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Ford to Fund Its EV Efforts in Part by Laying Off 8000 Workers


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1 hour ago, Footballfan said:

Awesome move!  Ford is making the cost of these trucks well beyond the means of the average customer and these are supposed to be the future?  Good luck with Blue Oval City if you are going to charge these prices.

Conversely, if Ford is making loads of profit on these vehicles they can start throwing increased bonus payments to employees.

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4 hours ago, Footballfan said:

Awesome move!  Ford is making the cost of these trucks well beyond the means of the average customer and these are supposed to be the future?  Good luck with Blue Oval City if you are going to charge these prices.

 

But yet the average transaction price of a new car in 2022 is roughly $47K

 

Not to mention that prices should stay flat or even fall once other materials or battery tech is introduced.

Auto makers aren't as stupid as you think either when it comes to price. They know that spiraling costs aren't good for them or customers either. 

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4 hours ago, Footballfan said:

Awesome move!  Ford is making the cost of these trucks well beyond the means of the average customer and these are supposed to be the future?  

 

Demand for BEV pickup trucks in general and F-150 Lightning in particular is so high that Ford will be able to sell every 2023 F-150 Lightning they can produce at the higher prices.

 

Motor Trend said it best in its F-150 Lightning Platinum review.

At this point, Americans aren't waiting for EV technology to mature or the price to come down. They're simply waiting for the EVs they want to be built.

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7 hours ago, Footballfan said:

Awesome move!  Ford is making the cost of these trucks well beyond the means of the average customer and these are supposed to be the future?  Good luck with Blue Oval City if you are going to charge these prices.

I would like to know who this average customer is.  Based on the fact that people are paying enormous ADM's to get a vehicle off the lot or paying near MSRP for USED vehicles, I think the "average" customer is able to afford a lot more than you think.  YOU may not be willing to pay that much, but it doesn't mean that the average customer isn't.

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1 hour ago, Flying68 said:

I would like to know who this average customer is.  Based on the fact that people are paying enormous ADM's to get a vehicle off the lot or paying near MSRP for USED vehicles, I think the "average" customer is able to afford a lot more than you think.  YOU may not be willing to pay that much, but it doesn't mean that the average customer isn't.

 

Good points Flying68. In the U.S. market, the "average" customer for new pickup trucks (and late model used pickup trucks too nowadays) is actually far above average in terms of wealth and similar metrics compared to the average household.

 

Pickup trucks have become big time status symbols in recent years and the upmarket trend in that vehicle segment shows no signs of slowing down. 

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Average people can't afford a $50,000 to $100,000 F-150 Lightning, but apparently average customers can.  Average people will be stuck buying 10 year old Dodge Calibers with 120,000 miles at CarMax for $12,000. 

Edited by ehaase
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  • 5 months later...
On 7/24/2022 at 12:26 PM, rperez817 said:

On the motorhome side of the RV Industry, Winnebago Industries is now "road-trip testing" its e-RV all electric motorhome prototype. e-RV is based on Ford Transit with Lightning eMotors' EV powertrain. Electric Concept Motorhome (winnebagoind.com)

 

Winnebago Industries released its e-RV2 prototype today. The new version is based on Ford e-Transit, whereas the previous version used a regular Ford Transit converted to BEV by Lightning Motors.

 

 

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4 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Winnebago Industries released its e-RV2 prototype today. The new version is based on Ford e-Transit, whereas the previous version used a regular Ford Transit converted to BEV by Lightning Motors.

 

 

 

From what I read, this is a concept, as the range is a pitiful 108 miles. However, they are hoping to reach 3 hrs between charges.

 

Probably work well for RV'ers wanting to camp in the back garden, but for those of us that actually go places, not so much.

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10 hours ago, Rangers09 said:

 

From what I read, this is a concept, as the range is a pitiful 108 miles. However, they are hoping to reach 3 hrs between charges.

 

Probably work well for RV'ers wanting to camp in the back garden, but for those of us that actually go places, not so much.

Hey, at least with an RV you can catch a good nap while you recharge.

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8 hours ago, paintguy said:

Hey, at least with an RV you can catch a good nap while you recharge.

 

With the recharge time, probably more than a nap, probably a full night's sleep, assuming you can find a recharge station.

 

Stopping at a campground every hundred miles to recharge makes the cost of diesel for my F-450 really cheap.

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On 1/18/2023 at 5:25 PM, rperez817 said:

 

Winnebago Industries released its e-RV2 prototype today. The new version is based on Ford e-Transit, whereas the previous version used a regular Ford Transit converted to BEV by Lightning Motors.

 

 

 

Nice prototype effort, but essentially not much more from Winnebago than a van camper with all-electric house design like many other ICE; except van itself is powered by battery.  Winnebago added 15 kWh of 48 VDC battery to power house loads so that Transit’s range is not reduced further.  However, the negative consequences of being built on a BEV Transit, unlike ICE Transit, is that there is no fuel to power a generator or fast-idle the engine to charge house batteries, as is normally done.  Additionally, water heater and space heat is battery-electric instead of gasoline, diesel, or propane, so the 15 kWh house battery won’t last very long when weather is less than ideal.  There is solar on roof, but that won’t power air conditioner or heat the living area more than a couple of hours a day at most in bad weather.  Any more than that must be provided from limited battery capacity.

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  • 1 month later...
On 7/24/2022 at 12:26 PM, rperez817 said:

RV business is ripe for an all-electric revolution, just like the ongoing revolution for passenger cars/light trucks and commercial vehicles. In May 2021, some former Tesla employees founded a company called Lightship Energy that aims to "upend the [RV] industry" according to TechCrunch. Lightship's focus is on the towable travel trailer side of the RV market. Meet the all-electric RV startup steered by Tesla alumni | TechCrunch 

 

Lightship expects to start production of its L1 all-electric self propelled travel trailer in late 2024. Reservations are now open, pricing starts at $125,000. Lightship (lightshiprv.com)

 

Test16-2000x1300.jpg

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3 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Lightship expects to start production of its L1 all-electric self propelled travel trailer in late 2024. Reservations are now open, pricing starts at $125,000. Lightship (lightshiprv.com)

 

Test16-2000x1300.jpg


Reminds me of the classic Hi-Lo camping trailers that went out of production around 2010.  I loved the concept but making them truly practical was more difficult than it seemed.  Demand was very limited.  There were some devoted buyers, but design never caught on over decades.

 

The Lightship looks good but I expect it will face similar issues, assuming buyers can get over the $150,000 price; which seems unlikely in my opinion.  Because of heavy weight, it will also limit towing to large vehicles (due to mass, not power), so will limit demand even more.


Improved aerodynamics is a real plus, as it was for Hi-Lo, but I believe what is gained is more than offset by loss of space and practicality as a camper.  Collapsible design tended to add a lot of weight, a real negative, though being able to park and store in a home garage was a nice feature for the shorter models.  The Lightship is low enough also for home garage, but is too long to fit in most.

 

By the way,  range extension seems exaggerated.  Additionally, those towing with ICE pickups or SUVs will never recover added cost in fuel savings.  It seems they are targeting Ford Lightning, Rivian, and maybe Tesla tow vehicles.

 

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3 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Something is wrong at Ford. I can't put my finger on it though.

 

Everything you need to know can be summed up in this quote:

 

"GM out-earned its rival last year on slightly less revenue and fewer workers. Ford has about 173,000 workers globally, compared with GM’s 167,000, according to regulatory filings. GM also sold more vehicles last year—about 5.9 million, compared with Ford’s 4.2 million."

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/ford-ceo-jim-farley-grapples-problems-auto-makers-past

 

 

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45 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

 

Everything you need to know can be summed up in this quote:

 

"GM out-earned its rival last year on slightly less revenue and fewer workers. Ford has about 173,000 workers globally, compared with GM’s 167,000, according to regulatory filings. GM also sold more vehicles last year—about 5.9 million, compared with Ford’s 4.2 million."

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/ford-ceo-jim-farley-grapples-problems-auto-makers-past

 

 

 

I wonder if those figures include a ton of half built vehicles waiting on parts.

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On 3/8/2023 at 9:15 AM, rperez817 said:

Lightship expects to start production of its L1 all-electric self propelled travel trailer in late 2024. Reservations are now open, pricing starts at $125,000. Lightship (lightshiprv.com)


P.S. — Airstream is working with Porsche to design a camping trailer capable of being towed by BEVs.  Their concept is much different than Lightship though in that they have come up with small, light, and very aerodynamic design so that it doesn’t reduce towing range too much.

 

I like some of the features a lot in that they can be applied to regular and more affordable trailers as well, like eliminating roof air conditioner.  An insulated pop-up roof and kneeling suspension makes it garageable and even more aerodynamic.  It is just a concept for now, but movement in right direction in my opinion.

A52D12DB-DC2F-48BE-B808-782724A12D30.thumb.jpeg.eab32964955b32788693da04935cb509.jpeg

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  • 1 month later...
10 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Looks like the Product Chief for Ford Blue Division saw the writing on the wall. He's retiring at the end of this month. Trevor Worthington, Ford Blue Product Chief, to Retire After 38 Years | Ford Media Center

...Or, maybe he saw the writing on his driver's license. A 38-year career with one company would indicate he is now somewhere in his mid 60s or older if he came to Ford shortly after college or an earlier employer. I presume that as he wasn't included in the 8,000 salaried employee layoffs as far as we know.

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2 hours ago, Chrisgb said:

...Or, maybe he saw the writing on his driver's license. A 38-year career with one company would indicate he is now somewhere in his mid 60s or older if he came to Ford shortly after college or an earlier employer. I presume that as he wasn't included in the 8,000 salaried employee layoffs as far as we know.


Exactly.  Plus retiring after Super Duty was successfully completed may be great time to go back home and enjoy life after a very long career.

 

“Most recently, Worthington oversaw development of the all-new Super Duty and Ranger Raptor trucks and Bronco Raptor SUV.“

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14 hours ago, rperez817 said:

Looks like the Product Chief for Ford Blue Division saw the writing on the wall. He's retiring at the end of this month. Trevor Worthington, Ford Blue Product Chief, to Retire After 38 Years | Ford Media Center

 

Since he is retiring after 38 yrs and Ford Blue will be around for at least another 10 yrs, I'll suggest the decision had nothing to do with seeing the writing on the wall.

 

Based on the press release, he just completed some major projects, a common trigger for retirement. He is also returning to Melbourne, which is voted as one of the World's top 10 most liveable cities on an annual basis. Having visited Melbourne multiple times, if I was trading Detroit for Melbourne, I wouldn't have lasted 38 yrs. 

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5 hours ago, Rangers09 said:

Based on the press release, he just completed some major projects, a common trigger for retirement.

 

Correct. Based on Ford's current business strategies, most if not all future projects and new product introductions of the caliber that Mr. Worthington led are going to be allocated to Ford Model e and Ford Pro divisions, not Ford Blue. Thus, the timing of Worthington's retirement worked in his favor, not only because of his illustrious 38 year tenure at Ford, but also because Ford Blue division doesn't have much to offer him nowadays in the role of Product Chief.

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  • 2 months later...

Ford is expected to cut several hundred, maybe 1,000 or more, jobs in the U.S. and Canada this week. Ford Starting Another Round of Downsizing | American Machinist

 

Ford Motor Co. is laying off several hundred workers in the U.S. and Canada this week in its ongoing effort to reorganize the business, which it intends will be more focused on electric vehicles and digital services for individuals and fleets. The automaker has not indicated the total number of jobs are to be cut – one report stated it will be at least 1,000 – but it has confirmed that its reductions are centered on engineering and other salaried positions.

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