rmc523 Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 (edited) On 8/29/2022 at 10:02 AM, tbone said: If you think no resources were spent on something like this you haven’t worked in the corporate world or for the government. It certainly could have been simple, but I highly doubt that it was. Additionally, I should have mentioned my opinion about the continued diminishment of the value of the ST name, unless there is actually a legitimate performance version of it. obviously something was spent. But it wasn’t an entire vehicle’s R&D budget worth of expenditure. And if they switch the whole non-truck lineup to this arrangement, that cost is spread over every vehicle. On 8/29/2022 at 2:25 PM, ice-capades said: The ST models in the North American market have always been designated for the performance-based models. The introduction of the ST-Line designation degrades the significance of the ST models in North America, regardless of what Ford has established in Europe. In addition, using both ST and ST-Line designations in North America will cause confusion and misidentification for both owners and Dealers for resale and trade-in purposes. Doesn’t seem to hurt BMW M with M-sport, Mercedes/AMG with AMG-Line, Audi with S-Line, etc most people could care less about performance but like the more sporty look. If Ford can make a few extra 1-2 k per vehicle by making it look more sporty and add a badge, why not? in general I agree it dilutes the name (for any brand), but it’s what people want and what sells. Edited September 2, 2022 by rmc523 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanej830 Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 I work at Louisville assembly plant, little difference in appearance on 23 but not much. A total body change supposed be in 25 but that when it goes to Mexico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 55 minutes ago, Shanej830 said: I work at Louisville assembly plant, little difference in appearance on 23 but not much. A total body change supposed be in 25 but that when it goes to Mexico. Huh? Escape moving to Mexico? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, akirby said: Huh? Escape moving to Mexico? Going electric and moving in with Mach E is what I assume he means. Edited September 7, 2022 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 50 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Going electric and moving in with Mach E is what I assume he means. Isn't it supposed to go to Oakville? Or has the plan changed again?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 47 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: Isn't it supposed to go to Oakville? Or has the plan changed again?! I haven't heard anything, he would know more than me. I'm waiting until the contract next year before I start speculating, everything will be much more clear once the contract summary comes out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 Borg has maintained that there won’t be a BEV Escape - at least not before very late in the decade at the earliest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 6 hours ago, Trader 10 said: Borg has maintained that there won’t be a BEV Escape - at least not before very late in the decade at the earliest. Take what he says with a grain of salt. He's been wrong just as much as he's been right, about 50/50 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanej830 Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 The linc going to Canada in 23 and escape is going Mexico 25. 2024 is our last model change for escape here in Louisville unless contract goes diff way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pffan1990 Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Shanej830 said: The linc going to Canada in 23 and escape is going Mexico 25. 2024 is our last model change for escape here in Louisville unless contract goes diff way. Interesting. I figured the Escape would stay at LAP until its end later in decade (or whenever they planned). If it's moving to Mexico, then what would be built at LAP in its place, do you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 10 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Isn't it supposed to go to Oakville? Or has the plan changed again?! The latest I've read is that the Aviator/Explorer EVs are now planned for OAC (which pushes them back to 2025) since Ford now plan to increase MME production to 250k in Mexico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Harley Lover said: The latest I've read is that the Aviator/Explorer EVs are now planned for OAC (which pushes them back to 2025) since Ford now plan to increase MME production to 250k in Mexico. Right but press reports had something like 3-4-5 products going to oakville back when they said the Edge was going away. The assumption at the time was Explorer/Lincoln BEV and something based on the MBQ platform, which would mean something escape sized with something else limited production wise. Oakville shuts down next year for retooling so the GE2 platform would be launching in 2024 as a 25MY product? If the Escape moves from LAP, that would leave it and Flat Rock as plants without future products. LAP would be stupid to close since it would be close to BOC to get batteries from. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanej830 Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 As of right now we not slatted for any product after 24. I say be something they use during contract. Rumors floating around about over flow even bringing bk the explore. I can't see them shutting down the fastest production plant in ford system but who really knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 3 hours ago, silvrsvt said: If the Escape moves from LAP, that would leave it and Flat Rock as plants without future products. LAP would be stupid to close since it would be close to BOC to get batteries from. Agree, closing LAP would make zero sense. The Kentucky battery plant(s) are practically in its backyard. And as ShaneJ posted, LAP is a high performance plant. That has to be worth something. Perhaps Ford are still sorting out future product and thus don't have a plan for LAP yet. That would not be surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 There is almost no chance Ford will close LAP but it's normal for Ford to say no product planned until the contract negotiation time with UAW. I think it is reasonable to assume Ford will probably move ICE to a single plant (Hermosilo?) so Escape to Mexico is not that farfetched. Corsair going to Oakville makes sense because it is going to be EV only. We don't have any info on new models Ford plans to launch after 2025 - we only know about existing models that will be getting next gen (i.e. Explorer/Aviator and MACH E). Ford will have to launch more CUVs to keep up with market demand and competition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanej830 Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 I agree since this contract going be mostly about pay for active and retired employees. Ford going use every Trump card they have. Personally I think escape needs total mak over. Like the BS looks like the old escape body style with bronco on the grill. It's works tho, people want suv look., set little higher bigger tires, slick look but yet rugged. Think that reason why the bronco and BS took off so well. The mav, well it the price on it. New truck under 30k with great mpg. For a first car for young adults no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehaase Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 45 minutes ago, Shanej830 said: The mav, well it the price on it. New truck under 30k with great mpg. For a first car for young adults no brainer. Where are the under $30K Mavericks? (Unless you can wait many months) Used Ford Maverick for Sale (carmax.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 7, 2022 Share Posted September 7, 2022 1 hour ago, ehaase said: Where are the under $30K Mavericks? (Unless you can wait many months) Used Ford Maverick for Sale (carmax.com) Plenty of factory orders being delivered at MSRP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, bzcat said: There is almost no chance Ford will close LAP but it's normal for Ford to say no product planned until the contract negotiation time with UAW. I think it is reasonable to assume Ford will probably move ICE to a single plant (Hermosilo?) so Escape to Mexico is not that farfetched. Corsair going to Oakville makes sense because it is going to be EV only. We don't have any info on new models Ford plans to launch after 2025 - we only know about existing models that will be getting next gen (i.e. Explorer/Aviator and MACH E). Ford will have to launch more CUVs to keep up with market demand and competition. I certainly have no inside information, but believe that Ford is waiting to see how BEV demand develops before making additional product plans. I don’t think consumer acceptance of BEVs will be as rapid as some on this forum think. I believe a large percentage of new vehicle buyers (maybe as much as 50%) will continue to buy ICE as long as they are available. Ford can't risk losing these sales. Edited September 8, 2022 by Trader 10 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplorerDude Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 Current generation of Escape is expected to last until MY27. It was extended but there is currently no ICE replacement planned. Next gen will be a BEV built somewhere most likely south. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 11 hours ago, Trader 10 said: I certainly have no inside information, but believe that Ford is waiting to see how BEV demand develops before making additional product plans. I don’t think consumer acceptance of BEVs will be as rapid as some on this forum think. I believe a large percentage of new vehicle buyers (maybe as much as 50%) will continue to buy ICE as long as they are available. Ford can't risk losing these sales. What people want and what they are getting are two different things. Its just like people not wanting emission controls on cars 50 years ago-its going to happen, like it or not. ICE development is done-there really isn't much else that can be done with it. BEVs still have a lot of headroom to be development and by the time 2035 rolls around (14+ years from now) the vast majority of issues should be sorted by then. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 15 hours ago, silvrsvt said: What people want and what they are getting are two different things. Its just like people not wanting emission controls on cars 50 years ago-its going to happen, like it or not. ICE development is done-there really isn't much else that can be done with it. BEVs still have a lot of headroom to be development and by the time 2035 rolls around (14+ years from now) the vast majority of issues should be sorted by then. No, this isn’t like emission controls 50 years ago. ICE vehicles will still be around for at least another 10 years - maybe more. Buyers will have a choice and trying to ram BEV’s down the throats of those who aren’t ready to buy them will be a losing proposition for any automaker that chooses to do so. It doesn’t matter if ICE development is mostly complete - Ford and the other automakers can continue to sell their ICE vehicles indefinitely if the market is there. Until the BEV issues of poor range, slow charging, and high cost are overcome, ICE vehicles will remain popular choices. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 10 hours ago, Trader 10 said: No, this isn’t like emission controls 50 years ago. ICE vehicles will still be around for at least another 10 years - maybe more. Buyers will have a choice and trying to ram BEV’s down the throats of those who aren’t ready to buy them will be a losing proposition for any automaker that chooses to do so. It doesn’t matter if ICE development is mostly complete - Ford and the other automakers can continue to sell their ICE vehicles indefinitely if the market is there. Until the BEV issues of poor range, slow charging, and high cost are overcome, ICE vehicles will remain popular choices. 10 years from now maybe, but in 2035, its highly unlikely they will not be. If Ford is giving up work on ICE engines (which would be after the 2025 timeframe) now, I doubt they'll want to keep one foot in one world and one in the other. It makes no sense economically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisgb Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 By 2035, I wonder if there will be enough impact from grid strain, environmental and political ramifications concerning lithium & rare earth sourcing and processing to the extent that all the battery production & grid infrastructure investment is written off and we start over with hydrogen? Maybe by then solid state battery technology & BEV efficiency will have somewhat relieved the negatives, but I think H2 is the best long term solution for transportation energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 22 minutes ago, Chrisgb said: By 2035, I wonder if there will be enough impact from grid strain, environmental and political ramifications concerning lithium & rare earth sourcing and processing to the extent that all the battery production & grid infrastructure investment is written off and we start over with hydrogen? Maybe by then solid state battery technology & BEV efficiency will have somewhat relieved the negatives, but I think H2 is the best long term solution for transportation energy. Solve the distribution issue first. H2 doesn't have infrastructure, nor does it have political momentum behind it to make the infrastructure happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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