FordBuyer Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 31 minutes ago, rperez817 said: I don't think there's a debate, bzcat mentioned the following in the F-150 Lightning reveal thread. The biggest crisis out West is wild fires and WATER or the lack of. Hard to live without potable water. The drought continues out there with no let up. Factor in record heat waves and adaptability is what is facing us. Many believe it's too late to do much about global warming....just learn to adapt and hope for the best. I'm in that camp. Either adapt or not survive. Lots of future migrations coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, FordBuyer said: The biggest crisis out West is wild fires and WATER or the lack of. Hard to live without potable water. The drought continues out there with no let up. Factor in record heat waves and adaptability is what is facing us. Many believe it's too late to do much about global warming....just learn to adapt and hope for the best. I'm in that camp. Either adapt or not survive. Lots of future migrations coming. "global warming"...ok...nothing to do with the States complete mismanagement of water supplies, add severe overpopulation which directly effects consumption....weather is cyclical...Ill even go out on a limb and say one could go back historically numerous times and see similar weather patterns. Im definitely NOT sold on the "warming issue" and its furor...IMO its a direct reflection of human populace, their consumption, waste and complete disregard for the environment...the wildfires directly correlate to human error as well...one of which is ...wait for it...downed power lines in areas where clearing of "fuel" for the fires was ignored...thankyou Mr Newsome. grrrrr….BIG grrrrr Edited May 24, 2022 by Deanh 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30 OTT 6 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 15 hours ago, fordmantpw said: The future of nuclear power isn't the type of plant you think of today. It will be the small modular reactors. There is research being done and they are being pursued. I think you will see some commercially operational in 10 years or so. Side note...I work at a nuke plant that was originally built for 2 units. We started the process to obtain the license for Unit 2 back 10-15 years ago, but abandoned it due to costs. Modular reactors are on our radar to add onsite, but we won't be one of the first ones out of the gate...we're too conservative for that. From what I've read about small modular reactors (SMRs), they can be retrofitted into a current coal-fired power generating plant. The coal furnaces are replaced with an SMR to generate the steam used by the existing turbine and generator system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 2 hours ago, 30 OTT 6 said: From what I've read about small modular reactors (SMRs), they can be retrofitted into a current coal-fired power generating plant. The coal furnaces are replaced with an SMR to generate the steam used by the existing turbine and generator system. What do nuclear subs use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHForman812 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 3 hours ago, akirby said: What do nuclear subs use? Diesel fuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 54 minutes ago, JHForman812 said: Diesel fuel Then they’re not nuclear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 56 minutes ago, JHForman812 said: Diesel fuel ???? Correct me if Im wrong ...but that's for backup in the form of diesel generators no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Deanh said: ???? Correct me if Im wrong ...but that's for backup in the form of diesel generators no? You mean like Fukashima that is still uninhabitable. The back up diesel generators failed I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 9 hours ago, FordBuyer said: Not sure why there is debate on here about the grid and full electric vehicles. They make up about 3% of the total market and are still moving at a snail's pace. With the supply problems now, any goals set will not be met. Not even close. High gas prices will help EV a bit, but again supply problems are not going away anytime soon. So utility companies have a very long time line to improve if and when that time comes. Any debate about the grid that mentioned electric cars is basically being intellectually dishonest or lazy, or maybe both. As I mention before, crypto currency mining is drawing more power from the grid now and will do so for a long time. Crypto power draw is constant 24/7 and it serves no purpose. Electric car will charge mostly when generating capacity is just wasted, and it serves a real purpose. And yet, the internet is full of fakenews article being pumped out by rightwing propaganda mills warning about how electric cars is going to collapse your gird. Give. Me. A. F@@king. Break. The grid in North America needs more resiliency. That is not in question. We need more short duration (under ~6 hours) storage capacity so we can time shift the consumption from all the surplus renewable power we are generating. And we need to upgrade and winter proof Texas' grid in particular because shifting weather pattern. Western wildfire and Northeast snow storms have always cause temporary problems but they now occur more frequently so yes, that's an issue but it's not inherently a grid problem - it is a weather problem - you know... the one that we are trying to solve by not burning any more fossil fuel! But we do not need a huge increase in generating capacity. We managed to handle crypto surge without building a single nuclear power plant. Why would we need to do that for electric cars which is projected to draw less power than crypto mining? Just think about it... what these rightwing fakenews mills are saying do not making any sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 hour ago, bzcat said: Any debate about the grid that mentioned electric cars is basically being intellectually dishonest or lazy, or maybe both. As I mention before, crypto currency mining is drawing more power from the grid now and will do so for a long time. Crypto power draw is constant 24/7 and it serves no purpose. Electric car will charge mostly when generating capacity is just wasted, and it serves a real purpose. And yet, the internet is full of fakenews article being pumped out by rightwing propaganda mills warning about how electric cars is going to collapse your gird. Give. Me. A. F@@king. Break. The grid in North America needs more resiliency. That is not in question. We need more short duration (under ~6 hours) storage capacity so we can time shift the consumption from all the surplus renewable power we are generating. And we need to upgrade and winter proof Texas' grid in particular because shifting weather pattern. Western wildfire and Northeast snow storms have always cause temporary problems but they now occur more frequently so yes, that's an issue but it's not inherently a grid problem - it is a weather problem - you know... the one that we are trying to solve by not burning any more fossil fuel! But we do not need a huge increase in generating capacity. We managed to handle crypto surge without building a single nuclear power plant. Why would we need to do that for electric cars which is projected to draw less power than crypto mining? Just think about it... what these rightwing fakenews mills are saying do not making any sense. Just think how much power demands have increased in last 50 years. When I was a kid, we had one TV, not 4, a window A/C unit, no central air until 1974, no desktop computer until the 90's, no laptop until about same time, no smart phone until about 2009, and no tablet until a little later......all having to be charged up regularly. Most power tools like drills also have batteries that have to be charged even before we get to electric vehicles. Seems to me utility companies have kept up with increasing power demands no problem. Only problem seems to be extreme weather events and above ground power lines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, bzcat said: Any debate about the grid that mentioned electric cars is basically being intellectually dishonest or lazy, or maybe both. As I mention before, crypto currency mining is drawing more power from the grid now and will do so for a long time. Crypto power draw is constant 24/7 and it serves no purpose. Electric car will charge mostly when generating capacity is just wasted, and it serves a real purpose. And yet, the internet is full of fakenews article being pumped out by rightwing propaganda mills warning about how electric cars is going to collapse your gird. Give. Me. A. F@@king. Break. The grid in North America needs more resiliency. That is not in question. We need more short duration (under ~6 hours) storage capacity so we can time shift the consumption from all the surplus renewable power we are generating. And we need to upgrade and winter proof Texas' grid in particular because shifting weather pattern. Western wildfire and Northeast snow storms have always cause temporary problems but they now occur more frequently so yes, that's an issue but it's not inherently a grid problem - it is a weather problem - you know... the one that we are trying to solve by not burning any more fossil fuel! But we do not need a huge increase in generating capacity. We managed to handle crypto surge without building a single nuclear power plant. Why would we need to do that for electric cars which is projected to draw less power than crypto mining? Just think about it... what these rightwing fakenews mills are saying do not making any sense. In regards to crypto, the utility company I work for has actually set up a crypto mining farm to help even out the load on the grid. When there is excess power, the crypto farm kicks it up a notch, and when more power is needed, it tones it down. It's much quicker and easier to turn a crypto farm up or down than it is a power plant. Without the crypto farm, much of that excess energy would be wasted. Edited May 25, 2022 by fordmantpw 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Info on how a couple automakers, Ford and BMW, are working with PG&E in California to improve resilience of the electric grid there. Ford energy management improvements using vehicle-to-grid technology. Ford Pro Leading Companies into Electrified Future with Electric Vehicles, Charging Solutions, In-Vehicle Software | Ford Media Center, PG&E Corporation - PG&E and Ford Collaborate on Bidirectional Electric Vehicle Charging Technology in Customers’ Homes (pgecorp.com) BMW Charge Forward program, vehicle-to-grid system that aims to use as much solar energy as possible to charge electric vehicles and keep the electric grid stable. BMW ChargeForward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 We need more battery storage to collect off peak power and release it during the day. That doesn’t necessarily mean electric batteries. There are places today that pump water up to an elevated lake at night then release it during the day to generate electricity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 hour ago, akirby said: We need more battery storage to collect off peak power and release it during the day. That doesn’t necessarily mean electric batteries. There are places today that pump water up to an elevated lake at night then release it during the day to generate electricity. Agreed! We've got one of those too. There is a bunch of research being done on that, including batteries at individual substations (battery technology needs to improve greatly) as well as hydrogen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 17 hours ago, FordBuyer said: You mean like Fukashima that is still uninhabitable. The back up diesel generators failed I believe. maybe they should have had electric right?....lol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 2 hours ago, akirby said: We need more battery storage to collect off peak power and release it during the day. That doesn’t necessarily mean electric batteries. There are places today that pump water up to an elevated lake at night then release it during the day to generate electricity. and right now they are in the throws of dismantling 4 hydro electric dams......go figure.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 2 hours ago, akirby said: We need more battery storage to collect off peak power and release it during the day. That doesn’t necessarily mean electric batteries. There are places today that pump water up to an elevated lake at night then release it during the day to generate electricity. It's "all of the above approach". Pumped hydro, other gravity storage, batteries, compressed air in salt mines, even turning the electric cars themselves into storage. Grid resiliency may actually improve significantly once all those electric cars are plugged into the grid and can power your house. Power generation is fairly reliable in the US... we don't need any new nuclear plant and for sure no need for any new coal plants. We are adding so much renewable capacity (mostly wind and solar) into the grid right now we can easily lift the peak power output. But we don't have enough storage to save the excess power for peak consumption. This is why we need more storage capacity to the grid, not more fossil fuel or nuclear power generating capacity. If you can understand what I just wrote, you are better informed than 99% of the population on this subject. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 18 minutes ago, bzcat said: It's "all of the above approach". Pumped hydro, other gravity storage, batteries, compressed air in salt mines, even turning the electric cars themselves into storage. Grid resiliency may actually improve significantly once all those electric cars are plugged into the grid and can power your house. Power generation is fairly reliable in the US... we don't need any new nuclear plant and for sure no need for any new coal plants. We are adding so much renewable capacity (mostly wind and solar) into the grid right now we can easily lift the peak power output. But we don't have enough storage to save the excess power for peak consumption. This is why we need more storage capacity to the grid, not more fossil fuel or nuclear power generating capacity. If you can understand what I just wrote, you are better informed than 99% of the population on this subject. ?....gonna have to enlighten me on this quote..." Grid resiliency may actually improve significantly once all those electric cars are plugged into the grid and can power your house"....so, as mentioned before...you charge a car that in turn powers your house...which depletes ITS battery which needs recharging....its parasitic not self sustaining...theres consumption...NOT replenishment. The rest I agree with, barring half of the country where wind and or solar isn't viable where natural gas and coal are a necessity... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 41 minutes ago, Deanh said: ?....gonna have to enlighten me on this quote..." Grid resiliency may actually improve significantly once all those electric cars are plugged into the grid and can power your house"....so, as mentioned before...you charge a car that in turn powers your house...which depletes ITS battery which needs recharging....its parasitic not self sustaining...theres consumption...NOT replenishment. The rest I agree with, barring half of the country where wind and or solar isn't viable where natural gas and coal are a necessity... Where is it not windy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Deanh said: ?....gonna have to enlighten me on this quote..." Grid resiliency may actually improve significantly once all those electric cars are plugged into the grid and can power your house"....so, as mentioned before...you charge a car that in turn powers your house...which depletes ITS battery which needs recharging....its parasitic not self sustaining...theres consumption...NOT replenishment. The rest I agree with, barring half of the country where wind and or solar isn't viable where natural gas and coal are a necessity... You are not thinking about when the power is used. Solar power is generated during the day (in case that needs clarification) and peak wind power is generated during middle of the night. But peak power consumption is early evening when people turn on their lights and AC at home and start cooking and run laundry. Having a 100 kwh battery (i.e. your car) that can store the excess solar power during midday and excess wind power from 2 am is going to vastly improve the grid because it smooth out the demand and supply curves. The beauty of electricity is consumption doesn't need to take place near generation. Half of the country may not be viable for solar or wind (BTW, that is completely false) but the other half can generate enough to power the grid. In case you haven't noticed, nuclear plant or hydro dams are not in the cities or suburbs even... they are in remote places and yet somehow, your lights turn on. It's like magic! Existing hydro, nuclear and natural gas power will continue to provide significant base loads but their % of the total power is declining every year. Coal is done... it doesn't matter what you think but the US grid will be largely free of coal by mid century. Edited May 25, 2022 by bzcat 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 hour ago, bzcat said: You are not thinking about when the power is used. Solar power is generated during the day (in case that needs clarification) and peak wind power is generated during middle of the night. But peak power consumption is early evening when people turn on their lights and AC at home and start cooking and run laundry. Having a 100 kwh battery (i.e. your car) that can store the excess solar power during midday and excess wind power from 2 am is going to vastly improve the grid because it smooth out the demand and supply curves. The beauty of electricity is consumption doesn't need to take place near generation. Half of the country may not be viable for solar or wind (BTW, that is completely false) but the other half can generate enough to power the grid. In case you haven't noticed, nuclear plant or hydro dams are not in the cities or suburbs even... they are in remote places and yet somehow, your lights turn on. It's like magic! Existing hydro, nuclear and natural gas power will continue to provide significant base loads but their % of the total power is declining every year. Coal is done... it doesn't matter what you think but the US grid will be largely free of coal by mid century. Point is , its NOT all roses when it comes to solar...and wind...theres PLENTY of areas in the US where weather puts paid to its viability. Theres also several other mitigating reasons its not THE go to right now..the future remains questionable.....Interesting snippet...( Im plagiarizing but this article outlines weakness's, Im NOT sold, and I even have solar on my house ) A number of factors have been holding back solar panels from becoming a leading source of energy in world. The first being the cost; the initial capital cost required for installation is very high relative to other energy sources. There is a positive return on investment (ROI) in the future; however, it is slow and can take up to a few years. This eliminates demographics, such as low-income households, from being solar panel owners. It also makes it an unattractive business prospect to build large solar farms or even produce solar panels. Recently, a project to build a solar farm that would supply 15% of Europe’s power failed because the cost of power transmission did not drop as quickly as the price of solar panels. Currently, producing electricity from solar panels is 2 to 3 times more expensive than from hydro, coal, or nuclear energy sources. However, things are looking up as the price of solar panels has decreased almost 65% in the last decade. A second factor is the overall grid infrastructure. The available power grid infrastructure was built to work with consistent power generation levels and these grids may not be able to cope with the inconsistency of solar energy. Another factor that reduces the competitiveness of solar energy is how often electricity is produced; also known as its capacity factor. Generally, a solar farm runs at 15% capacity. For reference, a coal plant can operate at up to 80 % capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHForman812 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 23 hours ago, Deanh said: ???? Correct me if Im wrong ...but that's for backup in the form of diesel generators no? sorry guys I was trying to be funny. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 47 minutes ago, JHForman812 said: sorry guys I was trying to be funny. LMAO...went over my head...Im like whaaaaaaaa?....I thought the Nuclear subs ran on Solar anyways... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 Sorry, but the Ukraine war has nothing to do with fuel price increases! The Biden/liberal agenda is to make energy companies and car mfrs. reduce the carbon footprint and make things more difficult and costly for these entities. So they raise prices to do this!! I've said this before: You can't reduce the carbon footprint of a carbon based planet, which the Earth is! The oxygen and CO2 that humans inhale and exhale respectively -- and trees do the opposite -- all comes from low altitude atmospheric levels. There's no oxygen at 30,000 feet, right? That's why they pressurize plane cabins! That greenhouse effect is pure nonsense! We've had climate change events for millions of years! There were no cars and industrial plants back then! Automobiles and industrial plants don't emit the CO2 that human exhalation, rotting vegetation and volcanoes do! Every human exhales 2.2 lbs. of CO2 per day. The population of the US and the world has doubled over the last 50 years!! So let's do away with people!! Hmmm..................If climate change is coming, THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO STOP IT!! You can reduce the impact maybe. And this is why the millionaires with boats and mansions on rivers and coastlines want middle income America (as in construction workers) to build seawalls and then have middle income America pay for it! Poor people don't work, therefore don't pay income taxes. The rich don't do any hands-on work and bypass paying income taxes via loopholes. Middle income America does all the work and pays all the taxes!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted July 11, 2022 Author Share Posted July 11, 2022 As the monitor quoted in the OP warned, here it comes: Quote The Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT), which operates the state of Texas' electric power grid, on Sunday warned of the potential for rolling blackouts on Monday. The state faces a "potential reserve capacity shortage with no market solution available," ERCOT said in an operating notice posted on its website. Record temperatures are expected across much of the state on Monday. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/texas-grid-operator-warns-of-potential-rolling-blackouts-on-monday/ar-AAZqZ9w?li=BBnb7Kz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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