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Hybrid/AWD Dead for Next Gen Mustang


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  • ice-capades changed the title to Hybrid/AWD Dead for Next Gen Mustang

I think once the decision to abandon CD6, the hybrid idea became increasingly difficult to justify. The platform just wasn't engineered for it and the whole point of S650 was the keep cost to a minimum so it was axed. But I expect Ford to really borrow Porsche's playbook and bring out one limited production version after another for the next 5 years to milk this ICE sacred cow pony. 

 

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Sucks but it totally makes sense it's not worth investing in a platform that is in its last major refresh and sells 3 or 4 thousand units a month. I'll be waiting for the GE2 coup in '29 or '30 or maybe I will break down and get a Mach E before then. I consider myself a Mustang guy having driven one as a daily driver since '03 even in Wisconsin winters. But I am also a tech guy and was hoping for the hybrid AWD out of the current platform.  Oh well.

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I completely understand this, billions were ripped out of ICE projects to help fund BEVs, no point in extending wiith hybrid if the plan is BEV.

 

My only question is why no compact car with Mach E, that would have made BEV Mustang coupe an easier decision.

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7 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I completely understand this, billions were ripped out of ICE projects to help fund BEVs, no point in extending wiith hybrid if the plan is BEV.

 

My only question is why no compact car with Mach E, that would have made BEV Mustang coupe an easier decision.


I guess we can just expect current engines (tweaked to meet future emissions regulations) to power restyled new Ford ICE vehicles. I'm sure Ford ICE vehicles will live on for a few more years beyond 2029 outside Europe. The EV infrastructure around the globe varies. 

It would be great if Ford did build a lighter more efficient sibling to the Mach E crossover but with the current situation, they probably wouldn't be able to build them because they probably wouldn't have enough battery packs.

PS: How's the EV charging infrastructure in the USA? I'm sure there are states or cities that still have a poor EV to charger ratio.

Norway is known for being the country with the largest market share of EVs (70.7% as of July) but we must also remember that the population of Norway is smaller than Colorado's population.

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16 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

i hope they don’t plan on keeping the current Mustang till 2030-I can see 2028, but not 2030

 

At the very least, Ford should come out with BEV Mustang Coupe and Convertible before 2030. Upcoming BEV muscle cars from Stellantis and GM are expected by mid-decade.

 

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36 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

At the very least, Ford should come out with BEV Mustang Coupe and Convertible before 2030. Upcoming BEV muscle cars from Stellantis and GM are expected by mid-decade.

 

BEV "muscle cars" are pointless. The few people that are still into cars like this aren't into upgraded software with zero wrenching. They will probably wrench on vintage muscle until the government bans them from all public roads. BEV CUVs and trucks are so fast it won't matter. You can argue with me, but this class of vehicle will be the next to be gone. They are already on life support and take away the gray hairs that like to wrench on these the market will shrivel up.

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24 minutes ago, 2005Explorer said:

BEV "muscle cars" are pointless. The few people that are still into cars like this aren't into upgraded software with zero wrenching. They will probably wrench on vintage muscle until the government bans them from all public roads. BEV CUVs and trucks are so fast it won't matter. You can argue with me, but this class of vehicle will be the next to be gone. They are already on life support and take away the gray hairs that like to wrench on these the market will shrivel up.

 

It will be interesting to see how well the Dodge Charger does. I think the Dodge and Chrysler nameplates will be gone within 10 years if not much sooner. 

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28 minutes ago, 2005Explorer said:

BEV CUVs and trucks are so fast it won't matter. You can argue with me, but this class of vehicle will be the next to be gone. They are already on life support and take away the gray hairs that like to wrench on these the market will shrivel up.

 

Good points 2005Explorer, I actually agree with you. ICE powered muscle cars are indeed on life support and will be made instantly obsolete by the introduction of BEV in that vehicle class within the next few years. But what you mentioned about BEV CUV and pickup trucks suggests that BEV muscle cars may have a very short lifespan remaining, despite their technical superiority to ICE muscle cars. It's going to be huge challenge for marketers at Ford, GM, and Stellantis to keep the whole muscle car class alive long term.

 

The automotive market in the U.S. has shifted so strongly to the combination of BEV + CUV or SUV + pickup truck that the Mustang nameplate may in fact be applied only to such new vehicles after 2030.

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43 minutes ago, ehaase said:

 

It will be interesting to see how well the Dodge Charger does. I think the Dodge and Chrysler nameplates will be gone within 10 years if not much sooner. 

I live in an area where we have muscle car rallies and lots of car shows. The vast majority of guys still buying this stuff are 50+ years old and the younger ones are motorheads with mullets. I mean there are a few outside that, but not many. They like to take vintage all the way up to new Mustangs, Camaros, and Challengers and modify them. They like to do burnouts and install loud exhaust. What are they going to do with a BEV? Put a big speaker on the bottom? lol Honestly I think chasing a so called BEV muscle car market is a waste of time and money. BEVs are transportation appliances. That doesn't make them bad, that's just what they are. 

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1 hour ago, 2005Explorer said:

I live in an area where we have muscle car rallies and lots of car shows. The vast majority of guys still buying this stuff are 50+ years old and the younger ones are motorheads with mullets.


The older guys are the ones who can afford to

do this stuff. 
 

The automotive world is changing as we know it. 
 

I would disagree to a point about BEV muscle car being a dinosaur-it would be nice to have something different form factor wise that isn’t a two box format in the form of a crossover or truck to pick from. 
 

not to mention the BEV platform should be able to support multiple top hats far easier then a gas powered vehicle due to the drivetrain being so low in the car and not interfering with packaging. 
 

I don’t see any reason why we can’t have a Mach E Coupe and Crossover on the same platform. 

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4 hours ago, silvrsvt said:


The older guys are the ones who can afford to

do this stuff. 
 

The automotive world is changing as we know it. 
 

I would disagree to a point about BEV muscle car being a dinosaur-it would be nice to have something different form factor wise that isn’t a two box format in the form of a crossover or truck to pick from. 
 

not to mention the BEV platform should be able to support multiple top hats far easier then a gas powered vehicle due to the drivetrain being so low in the car and not interfering with packaging. 
 

I don’t see any reason why we can’t have a Mach E Coupe and Crossover on the same platform. 

 

I have no need or desire to drive a SUV, CUV or pickup truck of any kind. For all the years of driving Mustang GT's, it was a pleasure to drive regardless of whether it was local driving or long distance. And there were certainly times when I'd hop in the car just to get out and enjoy it while going somewhere. Now I'm driving a CUV and it's just a means of transportation to get from Point A to Point B. 

 

I can understand dropping consideration for a hybrid Mustang but there's no excuse for Ford not to develop the BEV Mustang with available AWD. A Mustang, not a 2-door version of the Mach-E.  

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I never thought about the muscle care market dying completely. But the average age of buyer is getting quite high compared to other segments I bet.  It remains to be seen in 2035 if anyone in their 30s or 40s wants a two door coup any longer. Hell they barely sell 10,000 a month now combined! Most of the younger (under 40) car guy people I know are into hot hatches and compact imports (think Focus S/T) not Mustangs and Challengers. Any BEV crossover will be able to come out with a "sport" trim level that matches muscle car performance if there is a market. So why buy a two door thing with trunk? That may sound sacrilegious to boomers and gen x, but millennials and gen z will be driving the market buy 2035. Hot small crossover BEV = evolution of the hot hatch market?  Software updates are right up the alley of 20 somethings who are building there own gaming computers and jail breaking there phones today and flying drones.

 

There will always be performance versions of some vehicles sold. What shape they will take is good question.  Again it sure would be nice if they used the same names as the performance ICE legends once they are gone.  Original point of muscle cars was lots of horse power per dollar spent.  As long as that carries forward why not. 

 

There will be a BEV Mustang coup as long as enough people are willing to buy them. For myself if the 2030 Mach E Crossover and Mach E coupe are the same car with different body, why wouldn't I take the hatch and have a little more utility? 

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53 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

I can understand dropping consideration for a hybrid Mustang but there's no excuse for Ford not to develop the BEV Mustang with available AWD. A Mustang, not a 2-door version of the Mach-E.  


I don't think anyone said they weren't, all that was said is it won't exist concurrently with the ICE Mustang. 

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36 minutes ago, Tico said:

 

I never thought about the muscle care market dying completely. But the average age of buyer is getting quite high compared to other segments I bet.  It remains to be seen in 2035 if anyone in their 30s or 40s wants a two door coup any longer. Hell they barely sell 10,000 a month now combined! Most of the younger (under 40) car guy people I know are into hot hatches and compact imports (think Focus S/T) not Mustangs and Challengers.

 


Im not so sure of that. I see plenty of people my age or younger driving Mustangs, usually either a fox body or S550. Hell, my carpool mate just ordered one, it gets built on the 26th and he's younger than me. Traded his Porsche for it. 

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4 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

The older guys are the ones who can afford to do this stuff. 

 

Very true, and the older guys (me) are the ones who are buying many of today's muscle cars.  We're retired ,have the money, and want to re-live the 1960's one more time before they stick us in a nursing home.  And a BEV just won't do it.  It's ICE or nothing.  Look at the popularity of the Dodge Hellcat.  

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Demand for Mustang will disappear if Ford doesn't make it relevant. And what will be relevant in 10 years is not ICE V8 doing burnouts. That a small subset of people that currently buy Mustangs or Challenger. The majority of the buyer just want a sporty looking 2 door and they are attracted by the heritage of the model and/or the design asethetic of the car. 

 

Porsche is only about a year away from unveiling the fully electric 718 Cayman... we'll see how the market reacts. I suspect the performance will be so overwhelming that most people wouldn't care. Just like when the flat 4 turbo replaced the flat 6 naturally aspirated engine on the Cayman, some people cried bloody murder but most buyers saw that it performed better, was more efficient and cheaper to run/maintain, and sales certainly haven't collapsed. 

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1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


I don't think anyone said they weren't, all that was said is it won't exist concurrently with the ICE Mustang. 

 

No problem, I understood that! I've felt that Ford should have developed a Mustang with AWD capability years ago as it would broaden Mustang's market geographically beyond the Sun Belt, increase potential sales and make it competitive with the high-end competitors that have offered AWD for years. 

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34 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

 

No problem, I understood that! I've felt that Ford should have developed a Mustang with AWD capability years ago as it would broaden Mustang's market geographically beyond the Sun Belt, increase potential sales and make it competitive with the high-end competitors that have offered AWD for years. 


Totally agree. I think they’re being too conservative with it because of the Probe fiasco. 

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I hope that Ford sends the ICE Mustang out as a winner like Ford Australia did with the Falcon.

There’s  time and room to build both super tough ICE Mustangs  and a BEV version and sell both at the same time. Make the ICEs all V8s either 5.0, SC 5.2 or 7.3 (for those who must) as the last hurrah. The BEV Mustang coupe could be there for those embracing the future while Ford slowly closes the gate on the ICE Mustang, a celebration of the past 60 years if you like.

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1 hour ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

While BEVs may be good for a hot lap, they have to cut back the power to protect themselves after as little as 5 seconds in the case of the Mach E GT. So for sustained performance, we're still gonna need ICE cars.


That will be figured out just as ICE engines driving in extreme hot weather were. 30 years ago the freeways out west would look like they allowed parking with the number of vehicles pulled over in heat like they have had the past week. No more blasting the heat  in 100 degree + temps so you might make it over the top of the mountain or pass without over heating. Now 7000lbs of trailer behind you a/c on full blast and the temp gauge might go up a needle in the middle of the afternoon.

 

It’s not if the Mustang Coupe/Convertible  will be electric, it is when. The question will be what is first to market the Mustang Coupe BEV or the Corvette SUV BEV.

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