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Ford's Mustang Mach-E can lose power while driving -


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Ford's Mustang Mach-E can lose power while driving, forcing dealers to stop delivery

 

The recall affects 48,924 of the 2021-22 Mustang Mach-E electric vehicles, which could lose power while driving or do not start.

A majority of these vehicles, however, are already in customer driveways.

 

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2022/06/14/ford-mustang-mach-e-recall/7622485001/

 

-Ovaltine

 

Edited by Ovaltine
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9 hours ago, slemke said:

I read the initial fix will be an over the air software update.  My speculation is they will limit current flow to keep the temperatures down unless they can increase cooling  around the contactors.


Its only during high current charging and WOT so they’ll obviously limit current flow u til they can come up with a hardware solution.

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1 hour ago, blwnsmoke said:

Does that mean slower acceleration and charging?  

 

Ford's explanation of the problem:

Quote

On affected vehicles, Direct Current (“DC”) fast charging and repeated wide open pedal events can cause the high voltage battery main contactors to overheat. Overheating may lead to arcing and deformation of the electrical contact surfaces, which can result in a contactor that remains open or a contactor that welds closed.

 

Can Ford correct this issue without a loss of fast charging capability? No idea.

It pisses me off that Ford's development process did not catch something like this before it ever made it out the door. Fast charging in particular is a selling point to many EV drivers, particularly those that don't have a level 2 charger at home and charge at public fast charging sites. It's just such a basic capability that it's inexcusable for this problem to have made it to the public.

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45 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Ford's explanation of the problem:

 

Can Ford correct this issue without a loss of fast charging capability? No idea.

It pisses me off that Ford's development process did not catch something like this before it ever made it out the door. Fast charging in particular is a selling point to many EV drivers, particularly those that don't have a level 2 charger at home and charge at public fast charging sites. It's just such a basic capability that it's inexcusable for this problem to have made it to the public.


I agree that this should have been caught in testing.  I will assume they tested this and the reasonable explanation (not excuse) is that something changed either in the software or materials that was not retested properly.

 

I remember the Lincoln LS had many rear door regulator failures.  Seemed strange because the rear windows were not used very often and it was the same regulator used by Mercedes and others.  Turns out there was a last minute change to the window gasket material which caused the window to stick if left closed in hot weather for extended periods.  The front windows were used often enough that they rarely failed.  And the tests were all designed to simulate rapid wear - not designed to let it sit unused in hot weather for days or weeks because that almost never is a problem.  Unintended consequences.  Of course this failure falls into normal test procedures so no excuse there.

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10 hours ago, blwnsmoke said:

 

Does that mean slower acceleration and charging?  

Not necessarily.  Sounded like repeated wot acceleration runs.  So, short bursts might be OK.

As for charging, again, it might be ok for short bursts and then restricted.

 

Ford needs to play their cards carefully on this or risk a big lawsuit if performance is impacted in a meaningful way.

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8 hours ago, akirby said:


I agree that this should have been caught in testing.  I will assume they tested this and the reasonable explanation (not excuse) is that something changed either in the software or materials that was not retested properly.

 

With all the flogging Ford showed in the videos, something should have shown up before this.  Or it did and it was ignored as something that won’t happen in normal use.  Or there is a manufacturing change or defect and the software update is just a patch to keep the cars on the road until fixed properly.

 

The DC fast charging causing a problem is more puzzling as this certainly would have been found.  If not, let’s hope the lightning didn’t have similar shortcomings in testing.  Things get missed in testing, but they are usually corner cases that are difficult to create.  
 

The more I think about it the more likely a manufacturing change or problem occurred.

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Makes me wonder if THIS is why Ford limits it to 5 second WOT.  Because of the high current overheating.. so a work around is to limit it to 5 seconds.  But even at that, doing it multiple times which is what owners are doing who want to rocket around is now making it show up where Ford thought it wouldn't.

 

Hmmm..

 

My plan was to order a 23 GTPE so interested to see what happens with this.  I personally don't like the idea at all of a 5 second WOT limit on their "performance" version.

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9 hours ago, blwnsmoke said:

Makes me wonder if THIS is why Ford limits it to 5 second WOT.  Because of the high current overheating.. so a work around is to limit it to 5 seconds.  But even at that, doing it multiple times which is what owners are doing who want to rocket around is now making it show up where Ford thought it wouldn't.

 

Hmmm..

 

My plan was to order a 23 GTPE so interested to see what happens with this.  I personally don't like the idea at all of a 5 second WOT limit on their "performance" version.

Where did you find the 5 second reference?  5 seconds is enough to put up impressive 0-60 times, but the 1/4 mile will suffer.

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Just heard that there’s a software upgrade  to be supplied in July that should overcome the issue, 

Quote

The issue with the Ford Mustang Mach-E EV is that the high voltage battery contactors, which overheat as a result of Direct Current (DC) fast charging and repeated wide-open pedal events, experience arcing and deformation of contact surfaces.

 

Ford outlines that the issue can result in an electric relay remaining open or welding itself closed from heat, with the former causing a loss of drive and ‘risk of an accident’. 

 

Owners will experience a powertrain malfunction warning light if the relay remains open, as well as a ‘Stop Safely Now’ alert as the vehicle loses drive power.

 

If the relay switch is welded closed, on the other hand, the same powertrain malfunction light will come on, and the vehicle won’t start for the next drive cycle. 

 

A recall FAQ on Ford’s global website explains that the root cause is the high voltage battery main relay switch not being robust enough to handle the heat generated during DC fast charging or flatfoot acceleration.

 

Despite the issue being with the physical relay Ford says the recall will be resolved with a software update either over-the-air or at a dealer from July, with no mention of hardware changes.

 

Edited by jpd80
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6 hours ago, jpd80 said:
6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

 

 

Just heard that there’s a software upgrade  to be supplied in July that should overcome the issue, 

 

What will Ford do about those whose contractors have been welded closed? No software fix is going to unstick them.

 

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A recall FAQ on Ford’s global website

Here is the FAQ. Mustang Mach-E Recall FAQ | Ford Media Center

Q. Can I still buy a Mach-E?

A. Yes, you can still purchase one from a Ford dealer. The vehicle will be held until it receives the software update.
 

Q. What is the issue tied to this recall?

A. On affected vehicles, Direct Current (“DC”) fast charging and repeated wide open pedal events can cause the high voltage battery main contactors to overheat. This overheating may lead to arcing and deformation of the electrical contact surfaces, which can result in an electric relay switch remaining open or a relay switch that welds close from heat.  An overheated relay switch that opens while driving can result in a loss of motive power, which can increase the risk of an accident.

  

Q. What is the cause of the issue?

A. The design and part-to-part variation of the high voltage battery main relay switch is not robust to the heat generated during DC fast charging and multiple wide open pedal events.

 

Q. What is the expected repair?  
A. A software update through an Over-The-Air (OTA) update or by visiting a dealer. Software will be available in July.

 

Q. How many vehicles are affected in this recall, and where are they?

A. This action affects 48,924 vehicles in the U.S. 

 

Q. Are there any symptoms a customer might notice that could indicate they might have an issue?  
A. If the relay switch opens while driving, a powertrain malfunction warning light will be illuminated and the vehicle will display “Stop Safely Now’ in the cluster when the vehicle experiences an immediate loss of motive power. Should the relay switch weld closed while driving, a powertrain malfunction warning light will be illuminated on the next drive cycle, along with a no start condition.
 

Q. Can I still drive my vehicle?

A. Yes, Ford has not issued instructions to stop driving vehicles under this safety recall.

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Tesla is having the same problem, was at a national level SCCA autocross and the cars were given a "warm up" lap of the course which wasn't even a mile long and the couple Teslas there waived that opportunity to keep their electrics cool. Similar results when one of the auto mags lapped Lime Rock with a Tesla, the car lost power after the first lap. The Mack E GT road tests tend to show rapid acceleration for about 5 seconds, then power gets throttled back to produce impressive 1/4 mile ETs and so-so trap speeds. This may explain why the Mach E police car showed great acceleration for a few seconds at the Michigan State Patrol's tests, but the lap times were mediocre.

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1 hour ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Tesla is having the same problem, was at a national level SCCA autocross and the cars were given a "warm up" lap of the course which wasn't even a mile long and the couple Teslas there waived that opportunity to keep their electrics cool. Similar results when one of the auto mags lapped Lime Rock with a Tesla, the car lost power after the first lap. The Mack E GT road tests tend to show rapid acceleration for about 5 seconds, then power gets throttled back to produce impressive 1/4 mile ETs and so-so trap speeds. This may explain why the Mach E police car showed great acceleration for a few seconds at the Michigan State Patrol's tests, but the lap times were mediocre.


Last I saw Tesla got it figured out with the Plaid models and there's no overheating/delay on those. Might take some time for the BEV newcomers to figure out everything Tesla has already dealt with.

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9 hours ago, Chrisgb said:

What will Ford do about those whose contactors have been welded closed? No software fix is going tounstick them.

My thoughts exactly……..and why I highlighted the last line in the quote.

4 hours ago, Hugh said:

Wasn't this brought up last year in Norway? The fleet was grounded until the software fix was put in. 

Yes and then, they were blaming regen braking for overheating the comtactors

Edited by jpd80
Autotext typos
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6 hours ago, blwnsmoke said:

 

It's a known safety feature (limitation) programmed into the MachE.

I wasn’t aware of it.  Not offering full power for a reasonable amount of time seems like Ford is asking for a lawsuit similar to one brought forth on the ‘99 cobra that was short on power and early GT350s that had some overheating issues when raced.  With overboost, Ford at least mentioned the base power and the overboost power along with the duration.  It should be the same for BEV.

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3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

My thoughts exactly……..and why I highlighted the last line in the quote.

Yes and then, they were blaming regen braking for overheating the comtactors

 

10 hours ago, Chrisgb said:

 

Replace them under warranty.  Software “fix” will only prevent new cases.

 

The fix limiting DC fast charge current and or time along with the WOT limitations is likely to bring some class action lawsuits out of the woodwork.  Ford just doesn’t seem to have much goodwill from the legal community or consumers.  Let’s hope this was found and fixed in the lightning.

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The bulk of the 49,000 vehicles being recalled have not had issues, this is a get out in front software patch before more failures happen…

 

It will be interesting to see if all of this is off putting to customers with orders, now wondering if a big price increase is coming…

Edited by jpd80
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2 hours ago, slemke said:

I wasn’t aware of it.  Not offering full power for a reasonable amount of time seems like Ford is asking for a lawsuit similar to one brought forth on the ‘99 cobra that was short on power and early GT350s that had some overheating issues when raced.  With overboost, Ford at least mentioned the base power and the overboost power along with the duration.  It should be the same for BEV.

 

100% agree

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