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"Prepare for a brutal future" Farley Tells Dealers


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not managing priorities on retail orders , Not telling customers where they are in the order queue...based on first hand experience with both my Bronco Sport and full-size...the answer to those two queries land fully at FORDs front doorstep...I could share several stories and the Zones reps complete inability to answer both queries and literally giving up, we as a Dealer had absolutely ZERO control over scheduling or prioritizing..and that's being a Dealer....status's were manually changed several times by Ford themselves , commodity issues I believe and chip shortages. And FYI...there IS some irony here....everything you mentioned is exactly what I try to avoid for my own customers...and YES doing that works in terms of repeat business and referrals...I wouldn't have been doing this as long as I have without a loyal customer base. So, NO...Im not missing anything...

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My vision of the future and the way Ford should go is to turn its franchised dealers into commission sales centers.  Ford sets the price and the dealer gets a fixed commission on each model based on the final price.  The dealer is also provided with floor models at 0 cost for customers to test drive, examine options, and just plain touch and feel.  This would happen every 3 to 6 months or so.  Dealer would determine what the option mix is on the floor models based on what they think buyers in that area value.  After the new floor model arrives, the dealer can sell the floor model as a used vehicle and keep the proceeds.  The allocation system would disappear for customer orders.  Basically it would be a first in, first delivered system (as much as possible, supply chain and all), and therefore it would no longer matter how many orders a dealer had or if it was their mother's brother's cousin's nephew ordering it, all orders are equal with only the time mattering.  Ordering could be done online or in person at the dealer.  In any case the dealer would not be floor planning any new vehicle.  Every order that is made would require a deposit, dependent on the price as ordered.  The pricing would be locked in at the time of order and that would reflected on the window sticker.  As production gets back to normal levels and as capacity allows (customer orders less than capacity), dealers would have the option to stock up to a 30 day supply of vehicles to allow for immediate sales for those people that can't wait (i.e. accidents/thefts).  Pricing of all new vehicles would be fixed, without addon's or markups.  Any extra packages would be optional.  Document fee's would be limited to the lower of $300 or that maximum that each state allows.  Ford would incentivize dealers by paying monthly bonuses for high customer satisfaction ratings.  Rebates would go away, as Ford would be able to dynamically adjust pricing or put things "On Sale" to help move inventory.  This kind of system would be more transparent to the end customer.

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37 minutes ago, Flying68 said:

My vision of the future and the way Ford should go is to turn its franchised dealers into commission sales centers.  Ford sets the price and the dealer gets a fixed commission on each model based on the final price.  The dealer is also provided with floor models at 0 cost for customers to test drive, examine options, and just plain touch and feel.  This would happen every 3 to 6 months or so.  Dealer would determine what the option mix is on the floor models based on what they think buyers in that area value.  After the new floor model arrives, the dealer can sell the floor model as a used vehicle and keep the proceeds.  The allocation system would disappear for customer orders.  Basically it would be a first in, first delivered system (as much as possible, supply chain and all), and therefore it would no longer matter how many orders a dealer had or if it was their mother's brother's cousin's nephew ordering it, all orders are equal with only the time mattering.  Ordering could be done online or in person at the dealer.  In any case the dealer would not be floor planning any new vehicle.  Every order that is made would require a deposit, dependent on the price as ordered.  The pricing would be locked in at the time of order and that would reflected on the window sticker.  As production gets back to normal levels and as capacity allows (customer orders less than capacity), dealers would have the option to stock up to a 30 day supply of vehicles to allow for immediate sales for those people that can't wait (i.e. accidents/thefts).  Pricing of all new vehicles would be fixed, without addon's or markups.  Any extra packages would be optional.  Document fee's would be limited to the lower of $300 or that maximum that each state allows.  Ford would incentivize dealers by paying monthly bonuses for high customer satisfaction ratings.  Rebates would go away, as Ford would be able to dynamically adjust pricing or put things "On Sale" to help move inventory.  This kind of system would be more transparent to the end customer.

at least at our place you pretty much described the process.  We get what is called Mannequins which are avail as rentals for those that come into service...weve had Bronco Sports/ Broncos and we have an incoming Lightning...The ordering process you described is spot on  and after signatures we download onto Ford with copies of the order and Drivers lic. Its a shame as described by akirby for instance SOME dealers deviate based on nothing more than their own greed...and we know for a fact they basically just don't care what anyone, including what  Ford thinks. And as Ive mentioned...don't think Ford is innocent here and completely in the Consumers corner...they aren't, and habitually cant organize there way out of a plain paper bag.

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1 hour ago, Flying68 said:

My vision of the future and the way Ford should go is to turn its franchised dealers into commission sales centers.  Ford sets the price and the dealer gets a fixed commission on each model based on the final price.  The dealer is also provided with floor models at 0 cost for customers to test drive, examine options, and just plain touch and feel.  This would happen every 3 to 6 months or so.  Dealer would determine what the option mix is on the floor models based on what they think buyers in that area value.  After the new floor model arrives, the dealer can sell the floor model as a used vehicle and keep the proceeds.  The allocation system would disappear for customer orders.  Basically it would be a first in, first delivered system (as much as possible, supply chain and all), and therefore it would no longer matter how many orders a dealer had or if it was their mother's brother's cousin's nephew ordering it, all orders are equal with only the time mattering.  Ordering could be done online or in person at the dealer.  In any case the dealer would not be floor planning any new vehicle.  Every order that is made would require a deposit, dependent on the price as ordered.  The pricing would be locked in at the time of order and that would reflected on the window sticker.  As production gets back to normal levels and as capacity allows (customer orders less than capacity), dealers would have the option to stock up to a 30 day supply of vehicles to allow for immediate sales for those people that can't wait (i.e. accidents/thefts).  Pricing of all new vehicles would be fixed, without addon's or markups.  Any extra packages would be optional.  Document fee's would be limited to the lower of $300 or that maximum that each state allows.  Ford would incentivize dealers by paying monthly bonuses for high customer satisfaction ratings.  Rebates would go away, as Ford would be able to dynamically adjust pricing or put things "On Sale" to help move inventory.  This kind of system would be more transparent to the end customer.


Nailed it

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2 hours ago, Deanh said:

not managing priorities on retail orders , Not telling customers where they are in the order queue...based on first hand experience with both my Bronco Sport and full-size...the answer to those two queries land fully at FORDs front doorstep...


I’m only going to answer this part because you clearly don’t understand the difference in what YOU do vs the other 3000 dealerships.

 

If you had bothered to read the super duty order topic or follow orders on Facebook groups or other forums you would know that there are dealers who leave all their orders at priority 19 (or make them all 10), tell customers they can’t change the priority, refuse to ask the zone rep for a priority 2, refuse to tell the customer their priority, etc etc.  That results in Ford choosing which order to build first rather than the one that’s been waiting the longest.  Good dealers change priorities as orders get filled to ensure the orders are built in the right order if possible.

 

As for where you are in the order queue that is 1000% on the dealer.  Ford doesn’t set priority - the dealers do and they can change it at any time.  Dealers know exactly where an order is in their queue (if they bother to manage it at all) and should tell the buyer “hey I have 10 super duties ahead of you” which is totally different than “I have 50 ahead of you” in terms of order time.  Very few dealers do this.

 

The other area is the VVR.  Ford makes the VVR available to the dealers with DETAILED status once it’s been scheduled and shipped.  Most dealers will not share this with customers.  Some say it’s restricted by Ford (true but that doesn’t apply to the buyer).  Most are just too damn lazy to look it up and just tell the buyer it’s on the way or lie and say they don’t know.  We’ve had buyers print off a VVR and take it to them and say this is what I need and they still tell them it’s not available.  
 

This happens multiple times per week for the last 18 months.  It’s the norm not the exception.

 

Dealers have never had to do this before and some are clueless but most are just lazy and don’t want to do it.  Nobody has control over commodity constraints but everything I just described is 100% dealer’s control.

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2 hours ago, akirby said:


I’m only going to answer this part because you clearly don’t understand the difference in what YOU do vs the other 3000 dealerships. 

 

If you had bothered to read the super duty order topic or follow orders on Facebook groups or other forums you would know that there are dealers who leave all their orders at priority 19 (or make them all 10), tell customers they can’t change the priority, refuse to ask the zone rep for a priority 2, refuse to tell the customer their priority, etc etc.  That results in Ford choosing which order to build first rather than the one that’s been waiting the longest.  Good dealers change priorities as orders get filled to ensure the orders are built in the right order if possible.

 

As for where you are in the order queue that is 1000% on the dealer.  Ford doesn’t set priority - the dealers do and they can change it at any time.  Dealers know exactly where an order is in their queue (if they bother to manage it at all) and should tell the buyer “hey I have 10 super duties ahead of you” which is totally different than “I have 50 ahead of you” in terms of order time.  Very few dealers do this.

 

The other area is the VVR.  Ford makes the VVR available to the dealers with DETAILED status once it’s been scheduled and shipped.  Most dealers will not share this with customers.  Some say it’s restricted by Ford (true but that doesn’t apply to the buyer).  Most are just too damn lazy to look it up and just tell the buyer it’s on the way or lie and say they don’t know.  We’ve had buyers print off a VVR and take it to them and say this is what I need and they still tell them it’s not available.  
 

This happens multiple times per week for the last 18 months.  It’s the norm not the exception.

 

Dealers have never had to do this before and some are clueless but most are just lazy and don’t want to do it.  Nobody has control over commodity constraints but everything I just described is 100% dealer’s control.

correct to a point...I PERSONALLY could not be moved forward...Ford does in fact set priorities NOW because of commodity issues, perhaps not so much in the past but times have changed and theres different circumstances ...we literally get told to delete certain options if they want to move forward or have their priority changed...so yes...they can and do set order priority...Ive had 10s go to 12s and 19s and then cancelled...changes NOT instigated here at the Dealer level, we can jimmy here and there but that's based on allocation ( and that's something else controlled NOT by the Dealer ) . VVR...ok, you really want to go down that road? Its wholly inaccurate and the info doesn't come from the Dealer in any way or form, we can only relay what we can look up and 99% of the time it makes us look like bloody idiots, so Ill raise my hand and state Im literally hesitant...I could give you  a run down of the VVR on my Bronco Sport for proof if you wish...total JOKE. Or, let be more current,  the truck I had arrive today that on VVR shows is still in Kansas on a rail car? as for conveying bad info or just being too lazy to look it up , that's another issue, but flip is you CAN realy the provided info and then look like a friggen dumb ass. I do get your points akirby, but theres a LOT of comments posted that reflect a customer "victim" mentality that borders on intolerable....and its ALWAYS the Dealers fault, and granted sometimes that is the issue, just not 100%. The ONLY thing youll ever read on forums and the likes are people complaining basically, so yeah, I avoid them, they complain specifically thinking it will make some sort of difference, majority of the time it doesnt. I personally hate that whiney bullshit, especially when  the individual relays its because they cant get catered to in specific manners they expect as THEIR time is incredibly valuable and they don't want it wasted, or if they have to make any effort at all, OR if it takes longer than they thought it would..... funny how that relates to some Customers AND some Dealers, like I stated...two sides to the coin.... patience and manners are dying habits on both sides...maybe next time youre in the market you should head down here...lol...seriously I don't have the time or patience for all the BS you've outlined, let alone experienced first hand..

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Ford absolutely does not change priorities from 12 to 19.  If that’s what the sales mgr told you he’s one of the idiots I mentioned earlier.  Changing the order might reset it to 19 but it can be immediately changed back to 12.

 

I’m done.  You clearly don’t want to listen.

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16 hours ago, Flying68 said:

My vision of the future and the way Ford should go is to turn its franchised dealers into commission sales centers.  Ford sets the price and the dealer gets a fixed commission on each model based on the final price.  The dealer is also provided with floor models at 0 cost for customers to test drive, examine options, and just plain touch and feel.  This would happen every 3 to 6 months or so.  Dealer would determine what the option mix is on the floor models based on what they think buyers in that area value.  After the new floor model arrives, the dealer can sell the floor model as a used vehicle and keep the proceeds.  The allocation system would disappear for customer orders.  Basically it would be a first in, first delivered system (as much as possible, supply chain and all), and therefore it would no longer matter how many orders a dealer had or if it was their mother's brother's cousin's nephew ordering it, all orders are equal with only the time mattering.  Ordering could be done online or in person at the dealer.  In any case the dealer would not be floor planning any new vehicle.  Every order that is made would require a deposit, dependent on the price as ordered.  The pricing would be locked in at the time of order and that would reflected on the window sticker.  As production gets back to normal levels and as capacity allows (customer orders less than capacity), dealers would have the option to stock up to a 30 day supply of vehicles to allow for immediate sales for those people that can't wait (i.e. accidents/thefts).  Pricing of all new vehicles would be fixed, without addon's or markups.  Any extra packages would be optional.  Document fee's would be limited to the lower of $300 or that maximum that each state allows.  Ford would incentivize dealers by paying monthly bonuses for high customer satisfaction ratings.  Rebates would go away, as Ford would be able to dynamically adjust pricing or put things "On Sale" to help move inventory.  This kind of system would be more transparent to the end customer.

Is this even possible (esp. set prices) with existing state franchise laws?

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On 6/5/2022 at 1:10 PM, Captainp4 said:

Don't the dealers on here tell us all the time they don't make much if anything on sales? Sounds like this can save them the overhead of a sales staff that doesn't pull in much profit anyway. Focus on service and have a few people there to get people in their new rides when they show up, or walk them through the online process with a set price (or do it for them and have them sign where they need to for the older non tech savvy people).

The original Henry Ford said paraphrasing, "If I can be guaranteed the sale of all aftermarket replacement parts, I'll give my cars away free!"  The money is all made in the dealer bays.  That's why I go to independent repair facilities.

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1 hour ago, Gurgeh said:

Is this even possible (esp. set prices) with existing state franchise laws?


I expect changes to be made or BEV sales will find some loophole.  I also think dealers will eventually go along with it.  It really offers them more profit margin with less work and less investment.

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6 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

The original Henry Ford said paraphrasing, "If I can be guaranteed the sale of all aftermarket replacement parts, I'll give my cars away free!"  The money is all made in the dealer bays.  That's why I go to independent repair facilities.

 

But in the grand scheme of things BEVs are far less complex and require a hell of a lot less maintenance on them-No automatic 7-10K oil changes for example. 

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On 6/8/2022 at 1:28 PM, Deanh said:

no ...its not skewed at all...every dealer is different, and your experiences are most likely dependent on your location... theres good and bad Dealers, I don't deny that, and the experience can be horrid...so NO its NOT skewed in the slightest, Im a realist, nothing more nothing less........but YOU guys are most definitely skewed with blanket statements..I understand FULLY the desire for convenience from a customers standpoints, its basically exactly how I maintain my own clients, they are typed and are in and out in 15 minutes...it DOES promote customer loyalty and referrals. That said this "all about me " mentality Im witnessing from "newer" buyers in some cases has become somewhat extreme...and the "wish lists " are missing an AWFUL lot of details that are glossed over in the interests of ones own convenience...and lets face it, like to admit it or not...basic laziness. Ok...lets take this online BS everyone thinks is the greatest thing since sliced bread...lets compare it with buying a handsaw from Amazon, and SPECIFICALLY how Captain P4G stated he would love to order a truck from Amazon,  I can get on there and do that in 10 minutes right?...sounds like a GREAT way to order a 100k F450….Does that handsaw need to be PDI'ed"....does it have a 55 page ordering guide?...does it incur State AND county taxes?...do you need to supply a Federally accepted form of ID and Drivers licence to purchase? Does it require a trip to the DMV to registed? Does it require a full blown Credit application AND bank approval if being financed...after all, its a tad different that breaking it up into 4 $37 payments.....does it require Insurance? …. but no...god forbid you need to spend some of your precious time completing the second largest acquisition of your life....jeez. The Amazon business model may appeal to you guys, but its not happening soon and is absolutely raft with potential issues, some which may be as unpleasurable as whayt you outlined...so for right now its nothing more than a pipe dream, so I would suggest you guys adamant about "convenience " pull the pants up a bit and deal with it..you do NOT have to put up with the BS you outlined, and seriously half the stuff mentioned...is that seriously STILL around?...that's as bad as "etch a glass and undercoating " You guys got electricity yet, and running water?...lol...I do think Ford will simplify the process, but they will firstly need to simply there ordering matrix's, BUT theres no avoiding certain process that are incurred when purchasing a vehicle...its not just hitting "ENTER" on a keyboard...there HAS to be accountability, espec ially given all the "flakes" we encounter with massive dreams and no ability to fufil them....So, you can state my view is "skewed" but I literally deal with it day to day...do you guys?...anyone?...or are you just basically voicing your OWN skewed opinions...I think we may perhaps BOTH be a tad guilty...rant over. Fiesty?...lol...you try living with being White ( racist ) Hetrosexual ( lack of empathy ) working ( lean Republican ) AND being a sales rep for 30 plus years ( scumbag just a step above Lawyers )



I register/tag/insure my own vehicles quite often from right here on my computer, the interweb is an amazing tool. Loans are easily done through the bank websites as well. I'd rather take the time and do it myself then sit in a dealer and watch and old grumpy guy peck keys on the computer.

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To be fair, we just bought a 2017 MKC from a carmax dealer this morning and process was fairly painless/quick for a dealer... no trade in, just a down payment and financing. The bank caused more of a hold up than the dealer.

That said, it wasn't anywhere near as efficient as it could've been (still took a good 4hours and we went to go get lunch while waiting on the bank because the dealer didn't like the way they did something) We could've done the same things he did and not had to deal with our salesman and our bank bickering back and forth about their specific processes. I got the VIN off the website and had my insurance ready to go before we showed up, we knew which car we wanted after looking on the website and test driving last night. If buying new I'm more than capable of going on Ford's website and picking the options and checking the boxes I want.

I didn't complain or make his day harder while we were there, I know he's just doing his job and they have a process they need to follow.. my point is we didn't NEED him for anything and if you guys don't make anything on sales anyway, what's the point?

 

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13 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

The original Henry Ford said paraphrasing, "If I can be guaranteed the sale of all aftermarket replacement parts, I'll give my cars away free!"  The money is all made in the dealer bays.  That's why I go to independent repair facilities.

 

That's correct Joe771476, in 2019 more than half of gross profits at U.S. new car dealerships came from fixed ops, and more than three quarters from fixed ops + finance & insurance. The figure for fixed ops may be slightly lower as of 2022, but still close to 50%.

 

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7 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

But in the grand scheme of things BEVs are far less complex and require a hell of a lot less maintenance on them-No automatic 7-10K oil changes for example. 

 

This may partly explain why many franchised new car dealers have been less than enthusiastic about promoting BEV. The dramatically lower maintenance, repair, and replacement part requirements for BEV versus ICE mean lower utilization of dealerships' most profitable components.

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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

That's correct Joe771476, in 2019 more than half of gross profits at U.S. new car dealerships came from fixed ops, and more than three quarters from fixed ops + finance & insurance. The figure for fixed ops may be slightly lower as of 2022, but still close to 50%.

 

3.png

 

 

This may partly explain why many franchised new car dealers have been less than enthusiastic about promoting BEV. The dramatically lower maintenance, repair, and replacement part requirements for BEV versus ICE mean lower utilization of dealerships' most profitable components.

Where exactly does the dramatically  lower maintenance come from?  Wipers, tires, suspension, electrical, chassis, etc are all there on an electric vehicle.  Oil changes aren’t what they used to be.  10k interval on new Fords.  Spark plugs are nearly lifetime.  The cabin air filter is more expensive to replace than the engine air filter.  When I was growing up, maintenance was much more and more often.  Oil change 3-4 times a year, spark plugs, points and condenser every year or so.  Belts and hoses…usually kept a spare around.  Not unusual to replace alternators, starters, and water pumps back then.  Point is ice vehicles have gotten progressively better over the years and Bev will be an incremental improvement.  Maintenance just isn’t as big of a deal as it used to be.  I’ve got to take the car in once a year for a state inspection, so everything is done then.

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9 hours ago, slemke said:

Where exactly does the dramatically  lower maintenance come from?  Wipers, tires, suspension, electrical, chassis, etc are all there on an electric vehicle.  Oil changes aren’t what they used to be.  10k interval on new Fords.  Spark plugs are nearly lifetime.  The cabin air filter is more expensive to replace than the engine air filter.  When I was growing up, maintenance was much more and more often.  Oil change 3-4 times a year, spark plugs, points and condenser every year or so.  Belts and hoses…usually kept a spare around.  Not unusual to replace alternators, starters, and water pumps back then.  Point is ice vehicles have gotten progressively better over the years and Bev will be an incremental improvement.  Maintenance just isn’t as big of a deal as it used to be.  I’ve got to take the car in once a year for a state inspection, so everything is done then.

If the question is serious, just Google "do electric cars require less maintenance". Most estimates come in with maintenance and repair costs being reduced somewhere between 30-50%. That's hardly an "incremental" improvement. However, you are right that in recent decades vehicles have in general gotten more reliable (except for electronics) with less required in terms of regular maintenance.

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3 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

If the question is serious, just Google "do electric cars require less maintenance". Most estimates come in with maintenance and repair costs being reduced somewhere between 30-50%. That's hardly an "incremental" improvement. However, you are right that in recent decades vehicles have in general gotten more reliable (except for electronics) with less required in terms of regular maintenance.


But 30%-50% of how much?  Filter and fluid changes are less than $50/yr.

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13 hours ago, slemke said:

Bev will be an incremental improvement.

 

As Gurgeh explained, BEV is much more than an "incremental" improvement, it represents a revolution. Not just when it comes to reduced maintenance but in overall performance, efficiency, and sustainability.

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5 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Using a new 2022 Ford F-150 2.7L Lariat SCrew as an example with Edmunds' True Cost to Own calculator, about $5,400 for maintenance and about $930 for repairs over the first 5 years of ownership. 2022 Ford F-150: True Cost to Own | Edmunds


There is NO WAY to spend $5400 in maintenance on a F150 in 5 years.  Assuming 15k/yr that’s 10 oil changes and tire rotations ($500), tranny service ($200) and maybe a set of tires ($1200).

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11 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Using a new 2022 Ford F-150 2.7L Lariat SCrew as an example with Edmunds' True Cost to Own calculator, about $5,400 for maintenance and about $930 for repairs over the first 5 years of ownership. 2022 Ford F-150: True Cost to Own | Edmunds

They provide no breakdown of where these numbers come from.  They list $132 for repairs in year three.  It has a 3 year warranty.

The Mach e was $3600 in maintenance .  Tire rotations and cabin air filters aren’t that expensive.  The numbers just seem inflated.

 

I googled the f150 maintenance schedule.  Oil and filter changes and inspections every 10k, cabin air filter every 20k, spark plugs 100k.  Works package is $50 or so as stated.  Cabin air filter and tires are going to be similar between ice and Bev.

 

$50 every 9mo to a year is incremental.  Less than a tank of gas.  I’m sure the mach e still requires periodic inspections and tire rotations.  There just isn’t much maintenance required anymore.  Vehicles are much more durable and last longer than ever.

 

 

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15 hours ago, akirby said:


There is NO WAY to spend $5400 in maintenance on a F150 in 5 years.  Assuming 15k/yr that’s 10 oil changes and tire rotations ($500), tranny service ($200) and maybe a set of tires ($1200).

 

Maybe including insurance/registration/gas in that?!

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