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Ford Confirms Layoffs, Says It Is Cutting About 3,000 Jobs - WSJ


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43 minutes ago, akirby said:

They only upgrade software.  

 

Tesla continuously deploys upgrades of both hardware and software for its vehicles. In addition to OTA updates, Tesla has been continuously improving its product each quarter (more recently, multiple times each quarter) on the assembly line, rather than by model year as incumbent automakers do. This has been part of Tesla's strategy since Model S started production in 2012.

 

In industrial engineering and project management terminology, the Tesla approach is "agile", while the incumbent automaker approach is "waterfall".

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18 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

The elephant in the room for Tesla is that their units are getting old in the style department, you have people that are on their second going on third unit that are tired of it being exactly the same and are shopping around. They are making the Henry Ford mistake with the Model T.


It’s not how they’re making changes, it’s what they’re NOT changing.  Regular design changes are necessary and Tesla has not been spending money on that except for maybe a small Model S update.

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10 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Unlike other manufacturers, Tesla does upgrades on the fly so distinctive breaks in models isn’t going to happen 

 

47 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Tesla continuously deploys upgrades of both hardware and software for its vehicles. In addition to OTA updates, Tesla has been continuously improving its product each quarter (more recently, multiple times each quarter) on the assembly line, rather than by model year as incumbent automakers do. This has been part of Tesla's strategy since Model S started production in 2012.

 

In industrial engineering and project management terminology, the Tesla approach is "agile", while the incumbent automaker approach is "waterfall".


All OEM do upgrades on the fly when dealing with quality of parts, fit and finish or even trim pieces, while Tesla might do more they still have defined model years vehicles.

As more electric vehicles come to market the chances of Tesla maintaining that momentum becomes comprised when you're not offering something new. The Model S was striking when it came out but the new EQS and Air make a considerably stronger elegant statement than the S does. The Air is just a beautiful car inside and out, and offers way more than an S does. Once BMW gets the i4 in volume it will be interesting if those 3 series customers that left for Tesla come back.

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57 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

Once BMW gets the i4 in volume it will be interesting if those 3 series customers that left for Tesla come back.


How many of them has Ford siphoned off with the Mach-E and now Lightning? Plus  now GM is entering the fray hard with the Equinox, Silverado and Blazer BEVs, as uninteresting as the Blazer and Equinox are. Obviously there's no way of really measuring that but the point is the increasing competition is going to force Tesla's hand at some point. 

Edited by fuzzymoomoo
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12 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Unlike other manufacturers, Tesla does upgrades on the fly so distinctive breaks in models isn’t going to happen 

 

So far, because they haven't needed to.  They're not immune to the same forces that push all other makes to up their game every so often with significant design changes inside and out.

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1 hour ago, jasonj80 said:

Once BMW gets the i4 in volume it will be interesting if those 3 series customers that left for Tesla come back.

 

Given Tesla's dramatic rise in owner loyalty over the past year and BMW's decline in the same period according to IHS Markit, BMW 3-Series customers who left BMW and bought a Tesla are unlikely to get another BMW, whether an i4 or anything else.

 

Interestingly, the only other luxury brand that improved its owner loyalty rate during that time period was Lincoln.

 

may-2022-and-2021-brand-loyalty-luxury-b

 

Going back to Ford's hiring and layoff actions, the statement below from IHS Markit represents part of the reason Jim Farley is so serious about getting "totally different talent" at Ford.

 

Tesla not only is selling a lot of cars and crossovers (more than any other luxury brand in May), but these buyers like their vehicles and are buying another one. These are ominous findings for the rest of the industry. Every brand - luxury and mainstream - needs to develop an effective competitive response to Tesla as soon as possible.

Edited by rperez817
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7 hours ago, akirby said:


They only upgrade software.  

Under the skin, Tesla introduced gigacastings to the 3 and eliminated a ton of individual parts and welding.

Tesla’s 3 and Y are still relatively young vehicles and world wide sales continue to increase, more for the Y

of course as people prefer utilities but the compact car still sells astonishingly well.

 

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5 hours ago, j2sys said:

 

So far, because they haven't needed to.  They're not immune to the same forces that push all other makes to up their game every so often with significant design changes inside and out.

I think Tesla is meeting its buyer expectations, the quality mightn’t be what I’d expect but who am I to judge an almost frantic fan base as the rest of the world now swept up in all things Tesla. Those sales are creating their own atmosphere in spite of whatever other manufacturers do.

 

Tesla sales are only limited by their ability to produce vehicles, they are a long way from buyers wanting something different. Yes, Tesla will eventually need to do a visual exterior and interior upgrade but something that’s done on the fly with new trims, nose and tail changes, changes that have little affect on production.

 

 

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I’m not a Tesla fan but even I can see that their expansion of new global plants is feeding an increasing amount of buyers. This is really bad news for premium brands that basically rely on a default return buyer base that may no longer exist. It might take a year or so of Texas and Berlin production and sales  to show this but it’s looking like Euro brands like BMW and MB could be in real trouble…

Edited by jpd80
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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

I’m not a Tesla fan but even I can see that their expansion of new global plants is feeding an increasing amount of buyers. This is really bad news for premium brands that basically rely on a default return buyer base that may no longer exist. It might take a year or so of Texas and Berlin production and sales  to show this but it’s looking like Euro brands like BMW and MB could be in real trouble…

 

You are correct jpd80. In fact, BMW and Mercedes-Benz are already facing real trouble in terms of competition from Tesla. 3 years ago, the president of Sonic Automotive (5th largest franchised new car dealership group in the U.S.) said that its luxury car franchises, particularly BMW but Mercedes-Benz to a lesser extent too, were hit hard by customer defections to Tesla. 


There’s no question. I mean … they’re calling out to sell well over 300,000 cars this year, they sold a lot of cars last year. I can tell you that I’ve spent a lot of time in manufacturer meetings, and five years ago, Tesla was just not even a real big topic, and today it’s the top of everybody’s board, and it needs to be.

 

Competition from Tesla has become even more intense for BMW and Mercedes since then.

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3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Under the skin, Tesla introduced gigacastings to the 3 and eliminated a ton of individual parts and welding.

Tesla’s 3 and Y are still relatively young vehicles and world wide sales continue to increase, more for the Y

of course as people prefer utilities but the compact car still sells astonishingly well.

 


The point is they aren’t updating the designs (which so far has saved them a ton of money) but they have to do that sooner or later or risk losing sales.

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Tesla has a built in loyalty as they have been the only game in town for the past 10 years. In the next two years there will considerable  more competition and product that rivals or exceeds what they offer. They will be attacked from both Luxury as well as Volume players. The question is Tesla a luxury manufacturer or are they a mass market brand? What Tesla has though is direct to consumer which is a huge advantage in the cost structure. The past two years has made people HATE dealerships more than ever. 

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1 hour ago, jasonj80 said:

Tesla has a built in loyalty as they have been the only game in town for the past 10 years. In the next two years there will considerable  more competition and product that rivals or exceeds what they offer. They will be attacked from both Luxury as well as Volume players. The question is Tesla a luxury manufacturer or are they a mass market brand? What Tesla has though is direct to consumer which is a huge advantage in the cost structure. The past two years has made people HATE dealerships more than ever. 

The vulnerabilities of Tesla are the build quality and reliability. Luxury price without a true luxury look and feel. Styling is subjective, but to my eyes, look like a high school kid's drawing of a futuristic car, from about 1970. 

The no dealer distribution system is liked by buyers, and is a cost save. As more Tesla buyers become "regular" people without multiple extra vehicles, service will become a larger component of customer satisfaction. My experience with Ford dealers is that servicing is a strong point. 

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34 minutes ago, paintguy said:

The vulnerabilities of Tesla are the build quality and reliability.

 

Tesla automobiles generally have mediocre or subpar build quality and reliability, but that's always been the case. They're actually not vulnerabilities for the company because Tesla customers value other attributes of their cars and are more willing to forgive quality issues compared to customers of Lexus or Genesis for example that emphasize build quality and reliability.

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7 hours ago, akirby said:


The point is they aren’t updating the designs (which so far has saved them a ton of money) but they have to do that sooner or later or risk losing sales.

With respect Tesla and their buyers are not behaving like your regular buyers and yes, as I said, there will be upgrades but the point is that those buyers value battery and tech upgrades more than changing appearance every two or three years. Whatever visible upgrades are planned for the 3 and Y, you can be sure that the change will be easier rolling changes, not a complete factory shutdown gut and reload.

 

This time next year, Tesla will be close to Ford’s entire US sales with similar profit thanks to premium prices and by the time those upgrades are required, Tesla will have more than enough cash to spend on the 3 and Y.

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9 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Tesla automobiles generally have mediocre or subpar build quality and reliability, but that's always been the case. They're actually not vulnerabilities for the company because Tesla customers value other attributes of their cars and are more willing to forgive quality issues compared to customers of Lexus or Genesis for example that emphasize build quality and reliability.


Those buyers who don’t care are a relatively small group and will get smaller as other mfrs produce competitive EVs.  Tesla was the only game in town and Musk has a cult following.  That won’t be sustainable with competition.

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11 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

Tesla has a built in loyalty as they have been the only game in town for the past 10 years. In the next two years there will considerable  more competition and product that rivals or exceeds what they offer. They will be attacked from both Luxury as well as Volume players. The question is Tesla a luxury manufacturer or are they a mass market brand? What Tesla has though is direct to consumer which is a huge advantage in the cost structure. The past two years has made people HATE dealerships more than ever. 

 

Can't they be both? Mass market quality vehicles with luxury prices.

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