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Ford Quality Czar Says Issues Should Subside in 2023


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2 hours ago, slemke said:

Maybe we shouldn’t.  It does explain some of the high costs and poor return on investment.  Takes money to do unique things.  I’m sure they thought it was a better idea at the time.

Ford spent a ton of money changing the E Max FWD into the Mach E, simply because it wasn’t prepared to write off what had already been spent switching the E Focus drive line and batteries into what was basically a smoothed over LWB C-Max. If Ford had its time over again, it probably wouldn’t have wasted as much money as it did on making a long skinny compact EV.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but starting with a  wider Ford Edge would have made for a much better final product…

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Speaking of quality issues, I saw an article recently about the NHTSA investigation of the 2.7L engine failures in the Bronco. While the number of failures seems relatively small and is being mostly attributed to a batch of bad valves/valve keepers the article also mentioned something about the oil pan design for the 2.7L in the Bronco chassis. Here's a quote from that Ford Authority article: 

 

"In addition to the faulty valves, the Bronco’s version of the 2.7L V6 EcoBoost also utilizes a less than optimal oil pan design as well, which allows the oil pickup tube to become uncovered and suck in air, which in turn can destroy not only valves, but bearings as well, particularly during spirited or erratic driving when oil is sloshing around inside the powerplant."

 

I'll admit that I haven't been following this story all that closely but this is the first time I've seen any mention of an oil pan issue and it does make me wonder about the potential use of that oil pan in other vehicles that share that same chassis design, namely the Ranger. I am very interested in the next gen Ranger Raptor and knowing that the 3.0L EB is an enlarged version of the 2.7L, I'm curious about whether or not those engines will share the same oil pan design and is anything being done to address this possible concern, like adding more baffles inside the oil pan, etc. What I'm really hoping is that it's just fake news...

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  • 4 weeks later...
2 hours ago, coupe3w said:

Recall number 5 on Maverick....Quality is improving NOT. Did they fire the quality head guy yet?

 

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/not-again-2022-ford-maverick-has-another-recall/

 

You want the guy who started a few months ago to lose his job because of the mess he's cleaning up from last year??  The airbag recall stems from a discrepancy between the airbags from initial testing and those that went down the assembly line early last year.  Also potentially an issue with the supplier failing to meet spec, even if Ford might've been able to monitor better.  (We don't know the details of how initial testing showed the airbags complied with FMVSS yet production units do not.)

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47 minutes ago, j2sys said:

 

You want the guy who started a few months ago to lose his job because of the mess he's cleaning up from last year??  The airbag recall stems from a discrepancy between the airbags from initial testing and those that went down the assembly line early last year.  Also potentially an issue with the supplier failing to meet spec, even if Ford might've been able to monitor better.  (We don't know the details of how initial testing showed the airbags complied with FMVSS yet production units do not.)


How dare you bring logic and reason to the discussion.

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13 hours ago, j2sys said:

 

You want the guy who started a few months ago to lose his job because of the mess he's cleaning up from last year??  The airbag recall stems from a discrepancy between the airbags from initial testing and those that went down the assembly line early last year.  Also potentially an issue with the supplier failing to meet spec, even if Ford might've been able to monitor better.  (We don't know the details of how initial testing showed the airbags complied with FMVSS yet production units do not.)


Why is Ford plagued with so many supposedly supplier-related quality issues? Practically every other car manufacturer works with suppliers.
More specifically, it looks like these are issues (I assume) coming from "suppliers" that build components for Ford's North American plants.

Edited by AM222
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48 minutes ago, AM222 said:

Why is Ford plagued with so many supposedly supplier-related quality issues? Practically every other car manufacturer works with suppliers.

 

Ford is well known in the automotive industry for a dysfunctional corporate culture. Among the characteristics of this culture that negatively affect supplier relations are.

  1. Tolerance for making the same mistakes over and over.
  2. Managers who play the blame game and refuse to take responsibility for their own mistakes.

In the Plante Moran Supplier Relations Index, Ford's score declined in 2021 and 2022, and is now in the "poor-very poor" category. Nissan and Stellantis are even worse, though the former has improved since 2020.

 

SUPPLIERRELATIONS_RGB2.jpg

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28 minutes ago, coupe3w said:

It's been going on for decades and it should have been fixed years ago. How's that for logic?

 

And it's one new guy's fault?  That's where your logic falls apart.

 

1 hour ago, AM222 said:


Why is Ford plagued with so many supposedly supplier-related quality issues? Practically every other car manufacturer works with suppliers.
More specifically, it looks like these are issues (I assume) coming from "suppliers" that build components for Ford's North American plants.

 

I don't disagree.  They may need to step up their game monitoring supplier compliance, but I don't have internal access to what they're currently doing that seems to be failing.

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29 minutes ago, j2sys said:

 

And it's one new guy's fault?  That's where your logic falls apart.

 

Okay I'll give you that. But do you honestly think that things will change under the new guy? I doubt it will. It's just corporate speak to appease the customer.

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26 minutes ago, coupe3w said:

 

Okay I'll give you that. But do you honestly think that things will change under the new guy? I doubt it will. It's just corporate speak to appease the customer.

 

I have to remain hopeful but Ford's culture has proven painfully stubborn in the past.  Others have referenced penny pinching on engineering because it's a warranty issue and then they get to move on to the next program.

 

Cost cutting is built in.  Everyone understands they will be relentlessly pushed to cut costs over a model's lifetime.  Thus they start to design in ways that they can cut costs later.  All this does is waste money while those responsible can claim they succeeded at cutting costs.

 

One small but easily noticeable example is engine covers.  New models often come out with this simple piece of decorative plastic.  Before long, it's gone.  Been going on for over a decade - I was first made aware of this with first model year 2012 Focus.  Bronco Sport and other recent models also had that part quickly axed.  There are other little superfluous parts like this that owners have noticed (see various Maverick, BS, etc forums; they complain that these thins are "missing" and then file warranty claims...).

 

I liken it to a restaurant I visited 4 days in a row, each time with no soap in the restroom.  If they can't manage something so obvious to the customer, where else are they dropping the ball?  How sanitary is the kitchen?  There's still a pandemic going around even if no one wants to live like it.  Where else is Ford cutting costs, where does it end, when does it contribute to safety?

 

The only way you could fix something like this is with a very dedicated team hellbent on changing the culture.  Getting everyone on the same page, working toward the right goals with the right incentives.  If one team cuts costs that get multiplied for another team, they shouldn't be rewarded.  If warranty costs go up, engineering and manufacturing need to do the relevant deep dives to mitigate the issues on future production.

 

No idea what to make of the recall for the current C2 hybrid fleet - they're removing some of the AGS vanes and poking holes in the aero shield "to mitigate fire risk".  The implication is in case of an unknown defect causing engine failure, but after the DCT saga, it makes one wonder if they know something we don't.  Good news on that, I guess, is that there's a class action suit on that so if there's any specific defect to worry about, it'll likely come out through the discovery process...

 

https://fordauthority.com/2022/08/modern-ford-hybrids-still-unsafe-after-recall-according-to-new-lawsuit/

 

Between my recent dealer experience, transmission issues on every Ford I've had that was older than a year, and things like Ford's lack of public statements clarifying if there's any reason I should be worried my Escape Hybrid will catch fire, not sure what I'll end up with next.  We'll see how their EVs pan out, but so far, MME has the under-specced contactor issue.  Coming from a "Ford Family" (brother grandparents, etc), I've been more loyal than they deserve at this point.

 

All this is to say I hope Farley and Halliburton are able to turn things around, but despite cautious optimism, I remain skeptical.

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Ford's quality issues are due to corporate culture, and will not improve unless the culture changes. Back in the late '80s thru the mid teens I worked with suppliers to Ford (primarily production equipment and supplies) and Ford was about the worst of the automakers to deal with. They wanted suppliers to follow obsolete specs, incur needless expense just to keep front office denizens happy, and micromanage supplier operations. The worst is that they were always months late on paying invoices (180 days out minimum). The only successful projects were those where the plant people would run interference to let us supply what the plant wanted and needed instead of what corporate decided what they needed.

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These are the things you have to fix to improve quality starting with better supplier relations.  Suppliers deserve blame sometimes but Ford has to do better.

 

As for the engine covers, my old boss would have called them out on that.  You mean to tell me we could have eliminated that on day 1 and had these savings all along?  If we don’t need it now why did we need it back then?  If you allow people to play games they will.

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Ford has some excellent quality programs. It needs to turn those to a quality culture. There is a difference. Treatment of suppliers matters. What priority is Ford on the list of electronics suppliers? My guess is not too high. Cars being built without all the parts, sitting around or shipped to be repaired later is a recipe for problems. Ford has come close to "world class" a number of times. Time to close the deal.

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4 hours ago, j2sys said:

 

The only way you could fix something like this is with a very dedicated team hellbent on changing the culture.  Getting everyone on the same page, working toward the right goals with the right incentives.  If one team cuts costs that get multiplied for another team, they shouldn't be rewarded.  If warranty costs go up, engineering and manufacturing need to do the relevant deep dives to mitigate the issues on future production.

 

With all due respect, it might be easier task to overturn this country than trying to change Ford's culture.

 

It is a vicious cycle that the moment Ford does make relatively quality vehicles like it did in late 2000's and early 2010's, it immediately looks to ways to cut corners only to bite in the butt a few years later.

I'll give credit that the response is decent when push comes to shove, but if and only if it comes to a shove, and only to start the 'process' all over again.

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42 minutes ago, dlghtjr90 said:

 

With all due respect, it might be easier task to overturn this country than trying to change Ford's culture.

 

It is a vicious cycle that the moment Ford does make relatively quality vehicles like it did in late 2000's and early 2010's, it immediately looks to ways to cut corners only to bite in the butt a few years later.

I'll give credit that the response is decent when push comes to shove, but if and only if it comes to a shove, and only to start the 'process' all over again.

No need for disrespect.  Fixing a company culture that’s been shaped by decades of management and other experience is a Herculean task.  Can’t say it’s possible but so far they haven’t succeeded.  Even if small changes have been made here and there. 

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1 hour ago, j2sys said:

Here’s one thing that doesn’t help improve quality: things that decrease morale.
 

 

 

If those layoffs involve at least some managers and executives that have perpetuated Ford's infamously dysfunctional culture, it should improve morale among the Ford employees that remain and among Ford's new hires as well. 

 

But as you and dlghtjr90 correctly pointed out, culture change at Ford is a Herculean task, even with a good businessman like Jim Farley as CEO.

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3 hours ago, akirby said:

These are the things you have to fix to improve quality starting with better supplier relations.  Suppliers deserve blame sometimes but Ford has to do better.

 

As for the engine covers, my old boss would have called them out on that.  You mean to tell me we could have eliminated that on day 1 and had these savings all along?  If we don’t need it now why did we need it back then?  If you allow people to play games they will.

Ultimately, a quest for quality has to be part of the corporate culture. 

 

I've been following this site for over 20 years. The problem is that Ford only seems to care about quality when the lack of it ends up costing the company money. Even this latest effort is being driven by mounting warranty costs. Which, roughly 18 years ago, was the motivating factor behind that last big push for improved quality. 

 

I recall reading a quote by a Toyota manager. He said that the problem with the domestic auto makers was that they viewed quality control solely as a cost-saving measure. They weren't making it a core pillar of the company's operations. 

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27 minutes ago, grbeck said:

Ultimately, a quest for quality has to be part of the corporate culture. 

 

I've been following this site for over 20 years. The problem is that Ford only seems to care about quality when the lack of it ends up costing the company money. Even this latest effort is being driven by mounting warranty costs. Which, roughly 18 years ago, was the motivating factor behind that last big push for improved quality. 

 

I recall reading a quote by a Toyota manager. He said that the problem with the domestic auto makers was that they viewed quality control solely as a cost-saving measure. They weren't making it a core pillar of the company's operations. 


Thats true but it should also be viewed as a potential cost risk and treated the same way.  What happens is Ford likes to gamble that they won’t have major issues and sometimes they lose.

 

Thats why I said Farley has to make quality more important than sales volumes, profit margins and project dates and hold the executives responsible.  That will trickle down and better decisions will be made.  But only if he follows through on it.

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20 minutes ago, akirby said:


Thats true but it should also be viewed as a potential cost risk and treated the same way.  What happens is Ford likes to gamble that they won’t have major issues and sometimes they lose.

 

Thats why I said Farley has to make quality more important than sales volumes, profit margins and project dates and hold the executives responsible.  That will trickle down and better decisions will be made.  But only if he follows through on it.

I think he's on the right track. Hopefully, giving the EV teams a ton of time and resources will help to ensure ford's future evs are rock solid. Keeping the ICE powertrains for current and upcoming products basically the same, rather than funding new engine development constantly, should also drastically improve reliability and quality moving forward. At least in theory. Really the only reason Toyota makes reliable cars is because they keep the same engines and platforms around for decades, giving engineers time to perfect them. 

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