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Ford to Fund Its EV Efforts in Part by Laying Off 8000 Workers


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11 hours ago, Footballfan said:

Why can't ford be eating the Korean's lunch when it comes to sedans?  I realize it is a stagnating segment but Honda, Toyota, Kia, Hyundai seem to be doing ok.  Remember a butt behind the wheel of a Ford is better than a butt behind the wheel of a competitor. 

 

Hyundai has already announced plans to discontinue Accent and Sonata. It is expected Kia will discontinue its versions of these models also, though no announcement has been made.  I do expect Toyota and Honda to keep selling ICE (though probably hybrid) versions of Corolla, Camry, Civic, and Accord for many years to come. 

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13 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

When you have limited resources and the market is moving away from them, why spend money on a dying segment?

 

 

 

 

https://www.autoinfluence.com/what-happened-to-the-sedan/

Accord sales

2010 311,381      
2011 235,625      
2012 331,872      
2013 366,678      
2014 388,374      
2015 355,557      
2016 345,225      
2017 322,655      
2018 291,071      
2019 267,567      
2020 199,458      
2021 202,676

 

Civic sales
 

2010 260,218  
2011 221,235  
2012 317,909  
2013 336,180  
2014 325,981  
2015 335,384  
2016 366,927  
2017 377,266  
2018 325,760  
2019 325,650  
2020 261,225  
2021 263,787  

 

Rather see that money put into a growth segment like the Maverick or Bronco

And yet Civic outsold every Ford nameplate with the exception of F Series and Accord was bested by only it and Explorer (219,871).

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12 hours ago, ehaase said:

Hyundai has already announced plans to discontinue Accent and Sonata. It is expected Kia will discontinue its versions of these models also, though no announcement has been made.  I do expect Toyota and Honda to keep selling ICE (though probably hybrid) versions of Corolla, Camry, Civic, and Accord for many years to come. 

Hyundai Sonata, Kia Stinger, And K5 To Be Axed In The US: Report (motor1.com)

...in about 5-6 years.

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On 7/30/2022 at 11:44 AM, Trader 10 said:

And yet Civic outsold every Ford nameplate with the exception of F Series and Accord was bested by only it and Explorer (219,871).

Ford and GM basically gave the market to Honda and Toyota yet sales continued to fall, they knew the market was changing to utilities particularly beyond 2018. The point here being that Honda and Toyota were selling into a vacuum but not getting prices that achieved significant profit for them in the us market.

 

Be under no illusion that sales of these cars vs other trucks and utilities is an unequal comparison, the profit level is completely different. Toyota and Honda would kill to have full sized truck and utility sales like GM and Ford, even Ram.

Edited by jpd80
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6 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The Stinger is dead already and is a higher profit vehicle then the Sonata/K5

 

Maybe to enthusiasts and the enthusiast press, but certainly not to the average person.

 

Edit: I misread profit as profile. But since the Stinger didn't sell well, the Sonata and Optima/K5 are probably more profitable, too.

Edited by AGR
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4 hours ago, akirby said:

Don’t forget Honda and Toyota have huge markets in Japan to amortize sedans.

 

Not really. They sell way more Civics, Corollas, Accords, and Camrys in the US than in Japan. They sell more boxes on wheels like the Stepwgn in Japan. In China on the other hand... (but of course, so does Ford)

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2 hours ago, AGR said:

 

Not really. They sell way more Civics, Corollas, Accords, and Camrys in the US than in Japan. They sell more boxes on wheels like the Stepwgn in Japan. In China on the other hand... (but of course, so does Ford)


I see now that overall sales are much higher but what about sedans specifically?  Can’t find that data.  I assume they sell a lot more sedans in Asia and a lot more utilities and trucks here.

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On 7/31/2022 at 12:02 PM, akirby said:


I see now that overall sales are much higher but what about sedans specifically?  Can’t find that data.  I assume they sell a lot more sedans in Asia and a lot more utilities and trucks here.

 

Sedan doesn't sell that much in Japan. In fact, Honda doesn't even offer Civic in Japan. It's all tall minivans and CUV of various sizes.

 

US and China are the largest market for sedans like Civic and Camry. Outside US and China, Civic and Accord sales sales are basically rounding error. Camry and Corolla see a bit of action in the Middle East but a fraction of US market.

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8 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

I saw a piece on FordAuthority that stated Farley is concerned with the number of ICE's that Ford currently has in production and wants to drastically reduce the number of engine options in ICE vehicles.   


To me that’s a no brainer only question is how far to go and when.

 

Transverse - You have to keep the 2.5 hybrid and the 2.0T.  2.3T could be replaced with a tuned 2.0T.  It’s only in Corsair anyway.
 

Longitudinal - You have to keep the 2.3T for Mustang, Ranger and Explorer.  Maybe it replaces the 3.3L V6 for F150.

5.0L stays for Mustang and F150 icons.  3.5T stays for F150.  6.7D and 7.3 stay for SD and Mediums.

 

2.7T and 3.0T could be consolidated.  Maybe a detuned 3.0T to replace the 2.7 keeping a HO 3.0T for the performance vehicles.

Edited by akirby
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22 minutes ago, 92merc said:

I'd think the 1.5EB would have to stay for now too.

I think the 3.3 NA wasn't needed to begin with.


I don’t see a need for the 1.5L and the 2.0.  It only exists now to offer a lower price point.  You could do that with a detuned 2.0L if it was absolutely necessary (But I don’t think it is).  I see the HEV being the entry level like Maverick.

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33 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Well looks like the 2.3L is getting dropped from the Corsair

https://fordauthority.com/2022/08/2023-lincoln-corsair-to-drop-optional-2-3l-i-4-ecoboost-engine/

 

 


Not surprised. Once the PHEV came along it was only a matter of time before either the 2.0 or 2.3 was dropped. It's a shame though, the 2.3 is a fabulous engine. 

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1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Not surprised. Once the PHEV came along it was only a matter of time before either the 2.0 or 2.3 was dropped. It's a shame though, the 2.3 is a fabulous engine. 

Not that we have any plans to replace our MkC with a Corsair anytime soon, but that definitely takes the Corsair off the list.  I think it just means it will be a Mach-E for us or whatever they give Lincoln.  Sadly I think it might be a while before they actually get a Lincoln BEV, which is a shame because a Mach-E in Lincoln trim with a redesigned front facia and the better Lincoln interior would kill in that market space.

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On 8/5/2022 at 5:54 AM, akirby said:


To me that’s a no brainer only question is how far to go and when.

 

Transverse - You have to keep the 2.5 hybrid and the 2.0T.  2.3T could be replaced with a tuned 2.0T.  It’s only in Corsair anyway.
 

Longitudinal - You have to keep the 2.3T for Mustang, Ranger and Explorer.  Maybe it replaces the 3.3L V6 for F150.

5.0L stays for Mustang and F150 icons.  3.5T stays for F150.  6.7D and 7.3 stay for SD and Mediums.

 

2.7T and 3.0T could be consolidated.  Maybe a detuned 3.0T to replace the 2.7 keeping a HO 3.0T for the performance vehicles.

 

Only 2.3T transverse is really in danger here due to unique application in Corsair and Focus ST (EU only).

 

Farley's comment is probably more aimed at Europe where Ford has far too many ICE options for the volume it is generating:

1.1 VCT

1.0 EB

1.0 EB 48V Mild Hybrid

1.0 PHEV

1.5 EB

1.5 EB 48V Mild Hybrid

1.5 EcoBlue

2.0 EB

2.0 EcoBlue

2.0 EcoBlue 48V Mild Hybrid

2.5 Hybrid

2.5 PHEV

2.3 EB

 

And keep in mind most of these come with both manual and auto options and multiple output levels. For example, there are 3 different 1.0 EB output levels for different trim levels and 2 of them are available with 6MT or automatic. And 2 of the 1.0 EV are paired with 48V hybrid system so the combination multiplies. Don't forget the 1.0 EB PHEV. It's really crazy when you think about the freefalling volume at Ford Europe in this context. 

Edited by bzcat
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$8,500 price hike for Lightning

 

https://www.autonews.com/retail/ford-f-150-lightning-prices-going-order-bank-reopens-current-reservation-holders

 

Ford Motor Co. is increasing the starting price of the F-150 Lightning electric pickup $6,000 to $8,500 across all trims because of rising material costs as it reopens order banks for current reservation holders.

The entry-level Pro trim gets the biggest percentage price hike, up about 17 percent to $48,769, including a $1,795 shipping fee.

The Lightning's sub-$40,000 starting price, excluding shipping fees, was a key marketing point that Ford touted at the vehicle's launch. But executives have warned that price increases would be coming as rising commodity costs have wiped out early profits on the Mustang Mach-E and other Electric Vehicles

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22 hours ago, jpd80 said:

$8,500 price hike for Lightning

 

https://www.autonews.com/retail/ford-f-150-lightning-prices-going-order-bank-reopens-current-reservation-holders

 

Ford Motor Co. is increasing the starting price of the F-150 Lightning electric pickup $6,000 to $8,500 across all trims because of rising material costs as it reopens order banks for current reservation holders.

The entry-level Pro trim gets the biggest percentage price hike, up about 17 percent to $48,769, including a $1,795 shipping fee.

The Lightning's sub-$40,000 starting price, excluding shipping fees, was a key marketing point that Ford touted at the vehicle's launch. But executives have warned that price increases would be coming as rising commodity costs have wiped out early profits on the Mustang Mach-E and other Electric Vehicles

Awesome move!  Ford is making the cost of these trucks well beyond the means of the average customer and these are supposed to be the future?  Good luck with Blue Oval City if you are going to charge these prices.

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