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Next Gen Mustang Tomorrow?


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21 minutes ago, Twin Turbo said:

 

I hope he's wrong, or S650 will be dead in the water as far as the rest of the world is concerned. Ecoboosts just didn't sell that well (here in the UK, 80% of sales were for the V8)...........so unless the V8 hybrid makes it over here, they may as well forget overseas sales :(


Who said they would 5.0?

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Well, of course Ford won't confirm or deny if the 5.0 hybrid was ever a thing. 99% of what is discussed here is speculation. But if they want to sell any V8s post 2025 in Europe, then it'd have to be a hybrid. And I'm sure the business case wouldn't stack up in order to sell just the Ecoboost over here.

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2 hours ago, Twin Turbo said:

Well, of course Ford won't confirm or deny if the 5.0 hybrid was ever a thing. 99% of what is discussed here is speculation. But if they want to sell any V8s post 2025 in Europe, then it'd have to be a hybrid. And I'm sure the business case wouldn't stack up in order to sell just the Ecoboost over here.

 

I'm pretty sure V8 is on the way out no matter what. Even Mercedes is getting out of the V8 business - the new AMG "63" models are going to be powered by 2.0 turbo hybrid... which makes me really want to snatch up a current gen E63 before it is gone.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Ford doesn't sell the 5.0 in Europe after 2025. Ford is probably taking a wait and see approach. They can get the 3.0 or 3.5 EB in the Mustang really quickly if they want. But I suspect 2.3 EB will be the main focus for S650 worldwide.

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9 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

I'm pretty sure V8 is on the way out no matter what. Even Mercedes is getting out of the V8 business - the new AMG "63" models are going to be powered by 2.0 turbo hybrid... which makes me really want to snatch up a current gen E63 before it is gone.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Ford doesn't sell the 5.0 in Europe after 2025. Ford is probably taking a wait and see approach. They can get the 3.0 or 3.5 EB in the Mustang really quickly if they want. But I suspect 2.3 EB will be the main focus for S650 worldwide.

Problem is that 2.3 sells like a bucket of shit internationally, people who buy Mustang want the V8, that’s why Ford desperately tries to put fake V8 sound into the interior….

Wanna change that?
Rebadge as Ford Capri RS 3100  with Powerboost 3.0 EB TTV6, you will drive the Brits nuts….

Edited by jpd80
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29 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Problem is that 2.3 sells like a bucket of shit internationally, people who buy Mustang want the V8, that’s why Ford desperately tries to put fake V8 sound into the interior….


Yes but if the V8 isn’t available then that might be the only option.

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19 minutes ago, akirby said:


Yes but if the V8 isn’t available then that might be the only option.

At that point, most international buyers would probably prefer a BEV over that….Mustang is expensive as RHD

Edited by jpd80
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19 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

I suspect the Mustang would be better off without that wide V8, could narrow and lighten the 'Stang a bit and get back to the classic proportions. The Ecoboost V6 would be a perfect match, and the Ecoboost 4 would have less weight to drag around.

TTV6 is just as wide as V8 Coyote because turbos an manifolds stick out….

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11 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

I suspect the Mustang would be better off without that wide V8, could narrow and lighten the 'Stang a bit and get back to the classic proportions. 

 

The Mustang in't that big to start with-its roughly the same length as a mid sized car and about the width of a compact car. I don't think most buyers want a car that is wrapped around them that do buy them these days. Back 50-60 years ago you didn't have crumple zones etc that are required today. Not to mention the Ecoboost Mustang can outperform most of the cars from the 1960s and 1970s anyways.

 

Going back to the hybrid thing with the Mustang-I don't see any reason why they can't have a powerboost 2.3L option on it...could share its drivetrain with the upcoming Ranger Hybrid and I'm assuming Bronco hybrid whenever that comes. Given that the power boost gives about 55HP plus about 100 ft-lb torque, a 400-450HP 2.3L Powerboost would make a fine V8 replacement in other markets. 

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2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

...could share its drivetrain with the upcoming Ranger Hybrid and I'm assuming Bronco hybrid whenever that comes. Given that the power boost gives about 55HP plus about 100 ft-lb torque, a 400-450HP 2.3L Powerboost would make a fine V8 replacement in other markets. 

 

That's personally what I'm hoping for in a Ranger.  My 2003 F150 is like 260HP?  I don't tow, I just need a box to throw crap in once in a while.  I think my F150 is rated for 7k lbs or so.  A hybrid Ranger would do all that, get better mileage, and be easier to park.  All while I can keep a body on frame style truck.  I like the Maverick but need AWD, would like a hybrid, and tow a bit more than the Maverick can handle.

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On 6/4/2022 at 1:58 AM, jpd80 said:

Problem is that 2.3 sells like a bucket of shit internationally, people who buy Mustang want the V8, that’s why Ford desperately tries to put fake V8 sound into the interior….

Wanna change that?
Rebadge as Ford Capri RS 3100  with Powerboost 3.0 EB TTV6, you will drive the Brits nuts….

 

Absolutely this!

 

And that was my point, doing a little more research, the 80/20 split in favour of the V8 was for early S550 sales here in the UK. By the time the '18+ facelift came out, it was 95/5 in favour of the V8.......and then the Ecoboost was dropped from the model line-up completely and the V8 is now all that's offered. Rightly or wrongly, people expect a V8 in their Mustang. It was what made it stand out from the rest. Customers would put up with the rest of the car's shortcomings (at least compared to its more expensive European rivals) because of it character, and much of that centres on the V8.

 

Ford have already announced they will only sell EVs or hybrids in Europe from 2026. So, it's possible they will offer a pure ice V8 for 3 years, 2023 to 2026. If the V8 hybrid isn't a thing, then I suspect they will stop selling the Mustang over here completely after 2026.

 

However, I'm still hopeful. You might have missed this snippet from an Australian article when a Ford Engineer, in Australia for the new Ranger launch had this to say:

 

https://www.motor1.com/news/578055/ford-confirms-next-gen-mustang/

 

"While the V8 is sticking around, Jammoul indicates that Ford is cleaning up the engine's emissions. "What we need to do, though, is make the V8 more environmentally friendly and you need to make sure it’s regulatory compliant. And that’s absolutely something we have worked on and will certainly have in the next-generation Mustang," he told Wheels.

This statement might fit with the rumors about the new Mustang's powertrain having hybrid assist"

 

No, this doesn't confirm a V8 hybrid, but it does indicate Ford are doing whatever is necessary to keep the V8 alive in countries with strict emissions regs........and unless they're going to strangle the V8 in a 1970's style, I'd bet that means hybridization. 

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1 hour ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Sounds like Ford has the same "V8 problem" as GM does with the Corvette- Legacy customers who demand a V8 even though a V8 is no longer needed.


Yes and no. Ford has done a much better job of convincing truck buyers they can do just as much, if not more with a TTV6 over a V8 than GM has. That's why you hear Ford now starting to talk about hybrid Mustangs and why they were pumping up the 2.3 in the Mustang. Mustang Mach E was an attempt at that as well though the message got lost with it being a hatchback/crossover. GM has done none of that with Truck or Corvette buyers. 

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I feel like there is a simpler solution to the V8 problem than people realize: a cross plane crank i4 Ecoboost. The sound of a V8, the performance close to a V8, with the emissions and fuel economy of an Ecoboost.

 

For anyone curious, the Yamaha R1 and MT10 are perfect examples of a modern cross plane crank i4. 

Skip half the video before he starts it

 

Edited by BenRM
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3 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Sounds like Ford has the same "V8 problem" as GM does with the Corvette- Legacy customers who demand a V8 even though a V8 is no longer needed.

 

Need has nothing to do with it. A Mustang is a purchase made with the heart, not the head. Nobody needs anything more than 4 cylinders in a car but plenty of people want 8 cylinders.

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8 hours ago, Twin Turbo said:

 

Need has nothing to do with it. A Mustang is a purchase made with the heart, not the head. Nobody needs anything more than 4 cylinders in a car but plenty of people want 8 cylinders.

Spot on.  I think Ford will continue selling the Mustang with a V8 until it is outlawed. Same with F-series.  It also won’t surprise me if a v8 is the last ice made.

 

 

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10 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Yes and no. Ford has done a much better job of convincing truck buyers they can do just as much, if not more with a TTV6 over a V8 than GM has. That's why you hear Ford now starting to talk about hybrid Mustangs and why they were pumping up the 2.3 in the Mustang. Mustang Mach E was an attempt at that as well though the message got lost with it being a hatchback/crossover. GM has done none of that with Truck or Corvette buyers. 

Rumors are GM will add an I6 to the Silverado and Sierra….now that everyone except Nissan is going the turbo 6 route.  Ford needs to update the ecoboost 6s.  The 2.7 was last updated for the 2018 model year.  The 3.5 was updated for 2021, but the competition has caught up.  If Ford doesn’t keep investing in ice, they will have old stale products that will only move with high incentives.  It will be the early mid 2000s all over again where Ford misread what consumers desired and lost significant market share and profits.

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9 hours ago, Twin Turbo said:

 

Need has nothing to do with it. A Mustang is a purchase made with the heart, not the head. Nobody needs anything more than 4 cylinders in a car but plenty of people want 8 cylinders.

Exactly, if we all bought what we needed, rather than what we wanted, we'd all be cruising around in civics. That's would suck. That being said, if Ford develops a hydrogen powered v8 for the mustang, I could see it being a powertrain that appealed to the heart still. While also being more logic by offering essentially zero emissions, the best of both worlds. 

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7 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Exactly, if we all bought what we needed, rather than what we wanted, we'd all be cruising around in civics. That's would suck. That being said, if Ford develops a hydrogen powered v8 for the mustang, I could see it being a powertrain that appealed to the heart still. While also being more logic by offering essentially zero emissions, the best of both worlds. 

 

Hydrogen? Dream on! It's incredibly expensive, extremely limited infrastructure to support it, etc. Hybrid and plug-in hybrid applications have the best cost/benefit advantage for the next application towards BEV conversion. Practical, widespread hydrogen availability is decades away. 

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