akirby Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 22 minutes ago, Deanh said: you didn't mention the absolute impatience current society has . Theres...thankyou to cell phones and a dot com mentality, a severe case amoungst individuals for instant gratification...if its not quick and conveinient the ability to remain focused wanes almost immediately....THIS is the big issue with anything ordered online....orders that fall through....but yeah...lets cater to the squeeky wheels that deem the Dealer model disposable because it doesn't fit THEIR selfish needs....thank GOD I don't think Ill remain in this business too much longer...its much like the 1 - 3% "wokists" bleating and whining, getting their way and counting victories...just a matter of time before the majority wakes up and states "Hold on...WTH is going on here..? " There WILL be backlash....just a matter of time.. If you think only a tiny percentage don’t like dealerships you’re mistaken. We still need showrooms and service centers but not a huge pre built stock inventory. It’s too expensive and wasteful and leads to overproduction and big incentives. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSchicago Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 21 hours ago, rmc523 said: except imo it’s a fine line…..you can only cut back so much sales/volume before people just plain start looking elsewhere. True, it's the reason I haven't bought a maverick hybrid yet. No inventory for test drives, and greedy dealer ADM's if they do have one. I guess I'll order a 23 and test drive it when it arrives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 42 minutes ago, LSchicago said: True, it's the reason I haven't bought a maverick hybrid yet. No inventory for test drives, and greedy dealer ADM's if they do have one. I guess I'll order a 23 and test drive it when it arrives. Order it. If you don’t like it you can either sell it or the dealer will keep it and sell it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, akirby said: If you think only a tiny percentage don’t like dealerships you’re mistaken. We still need showrooms and service centers but not a huge pre built stock inventory. It’s too expensive and wasteful and leads to overproduction and big incentives. that's flooring costs, and nothing to do with consumers at all, that's on dealers...that's also nothing to do at all with the aforementioned "all about me mentality " that based on hands on, is I believe stereotypical of a certain age group/ mentality that exhibits zero patience and then blames it on their "dealership" experience....the process some dislike so much, may have its weakness's...online ordering will come with its own set of issues....so exactly whats achieved ?....that's not moving forward at all, if anything its a sidestep to appease to people thinking hitting the "enter" button on a keyboard is the greatest thing since sliced bread.... Edited June 7, 2022 by Deanh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted June 7, 2022 Author Share Posted June 7, 2022 I think it should go the route if, if you order, you get X discount. If you buy on the lot, it's a set price. The problem with ordering is that you sometimes can't wait 2 months. You get in an accident and total your car, you need a car immediately. The discount will help keep inventory from sitting on lots and reduced footprint but there still needs to be some inventory on the lot for someone who needs it immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSchicago Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 59 minutes ago, akirby said: Order it. If you don’t like it you can either sell it or the dealer will keep it and sell it. I will, but Ford won't accept orders until ordering starts for 2023. They stopped taking orders like 6 months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) 37 minutes ago, LSchicago said: I will, but Ford won't accept orders until ordering starts for 2023. They stopped taking orders like 6 months ago. Cant tell you precisely when that bank opens up...I have a BUNCH of busness's to contact when it opens....Construction, Pool services, retail customers....seems Ford hit a home run, grid I have states Maverick 2023 guides late August Edited June 7, 2022 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 41 minutes ago, blwnsmoke said: I think it should go the route if, if you order, you get X discount. If you buy on the lot, it's a set price. The problem with ordering is that you sometimes can't wait 2 months. You get in an accident and total your car, you need a car immediately. The discount will help keep inventory from sitting on lots and reduced footprint but there still needs to be some inventory on the lot for someone who needs it immediately. that's KINDA whats going on right now...you order the car through COVP when it arrives , on some vehicles theres a $1000 rebate, as well as price protection...latest one I had was a Transit...between ordering date and arrival the price had gone up $3900....yep Three Thousand Nine Hundred...that wasn't a typo. That said...knowing human nature, I truly doubt la $1000 rebate wont cut the mustard... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 1 hour ago, blwnsmoke said: I think it should go the route if, if you order, you get X discount. If you buy on the lot, it's a set price. The problem with ordering is that you sometimes can't wait 2 months. You get in an accident and total your car, you need a car immediately. The discount will help keep inventory from sitting on lots and reduced footprint but there still needs to be some inventory on the lot for someone who needs it immediately. Thats why I think you need a limited inventory for browsing and test drives and for those who can’t wait. Basically a nicely loaded mid model and a fully loaded model in popular colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Deanh said: that's flooring costs, and nothing to do with consumers at all, that's on dealers...that's also nothing to do at all with the aforementioned "all about me mentality " that based on hands on, is I believe stereotypical of a certain age group/ mentality that exhibits zero patience and then blames it on their "dealership" experience....the process some dislike so much, may have its weakness's...online ordering will come with its own set of issues....so exactly whats achieved ?....that's not moving forward at all, if anything its a sidestep to appease to people thinking hitting the "enter" button on a keyboard is the greatest thing since sliced bread.... It’s not about age or impatience. It’s about being able to complete a transaction 24/7 in minutes without needing to contact or put up with other people or processes and not having to negotiate or worry about ADMs. It’s the Amazon model. Not sure why that’s so difficult to understand. Maybe you’re out of touch with online purchasing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) 46 minutes ago, akirby said: It’s not about age or impatience. It’s about being able to complete a transaction 24/7 in minutes without needing to contact or put up with other people or processes and not having to negotiate or worry about ADMs. It’s the Amazon model. Not sure why that’s so difficult to understand. Maybe you’re out of touch with online purchasing. beg to differ...its most definitely is age oriented, theres a distinct age group that is NOT patient in the slightest...its not about having contact or process or negotiation or..or..or ( although that very same group spend more time on their cell phones than actually interacting with others...in fact they would as you state, actually try and AVOID said contact. Its all about their convenience, screw everybody else )..and no..Im not out of touch...this is quite literally whats happening en site....and please be real...a $200 Amazon shopping spree differs from a $70k F150 purchase quite substantially....who exactly gets stuck with THAT if circumstances change?....What about the guy I literally had, placed an order for a Maveric, a Lightning ...AND a full size Bronco...online no less....only for the Bronco to show up to find out he literally damn near would qualify for it if he paid cash?....How inconvenient would it be considered having to make sure and run all the credit checks necessary on a unit BEFORE you actually palce the order???? Like aI stated...for every process or "answer" comes its own set of issues...accountability is HUGE when it comes to online ordering when youre talking not $19.99 plus shipping, but tens of thousands of dollars...FACT...some want to push the "ENTER" button with zero accountability...to me that's the epitome of laziness when it comes to purchases that do NOT fit the "Amazon" business model. Edited June 7, 2022 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) Could Farley be throwing online ordering out there exactly because he’s getting so much push back behind the scenes, could he be using it to force discussion and trample objections like the issues you raised with accountability? Edited June 7, 2022 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 23 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Could Farley be throwing online ordering out there exactly because he’s getting so much push back behind the scenes, could he be using it to force discussion and trample objections like the issues you raised with accountability? That is definitely a possibility and a good insight on your part jpd80. Jim Farley knows that organizational change management within Ford is very challenging, and to your point just getting the discussion going is a big part of changing the corporate culture. Beyond that, Farley has probably studied Tesla's direct to consumer business model more thoroughly than any other incumbent automaker CEO in the world and understands why that model is superior for BEV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 19 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Could Farley be throwing online ordering out there exactly because he’s getting so much push back behind the scenes, could he be using it to force discussion and trample objections like the issues you raised with accountability? there has been a raft of procedural changes that have come directly from Corporate and Ford Credit. All in the interests of making things "simpler" ( truth be told I think sincerely its to streamline Fords workforce and lay some off ) e-contracting and remote signing are two, they do make some things easier but also come with some questionable issues. The COVP is another...lots of promises about not taking away from allocation...and THAT hasn't seen fruition in the slightest....let alone its a somewhat convoluted process that's not 100% yet...theres a couple of guys I ordered for, all hunkt dory and then 6 months later their vehicle isn't getting built...that's wonderful for CSI. Hey...Im all for making things simpler, but in several cases, said "improvements " have been anything but, andthis holy grail of online order will just be a total cluster f__k IMO. Something to be said for one on one interaction and consequent clarification than someone going bat crazy online and then getting pissed some "changes" he made cant be built, or will delay said order. God forbid the Frankenstein bilds that just land at dealers initially ordered that are now "available"... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSchicago Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Deanh said: Cant tell you precisely when that bank opens up...I have a BUNCH of busness's to contact when it opens....Construction, Pool services, retail customers....seems Ford hit a home run, grid I have states Maverick 2023 guides late August Last I heard was Aug 15th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, rperez817 said: That is definitely a possibility and a good insight on your part jpd80. Jim Farley knows that organizational change management within Ford is very challenging, and to your point just getting the discussion going is a big part of changing the corporate culture. Beyond that, Farley has probably studied Tesla's direct to consumer business model more thoroughly than any other incumbent automaker CEO in the world and understands why that model is superior for BEV. Thank you I appreciate that. As Dean just said, many changes coming from Ford Credit to streamline Ford’s side but the checks and balances and follow up with customer orders still fall to dealers. It’s like Ford doesn’t understand the complex problems hiding in expensive transactions …..or do they know and don’t care because the dealers are seen as the unpaid safety net catch all to protect their short falls with customer orders and buyers who just don’t understand or think they can just order any strange combo outside the build profile…..all time consuming stuff for dealers who are supposed to be the ones that are getting cut out of the negotiating process…all very strange Edited June 7, 2022 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 17 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Thank you I appreciate that. As Dean just said, many changes coming from Ford Credit to streamline Ford’s side but the checks and balances and follow up with customer orders still fall to dealers. It’s like Ford doesn’t understand the complex problems hiding in expensive transactions …..or do they know and don’t care because the dealers are seen as the unpaid safety net catch all to protect their short falls with customer orders and buyers who just don’t understand or think they can just order any strange combo outside the build profile….. I don't think its just the Car Industry...but there are decision makers making wholesale changes to a process they have NEVER experienced first hand...its has its warts for sure...but don't come off as a so called expert and mandate sweeping changes when you've never been, let alone conversed with individuals, on the front line experiencing it on a day to day basis... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Deanh said: I don't think its just the Car Industry...but there are decision makers making wholesale changes to a process they have NEVER experienced first hand...its has its warts for sure...but don't come off as a so called expert and mandate sweeping changes when you've never been, let alone conversed with individuals, on the front line experiencing it on a day to day basis... Especially when way back when, those people paid for franchises to be the middle men because you (Ford) didn’t want to deal with all the customers. Sure there’s problems with negotiating new vehicle sales but as I read you, the real issue here is that the people making or calling for change don’t or never have dealt with the so called “customer experience”. Edited June 7, 2022 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Especially when way back when, those people paid for franchises to be the middle men because you (Ford) didn’t want to deal with all the customers. Sure there’s problems with negotiating new vehicle sales but as I read you, the real issue here is that the people making or calling for change don’t or never have dealt with the so called “customer experience”. Ive said it before...Ford NEEDS the dealers as a buffer between them and the Customer...if for nothing more than being their complaint Dept...whenever they interject or take something on on their own accord its a complete shambles...and that's an understatement...You could literally rename Dealerships as Fords Complaint Dept.....the way they handled the Bronco and Maverick orders and now the Lightning are PRIME examples...absolute amateur hour to the point of being humorous...barring the logistical nightmare it has created for us, but nice that we can babysit screaming customers not happy with the process Ford thought was a superior route...cough cough.,.. Edited June 7, 2022 by Deanh 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 20 minutes ago, Deanh said: Ive said it before...Ford NEEDS the dealers as a buffer between them and the Customer...if for nothing more than being their complaint Dept...whenever they interject or take something on on their own accord its a complete shambles...and that's an understatement...You could literally rename Dealerships as Fords Complaint Dept..... LOL, hard to have an argument with a website that just doesn’t respond, so much easier to yell at a person in a physical office….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, jpd80 said: LOL, hard to have an argument with a website that just doesn’t respond, so much easier to yell at a person in a physical office….. did I mention giving vin numbers to people that aren't even their car?...or telling them their car wont get to the dealership for 6 months only to arrive two weeks later?....true stories...and yet I was the one copping the earful.... Edited June 7, 2022 by Deanh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 3 hours ago, Deanh said: ...How inconvenient would it be considered having to make sure and run all the credit checks necessary on a unit BEFORE you actually palce the order???? Like aI stated...for every process or "answer" comes its own set of issues...accountability is HUGE when it comes to online ordering when youre talking not $19.99 plus shipping, but tens of thousands of dollars...FACT...some want to push the "ENTER" button with zero accountability...to me that's the epitome of laziness when it comes to purchases that do NOT fit the "Amazon" business model. Dean, Do you think something like a 10% non-refundable deposit at time of order would eliminate the non-serious online orders? HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 26 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said: Dean, Do you think something like a 10% non-refundable deposit at time of order would eliminate the non-serious online orders? HRG conundrum...right now at least that is not legal...that would act as a deterrent though...a commitment!.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 If I could go on amazon and order a new superduty I'd do that 1000% over sitting in a dealer for hours on end. I don't go in any retail establishment anymore unless completely necessary. I wish I could amazon beer and cigarettes, I'd never have to go to any store. -signed 34 year old millennial stuck in my phone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 12 hours ago, Captainp4 said: If I could go on amazon and order a new superduty I'd do that 1000% over sitting in a dealer for hours on end. I don't go in any retail establishment anymore unless completely necessary. I wish I could amazon beer and cigarettes, I'd never have to go to any store. -signed 34 year old millennial stuck in my phone You bring up a great point-the thing that some people are missing is making something easier to buy online will make people come back and spend more money. My wife made the comment to me after we got married that she knew I was the one for her because I'd go into a store and say oh only if X had this I'd buy it. She was the same way. I can go on Amazon and find what I need/want or find something really close to it and buy it and have it at my house the next day or so. I'd much rather do that instead of going to Target/Walmart/etc and deal with crowds, not finding what I want,etc. I used to enjoy shopping, but not so much anymore, unless its a specialty shop that offers an "experience" when you go-like a local Pet store we take our dog to- the staff loves him and they have events every weekend you can go to at their dog park where he can interact with other dogs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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