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"Prepare for a brutal future" Farley Tells Dealers


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35 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

I can go on Amazon and find what I need/want or find something really close to it and buy it and have it at my house the next day or so.

 

I'd much rather do that instead of going to Target/Walmart/etc and deal with crowds, not finding what I want,etc.

 

Amazon, Target, and Walmart are all "omnichannel", with both online shopping (including third party sellers) and physical retail stores. This is the model that Jim Farley and his team at Ford are attempting to emulate with their upgraded digital infrastructure and relationship with dealerships.

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16 hours ago, Captainp4 said:

If I could go on amazon and order a new superduty I'd do that 1000% over sitting in a dealer for hours on end. I don't go in any retail establishment anymore unless completely necessary. I wish I could amazon beer and cigarettes, I'd never have to go to any store. -signed 34 year old millennial stuck in my phone

fantastic...now what if theres an issue and you need to send it back....LMAO....BIG difference between basically ANYTHING you can purchase on AMAZON and the second biggest investment of your life.....

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Can't happen soon enough IMO.  Ford needs to own their dealerships and service centers so they can make them adhere to their standard instead of whatever each stealership wants to implement (from well run to a total joke).  They can have a small stock of cars for test drives, then people can order their cars at the dealer via an online ordering experience that THEY go through, with dealer assistance if needed, or better, go home and order exactly what they want online in the comfort of their own home with no pressure from the sales staff.  Service can actually be run properly instead of complete hit and miss it is now.  Just a better overall culture all around is needed.

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43 minutes ago, Deanh said:

fantastic...now what if theres an issue and you need to send it back....LMAO....BIG difference between basically ANYTHING you can purchase on AMAZON and the second biggest investment of your life.....

 

Uh isn't that what a warranty and lemon law is for?

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37 minutes ago, Deanh said:

fantastic...now what if theres an issue and you need to send it back....LMAO....BIG difference between basically ANYTHING you can purchase on AMAZON and the second biggest investment of your life.....


Dean - with all due respect your view of the dealership experience is completely skewed.  We have to put up with bait and switch tactics, losing the keys on your trade-in to keep you there, selling a vehicle out from under you, forcing you to buy add-ons you don’t want like nitrogen and mop and glo and glass etching, hidden fees, price gouging on extended warranties - just to name a few.  It’s not a pleasant experience.

 

Now I’ve had some really good dealers that didn’t do most of that but it’s still a time consuming process.  Being able to go online and order what I want in 5 minutes with a fixed known price and no surprises is a requirement to continue doing business in 2022 and beyond.  It’s what consumers want.

 

Let dealers provide test drives, answer questions, deliver the vehicle and service it.  Help consumers place orders if necessary and have a small inventory of vehicles for test drives and quick sales.
 

Adapt or die.

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1 hour ago, akirby said:


Dean - with all due respect your view of the dealership experience is completely skewed.  We have to put up with bait and switch tactics, losing the keys on your trade-in to keep you there, selling a vehicle out from under you, forcing you to buy add-ons you don’t want like nitrogen and mop and glo and glass etching, hidden fees, price gouging on extended warranties - just to name a few.  It’s not a pleasant experience.

 

Now I’ve had some really good dealers that didn’t do most of that but it’s still a time consuming process.  Being able to go online and order what I want in 5 minutes with a fixed known price and no surprises is a requirement to continue doing business in 2022 and beyond.  It’s what consumers want.

 

Let dealers provide test drives, answer questions, deliver the vehicle and service it.  Help consumers place orders if necessary and have a small inventory of vehicles for test drives and quick sales.
 

Adapt or die.

no ...its not skewed at all...every dealer is different, and your experiences are most likely dependent on your location... theres good and bad Dealers, I don't deny that, and the experience can be horrid...so NO its NOT skewed in the slightest, Im a realist, nothing more nothing less........but YOU guys are most definitely skewed with blanket statements..I understand FULLY the desire for convenience from a customers standpoints, its basically exactly how I maintain my own clients, they are typed and are in and out in 15 minutes...it DOES promote customer loyalty and referrals. That said this "all about me " mentality Im witnessing from "newer" buyers in some cases has become somewhat extreme...and the "wish lists " are missing an AWFUL lot of details that are glossed over in the interests of ones own convenience...and lets face it, like to admit it or not...basic laziness. Ok...lets take this online BS everyone thinks is the greatest thing since sliced bread...lets compare it with buying a handsaw from Amazon, and SPECIFICALLY how Captain P4G stated he would love to order a truck from Amazon,  I can get on there and do that in 10 minutes right?...sounds like a GREAT way to order a 100k F450….Does that handsaw need to be PDI'ed"....does it have a 55 page ordering guide?...does it incur State AND county taxes?...do you need to supply a Federally accepted form of ID and Drivers licence to purchase? Does it require a trip to the DMV to registed? Does it require a full blown Credit application AND bank approval if being financed...after all, its a tad different that breaking it up into 4 $37 payments.....does it require Insurance? …. but no...god forbid you need to spend some of your precious time completing the second largest acquisition of your life....jeez. The Amazon business model may appeal to you guys, but its not happening soon and is absolutely raft with potential issues, some which may be as unpleasurable as whayt you outlined...so for right now its nothing more than a pipe dream, so I would suggest you guys adamant about "convenience " pull the pants up a bit and deal with it..you do NOT have to put up with the BS you outlined, and seriously half the stuff mentioned...is that seriously STILL around?...that's as bad as "etch a glass and undercoating " You guys got electricity yet, and running water?...lol...I do think Ford will simplify the process, but they will firstly need to simply there ordering matrix's, BUT theres no avoiding certain process that are incurred when purchasing a vehicle...its not just hitting "ENTER" on a keyboard...there HAS to be accountability, espec ially given all the "flakes" we encounter with massive dreams and no ability to fufil them....So, you can state my view is "skewed" but I literally deal with it day to day...do you guys?...anyone?...or are you just basically voicing your OWN skewed opinions...I think we may perhaps BOTH be a tad guilty...rant over. Fiesty?...lol...you try living with being White ( racist ) Hetrosexual ( lack of empathy ) working ( lean Republican ) AND being a sales rep for 30 plus years ( scumbag just a step above Lawyers )

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1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Uh isn't that what a warranty and lemon law is for?

you bought the car from Amazon remember, they have a free return policy...( sarcasm ) and you guys may like this, buts as of late it truly seems like Ford Corporate is hell bent on making life difficult for their Dealer base...soi far everywhere they have interjected has been basically a total failure, but the picture being painted does NOT bode well for the Dealership body...its almost like they are deliberately trying to make life difficult....we shall see...

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42 minutes ago, Deanh said:

pull the pants up a bit and deal with it..you do NOT have to put up with the BS you outlined, and seriously half the stuff mentioned...is that seriously STILL around?...that's as bad as "etch a glass and undercoating " You guys got electricity yet, and running water?...lol


Happened to me last month on a new Nautilus.  Put down a $500 deposit in transit.  Sold it out from under me.  We found one in stock and they offered an extra $1K discount in addition to X plan to make up for the “mistake”.  Fine.  Then they tried to add $1400 for Nitrogen, glass etching and paint/interior protection.  So yes it’s still happening.

 

If you read the Bronco, Bronco Sport and Maverick forums and Facebook groups the dealer shenanigans are rampant to one degree or another.

 

These are not isolated cases.  The 100% honest dealers are the rare exception.

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1 hour ago, akirby said:


Happened to me last month on a new Nautilus.  Put down a $500 deposit in transit.  Sold it out from under me.  We found one in stock and they offered an extra $1K discount in addition to X plan to make up for the “mistake”.  Fine.  Then they tried to add $1400 for Nitrogen, glass etching and paint/interior protection.  So yes it’s still happening.

 

If you read the Bronco, Bronco Sport and Maverick forums and Facebook groups the dealer shenanigans are rampant to one degree or another.

 

These are not isolated cases.  The 100% honest dealers are the rare exception.

LIKE I WILL RE-STATE...find the right Dealer....that's on you , but sorry...may require some leg work....ahem....( more bloody sarcasm ) I find it interesting people so hell bent on the conveininet lifestyle of cell phones and the ENTER button on their Computer, and ironically the same individuals so eager to post an online review....perhaps don't utilize that very avenue to research local dealers....too much work again? ( and that's not directed at you personally akirby..its DIRECTLY at the lazy bastards that are preaching convenience and NOT having to lift a finger )...analogy...Id like to be a scratch Golfer without having to put any work in either....

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1 hour ago, akirby said:


Happened to me last month on a new Nautilus.  Put down a $500 deposit in transit.  Sold it out from under me.  We found one in stock and they offered an extra $1K discount in addition to X plan to make up for the “mistake”.  Fine.  Then they tried to add $1400 for Nitrogen, glass etching and paint/interior protection.  So yes it’s still happening.

 

If you read the Bronco, Bronco Sport and Maverick forums and Facebook groups the dealer shenanigans are rampant to one degree or another.

 

These are not isolated cases.  The 100% honest dealers are the rare exception.

where the hell do you live to encounter such antique practices?....that's nuts, but yes..still happens...but realize that's ONE dealer ...theres how m any in the country?

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2 hours ago, Deanh said:

LIKE I WILL RE-STATE...find the right Dealer....that's on you , but sorry...may require some leg work....ahem....( more bloody sarcasm ) I find it interesting people so hell bent on the conveininet lifestyle of cell phones and the ENTER button on their Computer, and ironically the same individuals so eager to post an online review....perhaps don't utilize that very avenue to research local dealers....too much work again? ( and that's not directed at you personally akirby..its DIRECTLY at the lazy bastards that are preaching convenience and NOT having to lift a finger )...analogy...Id like to be a scratch Golfer without having to put any work in either....

 

We shouldn't have to visit multiple dealers to find the right dealer.  What a complete waste of time that is on every potential new car owner.  All dealers should treat their customers properly and cut the crap with all the shananigans.

 

To say I have to shop multiple dealers to find the right one is ridiculous. Akirby's way completely cuts that out of the picture about worrying which one is the right one.

 

How about Ford pull the franchise agreements from the dealers that are not the right dealers.

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32 minutes ago, blwnsmoke said:

 

We shouldn't have to visit multiple dealers to find the right dealer.  What a complete waste of time that is on every potential new car owner.  All dealers should treat their customers properly and cut the crap with all the shananigans.

 

To say I have to shop multiple dealers to find the right one is ridiculous. Akirby's way completely cuts that out of the picture about worrying which one is the right one.

 

How about Ford pull the franchise agreements from the dealers that are not the right dealers.

 

I went through some complete and utter BS before I bought my BL MKZ.  I still cannot get over the dealership I dealt with in Orlando that promised me they would fix the small chips in the paint on a MKZ I was looking at and fix the curb rash on the rims only to backtrack and tell me "it's a used car you buy them as is get over it" then on top of that proceed to take more off my trade in because of "added miles" from going to and from the dealership in 2 days.  They lost an easy sale there.

 

And for what it was worth it was a CPO MKZ with around 15k miles no reason they couldn't have fixed those minor imperfections he made it sound like it was a 10 year old used car with 100k miles.

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55 minutes ago, blwnsmoke said:

 

We shouldn't have to visit multiple dealers to find the right dealer.  What a complete waste of time that is on every potential new car owner.  All dealers should treat their customers properly and cut the crap with all the shananigans.

 

To say I have to shop multiple dealers to find the right one is ridiculous. Akirby's way completely cuts that out of the picture about worrying which one is the right one.

 

How about Ford pull the franchise agreements from the dealers that are not the right dealers.

Really?....yes you do...is that unfortunate ? or is it a pain in the ass having to do what you perceive as un-necessary legwork? ...I liken it to going out for Dinner...you find the one you like...they are all in the same business...why is one significantly better than the other ?...no two business's even if they supply the same product, are exactly the same...never have been never will be, because , and Ive said this before as well....its the personnel and employees that make the difference.....you are welcome to correct me if you think Im wrong....but that's like stating every customer should be easy to get financed because everyone should just be a clone of each other.......

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20 minutes ago, Deanh said:

Really?....yes you do...is that unfortunate ? or is it a pain in the ass having to do what you perceive as un-necessary legwork? ...I liken it to going out for Dinner...you find the one you like...they are all in the same business...why is one significantly better than the other ?...no two business's even if they supply the same product, are exactly the same...never have been never will be, because , and Ive said this before as well....its the personnel and employees that make the difference.....you are welcome to correct me if you think Im wrong....but that's like stating every customer should be easy to get financed because everyone should just be a clone of each other.......

Poor analogy.

 

A better analogy would having to find the McDonald's he likes. No one does that because they're all essentially the same. They all sell the same products for the same price. Now we all have had a bad experience at a given McD's, but by and large the stores are held to the same standards and McDonald's is able to police its franchises for adhering to their 'formula'. 

 

Using this analogy (and it's your analogy), why should the average consumer need to search through several Ford dealers? BS. I understand your frustration because you obviously hold yourself to a high standard and deliver for your customers, but you need to listen to what most posters are telling you here: you are truly an exception, not the rule. Probably every one of us can tell stories about dealership experiences that are similar to the negative ones posted here. I truly believe there are dealers that set high standards and strive to be the best. There are too many dealers that don't, and the franchise model (along with local politicians) protect them far too much.

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24 minutes ago, akirby said:

Dean thinks these are isolated incidents.  They’re not.  And with Lincoln you must be relatively close to the dealer for vehicle pickup and delivery so options are limited.

you cannot tell me this is more common than not...just because this situation happens now and then does not make it a norm, as some here are making it out to be...I would say the percentage most definitely leans the other way. I know this shit gos on....we have basically 10 -15 dealers here within a 80 mile radius, so I hear all the stories...but thats Ford....not Lincoln as such where theres less choices so the situation is somewhat different. I suggest you look up the glorious YELP ratings to do some homework before you venture out...As for the online, that will come with its own set of issues for people to gripe about so careful what you swish for. As for expecting every store to be exactly the same experience no matter where you go...that's, sorry...extremely naïve...  

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21 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

Poor analogy.

 

A better analogy would having to find the McDonald's he likes. No one does that because they're all essentially the same. They all sell the same products for the same price. Now we all have had a bad experience at a given McD's, but by and large the stores are held to the same standards and McDonald's is able to police its franchises for adhering to their 'formula'. 

 

Using this analogy (and it's your analogy), why should the average consumer need to search through several Ford dealers? BS. I understand your frustration because you obviously hold yourself to a high standard and deliver for your customers, but you need to listen to what most posters are telling you here: you are truly an exception, not the rule. Probably every one of us can tell stories about dealership experiences that are similar to the negative ones posted here. I truly believe there are dealers that set high standards and strive to be the best. There are too many dealers that don't, and the franchise model (along with local politicians) protect them far too much.

Personel make the difference Harley...NOT the final product if in fact said product is precisely the same between stores ( well Im a Filet of Fish addict and there is one McD's in particular that's just better ) ...and yes, its easy for me to say as I have clients that go back 25 plus years.....I think a BIG issue is you wont find many representatives that have been at the same store for any extended period, cant build up a long term relationship with a guy that leaves after 6 months...so, riddle me this....why is that lack of experience becoming so common place?.....

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I can respect each opinion from Dean and Kirby. Pre pandemic, I would of said that 50/50 dealers would be good vs bad. However at this point, I think it's about 90/10 bad vs good. I think most dealers have really overplayed their hand by being greedy. I get it is a free market, and there is nothing to bind them to sell vehicles at MSRP. However this is more than that. This is dealers exploiting the situation for over 2 years straight. Automatically charging 5k-10k for anything on the lot. Changing agreements, selling orders right from the people who ordered them etc. We've heard the stories. We know it happens a lot. Don't you think Ford is hearing this too and the frustration of customers who preorder/reserve a mach e, maverick, bronco, and bronco sport only to find that the dealer has decided to tack on 10k of ADM when they go pick it up. 

 

This has been a long time coming. I am not sure how this shakes out but the dealer model was broken to a degree before this. The pandemic has just magnified it to where anyone who looks at it says that isn't right. Now I do think dealerships will be around but the will need to change to focus on where they make their money, service and maintenance.  Just my opinion, I am merely guessing on how this all shakes out. It's clear that with franchise laws for dealers, there will be blood and attorneys will make lots of money in court. 

 

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27 minutes ago, jcartwright99 said:

I can respect each opinion from Dean and Kirby. Pre pandemic, I would of said that 50/50 dealers would be good vs bad. However at this point, I think it's about 90/10 bad vs good. I think most dealers have really overplayed their hand by being greedy. I get it is a free market, and there is nothing to bind them to sell vehicles at MSRP. However this is more than that. This is dealers exploiting the situation for over 2 years straight. Automatically charging 5k-10k for anything on the lot. Changing agreements, selling orders right from the people who ordered them etc. We've heard the stories. We know it happens a lot. Don't you think Ford is hearing this too and the frustration of customers who preorder/reserve a mach e, maverick, bronco, and bronco sport only to find that the dealer has decided to tack on 10k of ADM when they go pick it up. 

 

This has been a long time coming. I am not sure how this shakes out but the dealer model was broken to a degree before this. The pandemic has just magnified it to where anyone who looks at it says that isn't right. Now I do think dealerships will be around but the will need to change to focus on where they make their money, service and maintenance.  Just my opinion, I am merely guessing on how this all shakes out. It's clear that with franchise laws for dealers, there will be blood and attorneys will make lots of money in court. 

 

Well stated...yep...the supply issue has had some dealers show their hand as such. But don't feel for a second that Ford has your back and is in no way partly responsible ....some of the Dealers utilizing these practices are also "Heavy Hitters"...yet Ford hasn't cut back on their allocation as rumored at all, and they are still at or right at the top of the Sales charts......there in lies a BIG issue in my opinion and is exceptionally two faced on Ford s behalf....you cant bemoan questionable business practices and announce youre clamping down, and punishing, only to continually reward said Dealers with larger allocations....IMO part of this online process being thrown around is the result of these ludicrous Addendums and questionable practices some are embracing... on the surface it sounds like a good concept but will come with its own set of issues, human nature is to look for the soft underbelly...someone somewhere will find it if the Business model changes...ugh. 

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Obviously 90% of dealers don’t do all the bad stuff but I bet 80% or more have some issues that customers don’t like (even if it’s just not providing order info) that would be mostly solved with factory ordering at MSRP.

 

And if you don’t believe that you haven’t been following the super duty ordering thread or any of the Bronco, Bronco Sport or Maverick internet forums and Facebook groups.  It’s a never ending repeated theme.

 

Supply chain has simply exposed these lazy and/or dishonest dealers who have been getting g away with it.

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The irony of Dean demanding we not make "blanket statements" because of a limited view...while he proceeds to make non-stop blanket statements about an entire generation based on his dealership and few in the surrounding area, out of, what, 3,000+ Ford dealerships nationwide? The reports of shady dealership practices seem to span the country, but he wants to minimize and excuse the behavior and put it on the customer to "do their homework." There are some good points and food for thought in your posts, Dean, but your hypocrisy and inability to acknowledge the other side weakens your overall argument.

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1 hour ago, MadManMoon said:

The irony of Dean demanding we not make "blanket statements" because of a limited view...while he proceeds to make non-stop blanket statements about an entire generation based on his dealership and few in the surrounding area, out of, what, 3,000+ Ford dealerships nationwide? The reports of shady dealership practices seem to span the country, but he wants to minimize and excuse the behavior and put it on the customer to "do their homework." There are some good points and food for thought in your posts, Dean, but your hypocrisy and inability to acknowledge the other side weakens your overall argument.

you need to re read ...Ive stated , pretty much every time that Im fully aware of SOME dealers that do exactly what akirby states...both him and slvrsvt have had personal experiences, and not ONCE have I excused said practices, you are more than welcome to copy/ paste and make me eat crow, but youll be hard pressed as I know I do not excuse that behavior at all. ...and yes...and my point is , you can avoid the issue through pulling finger and making an effort , y'know...old school...right now, given these scrupulous dealers effort is necessary...sorry bout that.

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1 hour ago, Deanh said:

you need to re read ...Ive stated , pretty much every time that Im fully aware of SOME dealers that do exactly what akirby states...both him and slvrsvt have had personal experiences, and not ONCE have I excused said practices, you are more than welcome to copy/ paste and make me eat crow, but youll be hard pressed as I know I do not excuse that behavior at all. ...and yes...and my point is , you can avoid the issue through pulling finger and making an effort , y'know...old school...right now, given these scrupulous dealers effort is necessary...sorry bout that.


You're still not getting it.  Yes, only SOME dealers do the really egregious stuff, but almost all dealers do things that buyers hate.  Such as:

 

Not publishing out the door prices online

low balling trades

clueless salespeople and in a lot of cases clueless sales managers

not managing priorities on retail orders

not providing VVR updates

telling buyers they are not price protected on orders

Not telling customers where they are in the order queue

Pushing marked up ESPs

Forcing customers to wait several hours on paperwork

 

None of those things are necessary and new mfrs like Tesla don’t have those issues.  You can still do all this with dealerships but the roles and process have to change if Ford wants to compete.

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3 hours ago, akirby said:


You're still not getting it.  Yes, only SOME dealers do the really egregious stuff, but almost all dealers do things that buyers hate.  Such as:

 

Not publishing out the door prices online

low balling trades

clueless salespeople and in a lot of cases clueless sales managers

not managing priorities on retail orders

not providing VVR updates

telling buyers they are not price protected on orders

Not telling customers where they are in the order queue

Pushing marked up ESPs

Forcing customers to wait several hours on paperwork

 

None of those things are necessary and new mfrs like Tesla don’t have those issues.  You can still do all this with dealerships but the roles and process have to change if Ford wants to compete.

all valid points, but theres two sides to every coin, some we like some we dont...lets analyse...one can calculate rough OTD prices rather easily if you know your selling price and tax rate...or am I missing something?. Trades...understand that completely...but low balling aside how do you value a car now given a 6 month wait between order date and delivery...and theres also CARMAX if you want a bid date. Clueless sales people and managers...no excuse barring what I stated about job longevity, and that will continue to decline given Income declining due to ever decreasing profit margins. Not a career I would recommend in the slightest. Not managing priorities on retail orders?...lost me there, but not sure how someone can or should be moved up the line over someone else that potentially ordered earlier or doesn't have any commodity issues. VVR...FORD manages Vin Verification not the Dealers, and thgey screw it up regularly ...Price Protection...with you 100%, I think some dealers are gobbling it up...I know we are actually scared of Fords promise it will turn up in the statement in 3 or so months as we have had to fight tooth and nail to be re-imbursed SEVERAL times only to be turned down....if we pass that on and don't get re-imbursed...who eats it?...yep...the Dealer...so that's an ongoing issue, and I have one Transit where the difference is $3900...so what do we do?...that's HUGE!. Not telling customers where they are in the cue????? get back to me on Broncos etc that are pulled at FORDs whim and prayer...we have ZERO idea, especially now with all the supplier issues. Pushing marked up ESPs...totally agree...but they are avail online. Forcing customers to wait several hours?...yep...lets just kick out whos in Finance if its a busy day because youre here...understand people don't want to wait, thius my comments regarding lack of patience...but sometimes that happens...especially on busy days..personally I try and have everything ready before clients arrive...but occasionally I get buried and that doesnt happen...Hey, I here where you are coming from...just realize not everything is perfect and revolves around you. I just went through selling a house and it was a bloody nightmare, but realized, and more importantly ACCEPTED that there would be speed bumps and patience tried..lets not mention some of the erroneous charges...sometimes we need to grow a set and deal. And come on Kirby...DONT use Tesla as the ideal model...you should hear some of the horror stories, its most definitely NOT all roses

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