akirby Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 4 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Sure, it makes sense to us who pay close attention to this sort of thing but I still think that's too confusing to the average customer. Keep It Simple, Stupid. I’m describing why they listed them separately in the table. Almost every vehicle Ford sells ha ps 2 or 3 option packages for each trim level. E.g. My F150 XLT had 3 trim levels - 300a, 301a, 302a. Same thing here just words instead of numbers, I agree it should be even simpler but it’s no different than today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pffan1990 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 53 minutes ago, akirby said: I’m describing why they listed them separately in the table. Almost every vehicle Ford sells ha ps 2 or 3 option packages for each trim level. E.g. My F150 XLT had 3 trim levels - 300a, 301a, 302a. Same thing here just words instead of numbers, I agree it should be even simpler but it’s no different than today. I understand what you were saying and I think most of us here do too. Each trims on the F-150 and Bronco have few option packages (Mid, High, Lux, for example) which could pretty much be applied to F-150's 300A (base), 301A (Mid), 302A (High), etc. But the Escape trimlines list on the table had them split out purely for comparison purposes of the old Escape trims to the new Escape trims. I do think it will be Base, Active, ST-Line (with few separate option packages), and Platinum. But the table split out the few ST-Line packages separately to compare with previous Escape trim lines in order to show how Ford is simplifying their ICE trimline offerings from here on out. It's been said that the Explorer will be next to simplify their trimline offerings in 2024. So it's possible that the rest, if not most, of the ICE vehicles will all have simpler trimlines at some point. What's interesting is that Ford actually separates the Mustang trims by standard and bundled option Premium Package for each of EcoBoost, GT, and Mach 1. There was a time when the Premium Package would just be an option for each of the trims except Shelby. But now it's EcoBoost, EcoBoost Premium, GT, GT Premium, Mach 1, and Mach 1 Premium. I can understand Ford's reasoning for this because it helps customers know what they're looking at when they look at the window sticker. If it says GT at the top of the sticker, then it's the non-optioned Premium version. If it says GT Premium then the customer knows it got extras included plus other possible available options that would not be available on base GT. At that point, the customer would need to look further down the sticker to see what other packages and options were included. However, I'm wondering if they may revert to just offering EcoBoost, GT, Mach 1, other trims such as Bullitt later on, etc. with optional Premium Package for each trims for the S650 Mustang. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 Looks German, Korean, and Japanese! I could always spot an Escape, but I won't be able to now unless I see the blue oval on the front! Too bad. You blew this one Ford! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 21 minutes ago, Joe771476 said: Looks German, Korean, and Japanese! I could always spot an Escape, but I won't be able to now unless I see the blue oval on the front! Too bad. You blew this one Ford! You mean the German, Korean and Japanese CUVs that outsold the old Escape? Selling 10k/ month on top of the cheaper Bronco Sport is a strange definition of losing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) On 8/12/2022 at 5:47 AM, akirby said: You mean the German, Korean and Japanese CUVs that outsold the old Escape? Selling 10k/ month on top of the cheaper Bronco Sport is a strange definition of losing. And now that it looks other competitors in the segment, Ford regards Escape as a commodity product Ironically, under Alan Mulally’s One Ford, Bronco Sport would have been called unnecessary duplication yet Bronco Sport is more desirable and delivers healthy profit. Know what your customer really wants is crucial these days. Is Ford growing impatient with Escape, they only have themselves to blam for not doing more (maybe increase size length/width as Edge/Escape replacement on a more efficient C2). Edited August 28, 2022 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 I don’t understand the need for this. The old naming convention wasn’t broken. What a waste of resources again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 15 hours ago, tbone said: I don’t understand the need for this. The old naming convention wasn’t broken. What a waste of resources again. what resources? They order an “active” badge instead of “XLT” 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 16 hours ago, tbone said: I don’t understand the need for this. The old naming convention wasn’t broken. What a waste of resources again. Pricing on the Escape for the past 10 years has been a shit show. If the new names fix that, it’s a win already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 19 hours ago, rmc523 said: what resources? They order an “active” badge instead of “XLT” I guess that means Ford has to pay for 3 more letters from their badge suppliers. ? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 19 hours ago, rmc523 said: what resources? They order an “active” badge instead of “XLT” If you think no resources were spent on something like this you haven’t worked in the corporate world or for the government. It certainly could have been simple, but I highly doubt that it was. Additionally, I should have mentioned my opinion about the continued diminishment of the value of the ST name, unless there is actually a legitimate performance version of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 47 minutes ago, tbone said: Additionally, I should have mentioned my opinion about the continued diminishment of the value of the ST name, unless there is actually a legitimate performance version of it. But the ST-line has been used in the EU for years with just making a sporty appearance package vs having performance to back it up...so its not an issue at all. The ST badge has almost no name recognition when it comes to being a performance model in the NA market. Then with the move to BEVs and the performance levels they offer out of the box, I'm wondering if even adding a performance (unless its something ridiculously fast along the line of the Telsa 3 Plaid for example) badges to the product will even really matter any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j2sys Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 1 hour ago, rperez817 said: I guess that means Ford has to pay for 3 more letters from their badge suppliers. ? Think of the fractions of a penny per unit that they'll need to cut elsewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisgb Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 1 hour ago, rperez817 said: I guess that means Ford has to pay for 3 more letters from their badge suppliers. ? The 2023 will have "Active" badging For 2024, It will be decontented to "Activ." 1 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Chrisgb said: The 2023 will have "Active" badging For 2024, It will be decontented to "Activ." And in 2025 it will just be "Actv" Edited August 29, 2022 by fuzzymoomoo 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 4 hours ago, silvrsvt said: But the ST-line has been used in the EU for years with just making a sporty appearance package vs having performance to back it up...so its not an issue at all. The ST badge has almost no name recognition when it comes to being a performance model in the NA market. Then with the move to BEVs and the performance levels they offer out of the box, I'm wondering if even adding a performance (unless its something ridiculously fast along the line of the Telsa 3 Plaid for example) badges to the product will even really matter any more. The ST models in the North American market have always been designated for the performance-based models. The introduction of the ST-Line designation degrades the significance of the ST models in North America, regardless of what Ford has established in Europe. In addition, using both ST and ST-Line designations in North America will cause confusion and misidentification for both owners and Dealers for resale and trade-in purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 17 hours ago, ice-capades said: The ST models in the North American market have always been designated for the performance-based models. The introduction of the ST-Line designation degrades the significance of the ST models in North America, regardless of what Ford has established in Europe. In addition, using both ST and ST-Line designations in North America will cause confusion and misidentification for both owners and Dealers for resale and trade-in purposes. But the Explorer and Edge offer ST line products already… and the “Performance” ST models didn’t do that well when it came to sedans-it seemed to be successful with the Explorer when it was introduced, but the past two years have been a shit show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 At one time STs we’re something like 30% of Edge sales. I’m guessing Explorer was smaller but still significant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 44 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: But the Explorer and Edge offer ST line products already… and the “Performance” ST models didn’t do that well when it came to sedans-it seemed to be successful with the Explorer when it was introduced, but the past two years have been a shit show. STs were hatchback only and they sold every one built with zero trouble.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 6 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: STs were hatchback only and they sold every one built with zero trouble.... Hatchback AND manual only. It's a miracle Ford sold as many as it did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 25 minutes ago, bzcat said: Hatchback AND manual only. It's a miracle Ford sold as many as it did. Actually, the versatility of the hatchback configuration combined with the reliability of a manual transmission made Focus ST and Fiesta ST 2 of the best passenger cars Ford ever sold in the U.S. market. The fact that they were practical, fun, and reasonably priced didn't hurt either. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 1 hour ago, rperez817 said: Actually, the versatility of the hatchback configuration combined with the reliability of a manual transmission made Focus ST and Fiesta ST 2 of the best passenger cars Ford ever sold in the U.S. market. The fact that they were practical, fun, and reasonably priced didn't hurt either. They held their value remarkably well too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 22 hours ago, bzcat said: Hatchback AND manual only. It's a miracle Ford sold as many as it did. But how many was it actually? seems to be about 5-6% of total sales going by what I’ve found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader 10 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 On 8/30/2022 at 7:06 AM, akirby said: At one time STs we’re something like 30% of Edge sales. I’m guessing Explorer was smaller but still significant. I think we’ve discussed this before, but I don’t believe ST sales have ever been near 30% of Edge sales. Maybe 5 to 10%. (I’m referring to ST and not ST Line). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Trader 10 said: I think we’ve discussed this before, but I don’t believe ST sales have ever been near 30% of Edge sales. Maybe 5 to 10%. (I’m referring to ST and not ST Line). It might be getting information mixed up with the Explorer, which Ford has specifically called out during sales from what I can remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Trader 10 said: I think we’ve discussed this before, but I don’t believe ST sales have ever been near 30% of Edge sales. Maybe 5 to 10%. (I’m referring to ST and not ST Line). I found the source - it was 13%, for some reasonI thought it was higher. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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