic launch assist or gas over electric hybrids in the heavy truck range to improve performance and fuel economy. 
 

Putting a blower on a V8 is nothing new and adds nothing to your lists of innovation. 
 

Now don’t get me wrong I’m not throwing any shade at the beautiful superchargers out there today. They are wonderful devices and there are many instances where I would want one. 
 

Do you guys understand desert silt? I’m in Florida and here we have fine sugar sand and limestone roads. Every hauled ass down one on a hot dry day in a hot dry week as part of a hot dry month? Dust drives me crazy and only the best filters and maintenance will catch it all. No not even all. Some will get through. 
 

They are playing with warranty fire here. 
 

Someone mentioned how much cheaper it was to just use the off the shelf Predator engine. Granted that’s right to a point but what about the transmission. DCT in the crawl situations? Oh my that gives me a headache just thinking about it. 
 

No gang, and this I know is dumb for me to keep beleaguering my point because it’s a forgone conclusion but I see this as a screwup. 
 

The N/A Coyote is already available in the F150 with the 10 speed. I have been told that trans is modular and any vehicle that has it can be electrified easily. 
 

All it is, is a V8 Powerboost. They might have even been able to get by without even doing new crash testing. 
 

The programming possibilities of having an electric assist when launching or crawling or rock hopping could have been epic. 
 

But no instead we play follow the leader to Dodge. 
 

Whatever guys. 
 

P.S. this could’ve finally delivered hybrid technology to improve the performance and fuel economy on all those Ford powered RV’s, delivery trucks and even the gas Mediums. 
 

Instead we’ll get none of that and maybe beat the TRX to 60 by what a tenth?

 

LOL!

 

 

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, Stray Kat said:

No offense but you sound like the most predictable guy in the office. The one who is more worried about his job than someone destined for greatness. 
 

Fifteen years ago we heard about hydraulic launch assist or gas over electric hybrids in the heavy truck range to improve performance and fuel economy. 
 

Putting a blower on a V8 is nothing new and adds nothing to your lists of innovation. 
 

Now don’t get me wrong I’m not throwing any shade at the beautiful superchargers out there today. They are wonderful devices and there are many instances where I would want one. 
 

Do you guys understand desert silt? I’m in Florida and here we have fine sugar sand and limestone roads. Every hauled ass down one on a hot dry day in a hot dry week as part of a hot dry month? Dust drives me crazy and only the best filters and maintenance will catch it all. No not even all. Some will get through. 
 

They are playing with warranty fire here. 
 

Someone mentioned how much cheaper it was to just use the off the shelf Predator engine. Granted that’s right to a point but what about the transmission. DCT in the crawl situations? Oh my that gives me a headache just thinking about it. 
 

No gang, and this I know is dumb for me to keep beleaguering my point because it’s a forgone conclusion but I see this as a screwup. 
 

The N/A Coyote is already available in the F150 with the 10 speed. I have been told that trans is modular and any vehicle that has it can be electrified easily. 
 

All it is, is a V8 Powerboost. They might have even been able to get by without even doing new crash testing. 
 

The programming possibilities of having an electric assist when launching or crawling or rock hopping could have been epic. 
 

But no instead we play follow the leader to Dodge. 
 

Whatever guys. 
 

P.S. this could’ve finally delivered hybrid technology to improve the performance and fuel economy on all those Ford powered RV’s, delivery trucks and even the gas Mediums. 
 

Instead we’ll get none of that and maybe beat the TRX to 60 by what a tenth?

 

LOL!

 

 

Nah, you couldn't be more wrong lol, I'm the, throw a bunch of crazy ideas at the wall and see what sticks kinda person. For instance, I would love in the top performance version of the s650 was some absurd hybrid 5.2 putting out like 1,000 hp with carbon fiber and active areo. The final ultimate sendoff to the ICE powered mustang. Some people would call that crazy, I'd call it amazing. But getting to the point, as someone with an education pertaining to advertising, I just realize perception matters just as much, if not more, than the end product's actual capabilities. Above all else, ford wants this to be perceived as a cool, badass halo performance truck. A truck with essentially a supercar engine is much cooler than some pushrod massive displacement v8 designed for commerical fleets.

 

Again, it's all about perception, a 6.8 raptor hybrid would be more practical, but the people buying 90k off-road super trucks don't give a damn about practicality. Case in point, the normal raptor is an exceptional off-roader, it gets better fuel economy than the TRX, it's lighter than the TRX, and it's considerably cheaper. If practicality was all off-road buyers wanted, ford wouldn't even bother with a more extreme raptor. Hell, if buyers wanted a practical truck, they'd buy a powerboost f-150. If they wanted an off-road oriented f-150 that was cheaper, easier to live with, and more under the radar, they'd buy a f series with a tremor package.

 

But practicality isn't that important to these consumers. No, the people buying these trucks want the most badass, batshit, craziest truck on the market. The predator engine helps to fulfill that goal. You gotta think about car show bragging rights, about social media clout. What engine will make it easier for owners to boast? The supercar engine? Or the commercial fleet engine? At the end of the day, that matters more than fuel economy, or actual off-road capability. People will almost never utilize the full capabilities of these performance products, they just want something unique that allows them to brag about how they could do crazy stuff if they wanted to. 

 

Also, I live in Utah, the quintessential state for off-roading. People run forced induction setups here all the time, it's not a problem or something to be concerned over. 

[akirby]

In the end the goal is to sell trucks not win some engineering contest.  Only a fraction of these will see extended desert time and none will be rock crawling.

[jpd80]

Correct, it’s called giving the majority of Raptor buyers buyers what they want, a HP V8 option. They’re focused on the thousands of road going buyers, not the dozens of extreme racers ( perhaps there’s an off highway engine for them)

Edited June 4, 2022 by jpd80

[Stray Kat]

I think you guys are misunderstanding me. I’m not advocating for some slow turning heavy duty industrial engine. I’m in favor of a high output N/A engine that could be “supercharged” by an electric motor not an air pump. 
 

Whether that be a 450hp 7.3 a similar power 6.8 or even a more highly tuned 5.0/5.2 Coyote. 
 

 

 

[Captainp4]

2 hours ago, Stray Kat said:

I think you guys are misunderstanding me. I’m not advocating for some slow turning heavy duty industrial engine. I’m in favor of a high output N/A engine that could be “supercharged” by an electric motor not an air pump. 
 

Whether that be a 450hp 7.3 a similar power 6.8 or even a more highly tuned 5.0/5.2 Coyote. 
 

 

 

I disagree with your whole argument and think the gt500 engine is a great option, but the 5.2 gt350 "voodoo" engine paired with a hybrid system sounds like an interesting concept..... electric to make up for the lack of low end with that setup and then high rpm screamer on the top end, would be cool. That was what, 526 hp (?) n/a? Wonder if the batteries could add ~200hp and all the tq it would lose down low.

[DeluxeStang]

19 minutes ago, Captainp4 said:

I disagree with your whole argument and think the gt500 engine is a great option, but the 5.2 gt350 "voodoo" engine paired with a hybrid system sounds like an interesting concept..... electric to make up for the lack of low end with that setup and then high rpm screamer on the top end, would be cool. That was what, 526 hp (?) n/a? Wonder if the batteries could add ~200hp and all the tq it would lose down low.

Except didn't the voodoo have a decent amount of reliability issues? That could be a problem for the development team. The predator seems pretty rock solid by comparison. That being said, I do like the way you think.

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, Stray Kat said:

I think you guys are misunderstanding me. I’m not advocating for some slow turning heavy duty industrial engine. I’m in favor of a high output N/A engine that could be “supercharged” by an electric motor not an air pump. 
 

Whether that be a 450hp 7.3 a similar power 6.8 or even a more highly tuned 5.0/5.2 Coyote. 
 

 

 

I think a 6.8 hybrid would be a logical powertrain choice. But it would almost certainly cost more to develop than what it's costing to just modify the existing 5.2. This would almost certainly require ford to make the raptor more expensive to justify these additional costs. Plus a 6.8 hybrid will likely be considerably heavier than a raptor with the 5.2, harming on and off road capabilities. Finally, while electric motors are great for low speed, low end torque, hence why I think ford should throw the 3.0 hybrid in the bronco, at higher speeds, the benefits from an electric motor tend to trail off. As the raptor is positioned as a high speed dune runner rather than a low speed rock or trail crawler, I just don't see the performance advantages of a hybrid setup for this particular vehicle. Would beat a TRX off the line, but would probably probably get gapped by the time you were going 60-70 or more. By comparison, a 5.2 is going to keep pulling like crazy, giving the raptor r a performance advantage over the TRX at any speed, and in most environments.

[Stray Kat]

We shall see. Believe me I like Ford coming out on top of these things but I like them maintaining a sustainable business model as well. 
 

Maybe they think the Raptor R will fill the void left by the departing GT as their halo vehicle. 
 

 

[Stray Kat]

 

[blwnsmoke]

LOL, He says Flat Plane Crank....   idiot.

[jcartwright99]

48 minutes ago, blwnsmoke said:

LOL, He says Flat Plane Crank....   idiot.

 

They should of corrected that in post production. Nathan is obviously excited and mixed that up. Honestly, TFL has had some really good content lately. I've been watching them for a lot of their stuff pretty regularly. 

[DeluxeStang]

3 hours ago, Stray Kat said:

 

Very interesting how they cite an inside source who claims the final output may be closer to 800 hp. I'll still take that with a grain of salt, TFL's inside sources have about a 50/50 track record. But even if they gave it "only" 750 hp, it would still blow the doors off the TRX considering the fact that it should still be hundreds of pounds lighter.

[Broncofan7]

This looks to be one of Ford's best trucks in a while. Impressive.

[jpd80]

15 hours ago, Stray Kat said:

 

 

Picture of sticker says 10-speed auto at 5.06 minutes.

I don’t see why the engine couldn’t make the same 760 hp as Mustang GT500.

Edited June 15, 2022 by jpd80

[akirby]

6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

 

Picture of sticker says 10-speed auto at 5.06 minutes.

I don’t see why the engine couldn’t make the same 760 hp as Mustang GT500.

Trucks are frequently tuned for more torque at lower rpm which usually lowers the peak hp, but actually I proves overall performance.

[Stray Kat]

Looks like they’re not shy about dust. Lol! I hope and pray this does not become a problem. 
 

The Bronco 2.7 dropping valves has me sick enough. Ugh

[akirby]

46 minutes ago, Stray Kat said:

Looks like they’re not shy about dust. Lol! I hope and pray this does not become a problem. 
 

The Bronco 2.7 dropping valves has me sick enough. Ugh

I was going to say “don’t they know that dust is going to blow up the supercharger any second?” but figured that sarcasm was a little over the top. ?

 

The 2.7L is a manufacturing defect in the valves not a design or performance issue.