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Hybrid/AWD Dead for Next Gen Mustang


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23 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


I'm a right leaning libertarian and I'm not against EVs at all, I just thing we need to take a more measured approach to transitioning than this hard deadline mandate the left is pushing. Mandating EVs without addressing any questions about the  infrastructure to support them is a terrible idea. 

 

Also the source of raw materials to manufacture them and the cost to those not in the upper and upper middle classes.

 

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5 hours ago, 2005Explorer said:

This is also the first time I have ever seen politics mixed in with vehicle purchases as well. I am not sure what the political leanings are of people into muscle cars, but I can tell you my conservative friends despise EVs. It's going to be the next big fight after COVID vaccinations and masks. This will be a longer term fight until the Government mandates it. What happens if the conservatives take over again? I am not ready for BEV at all myself, but I am not opposed it. Out here in the middle of rural South Dakota we are a long ways off. Of course cities and urban areas which are full of woke people will drive adoption. 

 

Again it comes back to a make-up of a market. Heck I'd be interested to know the political leanings of all current EV owners. I'm guessing a very heavy liberal tilt.

 

Strategic Vision NVES captures political preference data for new car buyers but doesn't publicize that data. Strategic Vision | NVES

 

An exception was for the 2020 NVES, maybe due to the elections that year in the U.S. Below is a chart summarizing the political preferences of new car buyers by vehicle category in 2020 NVES. 

Notes.

  • APT = hybrid, BEV, and FCEV
  • Mustang coupe and convertible are in the "specialty coupe" category

 

GOP-VS-DEM-CARS-CHT-960p.jpg

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9 hours ago, Captainp4 said:


It is weird how the goal post is always shifting for the anti-EV crowd. Used to be because they were "slow" or "an appliance", now EVs are fast and some of them pretty exciting/enthusiast worthy it's not about performance anymore. (not saying you specifically, akirby, just a general observation about those that hate BEV no matter how many made up things they post on social media about BEV that you tell them aren't true.. there's always another reason)

That said, I think it makes sense for Mustang to stay with ICE and possibly hybrid for as long as possible for the few diehards that are left. With concurrent BEV coupe if they can make the numbers work.

Until Tesla came along, they weren’t much to brag about.  Someone that lived near me and worked where I did (I saw it plugged in at work) had one of those Sparrow 3 wheeled electric things.  I think it was classified as a motorcycle.  Anyway, there were days I would get stuck behind him on a two lane road with no passing.  It was an excruciating trip at 30 or 35 miles an hour because that was all the faster he could go and make it home on a charge.

 

Tesla changed that with performance and range with the Model S.  The 3 came along with a lower price that seemed to hit the sweet spot of the market.  Nobody else is even close.

 

I’m pretty confident that there was always a group that didn’t want ice to go away just for the pleasure of listening to an ice engine run.  Whether it is a 5.0 Mustang, John Deere tractor, or Harley-Davidson motorcycle.  It’s just that they got drowned out by the other issues.

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2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Strategic Vision NVES captures political preference data for new car buyers but doesn't publicize that data. Strategic Vision | NVES

 

An exception was for the 2020 NVES, maybe due to the elections that year in the U.S. Below is a chart summarizing the political preferences of new car buyers by vehicle category in 2020 NVES. 

Notes.

  • APT = hybrid, BEV, and FCEV
  • Mustang coupe and convertible are in the "specialty coupe" category

 

GOP-VS-DEM-CARS-CHT-960p.jpg

I think it should be Democrat not Democratic.  But that’s immaterial.

 

I’m somewhat surprised at all the categories lead by Republican purchasers.  What do they do for mixed households?

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6 hours ago, ehaase said:

 

Also the source of raw materials to manufacture them and the cost to those not in the upper and upper middle classes.

 

Climate Policy Is a Much Greater Threat Than Climate Change - Mish Talk - Global Economic Trend Analysis

There is that aspect to it also.

We as a society need to be ahead of the transition in terms of material sourcing, disposal, infrastructure needs and likely a host of issues nobody has thought about.  No sense in forcing a timeline if all the pieces aren’t in place.  Maybe they are and we just haven’t been told.

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1 hour ago, slemke said:

I think it should be Democrat not Democratic.  But that’s immaterial.

 

I’m somewhat surprised at all the categories lead by Republican purchasers.  What do they do for mixed households?

 

NVES uses the names of the two major U.S. political parties themselves, Democratic and Republican. 

 

Don't know how NVES handles mixed households, though Strategic Vision mentioned that surveys are sent to individual new car buyers.

 

Additional highlights from Strategic Vision NVES.

  • Democrats are less likely to be new-vehicle buyers because they skew younger, have lower incomes, and are more likely to get a used car and/or use public transportation or ride sharing.
  • Democrats who purchase new vehicles keep them from a longer period of time than Republicans. Republicans more likely to own a vehicle for only 3 to 6 years.
  • Attributes most desired in a new car.
    • Democrats. An environmentally friendly vehicle that is both economical and cool.
    • Republicans.  A vehicle seen as powerful, rugged and prestigious.
Edited by rperez817
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17 hours ago, Twin Turbo said:

OK, the UK market is, in relative terms, tiny. But when the S550 was launched here, sales were 60/40 in favour of the V8. By the time the '18 was launched, that became 90/10 in favour of the V8.......to the extent that Ford UK dropped the Ecoboost and the V8 is the only S550 you can buy now.

 

That being said, I have no issue with a full EV Fastback or convertible. The engine never defined what a pony car was, it was the body style......a great looking, sleek 2+2 coupe or convertible with a long hood and a short deck. An EV Mustang can still be a pony car. 

Same thing in Australia, small sales but V8 sales dominate orders, if you’re gonna pay $80k or$90k for a Mustang, you sure as shit don’t want a four cylinder 

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7 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


I'm a right leaning libertarian and I'm not against EVs at all, I just thing we need to take a more measured approach to transitioning than this hard deadline mandate the left is pushing. Mandating EVs without addressing any questions about the  infrastructure to support them is a terrible idea. 

 

The 2035 end of ICE vehicles by California is similar to CAFE standards.  we are talking about 12 plus years, hard to imagine battery technology will not have progressed enough to make Electric Vehicles a clear winner over ICE and to make infrastructure easier (plus to build it)  as batteries will have a longer or quicker charge - assuming solar tech hasn't advanced enough to make plug in charging the exception.     But the important thing, like CAFE standards is to provide a standard manufactures can plan to.    And if for some reason 8 years from now, 2030, we haven't advanced further (and the planet is still habitable)  then California will provide a grace period.    Bottom line set a goal and i'm confident our Car Companies can make it happen. Better than government leading the development of technology. 

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3 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Strategic Vision NVES captures political preference data for new car buyers but doesn't publicize that data. Strategic Vision | NVES

 

An exception was for the 2020 NVES, maybe due to the elections that year in the U.S. Below is a chart summarizing the political preferences of new car buyers by vehicle category in 2020 NVES. 

Notes.

  • APT = hybrid, BEV, and FCEV
  • Mustang coupe and convertible are in the "specialty coupe" category

 

GOP-VS-DEM-CARS-CHT-960p.jpg

Interesting. So it looks like Democrats who don't buy nearly as many new cars are already convinced to "go green" whereas the Republicans need to be convinced. Maybe this is why Elon Musk is trying so hard to piss off the liberals to make friends with the conservative crowd. I mean he figures he already has the Democrats anyhow no matter what so maybe if the conservative crowd likes him they will buy his EV cars.

 

This graphic does bring up a big marketing challenge though because I live in deep red country and they do not like EVs here. I watch social media and if you drive an EV most conservatives think you're woke. You have a man bun, think there are 72 genders and wear Birkenstocks.

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Urban areas lean democrat while rural areas lean Republican.  One buys trucks and SUVs and the other doesn’t generally speaking.

 

There is also a big difference in party affiliation by age.  A lot of folks start life as idealistic democrats but as they get older and wiser they gravitate more Republican.

 

Finally the poor tend to support democrats for obvious reasons.

 

This is more about economics and location than political ideology or “status” symbols.

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