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2023 Escape Orders & Discussion


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19 hours ago, akirby said:


No, it only depends on what you allow the dealer to get away with.   Even if the dealer offers MSRP, you have them write down the current MSRP and that’s your price and it shouldn’t change.  It doesn’t matter what Ford does with MSRP after that because the dealer ends up paying the same price that was in effect at order time.  How that works is strictly between the dealer and Ford.  
 

What happens is people just assume they’ll get MSRP without clarifying it or getting it in writing and then the dealer either slaps on ADMs along with the price increase or they just say we don’t know what the original MSRP was (which is true that Ford doesn’t provide it only the current pricing) but that’s exactly why you need to get it in writing.  Boom here’s your price.  No arguments, no waiting for months to get a refund.  Doesn’t matter how long it takes.  You pay the price you agreed on period.

Of course it depends upon the dealer. I'm just relaying my experience. You'll notice I said it MAY depend upon your circumstance and dealer. I did not have anything in writing (signed) only the printed order form, The dealer honored it both times because they are a reputable dealer. Do they still try to sell add ons? Of course, but they honored Price Protection and took the X-Plan I got by joining the Mustang Club of America.

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5 minutes ago, sgriffin130 said:

Of course it depends upon the dealer. I'm just relaying my experience. You'll notice I said it MAY depend upon your circumstance and dealer. I did not have anything in writing (signed) only the printed order form, The dealer honored it both times because they are a reputable dealer. Do they still try to sell add ons? Of course, but they honored Price Protection and took the X-Plan I got by joining the Mustang Club of America.


My point was it doesn’t depend on the dealer - it depends on you.  If you don’t demand a firm price in writing that’s on you and you’re at the dealers mercy.  If the dealer won’t do that then walk away.

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Nothing is stopping a dealer from adding on thousands of dollars of markups on YOUR custom order. I am happy that everyone apparently has an intimate relationship with their dealer, but most of them are crooks. I shouldn't have to fight for average customer service, or have to tell my dealer that Ford does in fact offer 0% financing. Does Ford realize this puts off people from buying a new car? The whole dealership thing is the reason I have only but USED (until the escape)...

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1 hour ago, Aguy said:

Nothing is stopping a dealer from adding on thousands of dollars of markups on YOUR custom order. I am happy that everyone apparently has an intimate relationship with their dealer, but most of them are crooks. I shouldn't have to fight for average customer service, or have to tell my dealer that Ford does in fact offer 0% financing. Does Ford realize this puts off people from buying a new car? The whole dealership thing is the reason I have only but USED (until the escape)...


Of course Ford realizes and they’ve tried over and over to fix it but thanks to automotive franchise laws their hands are tied.

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On 5/17/2023 at 11:49 AM, chodaddy15 said:

"

"Spoke with my GM... he reached out to management.

The vehicle has been built and released from the plant.... they don't have enough transport trucks vs Inventory to get it here in a quick timely manner.

 

It is waiting to get on a truck to our dealership... it is saying on the tracker May 19th.. it is a long weekend, hopefully it arrives over weekend."

 

So confused how some people who had their PHEVs built after me have had there's shipped. Southern Ontario.

Screenshot_20230516_112335_Chrome.jpg

 

Still hasn't shipped...8th ETA changed to June 6th from April 28th. Has anyone else  gotten their PHEV's shipped and received yet in Ontario Canada? Waiting on a Ford Customer service supervisor to call back to see why it isn't shipping.

Edited by chodaddy15
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1 hour ago, chodaddy15 said:

 

Still hasn't shipped...8th ETA changed to June 6th from April 28th. Has anyone else  gotten their PHEV's shipped and received yet in Ontario Canada? Waiting on a Ford Customer service supervisor to call back to see why it isn't shipping.

 

I'll suggest that it is highly unlikely it is being delivered to Ontario by truck. Our PHEV, which has just arrived in BC was noted on the WS as convoy, but that was only to a rail yard where it was loaded onto a CP/CN train.

 

Ours shipped the day after it was released and took 24 days, which is 1 day over our dealer's average from both KTP & LAP.

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1 hour ago, chodaddy15 said:

PHEV's shipped and received yet in Ontario Canada?

 

Mine shipped out and the delivery window in the tracker bounced around a few times, but it ended up arriving to my dealer near the first half of the original window (arrived May 16, original window was May 8 to June 7, so 2.5 weeks after it was marked built). Now received is a different story....

 

A few posts up is a lot of discussion about price protection, and I'm similarly having some issues there. The MSRP is up (after tax, round numbers, plus X-Plan discount) about $8k from my 2022 order. They had a discount of $4k on the pricing sheet they sent me for the 2023 as a pricing adjustment, and I pointed out that's still a ~$4k increase from what we agreed to and that I was supposed to have price protection. So not sure if only the increases on the 2023 counted or how that came up short, but they said they'd talk to Ford to figure out what it was supposed to be and how it would work. Over a week later and they're still waiting to hear from Ford on what's supposed to happen, and the Escape is still sitting at the dealership...

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16 minutes ago, Potato said:

 

Mine shipped out and the delivery window in the tracker bounced around a few times, but it ended up arriving to my dealer near the first half of the original window (arrived May 16, original window was May 8 to June 7, so 2.5 weeks after it was marked built). Now received is a different story....

 

A few posts up is a lot of discussion about price protection, and I'm similarly having some issues there. The MSRP is up (after tax, round numbers, plus X-Plan discount) about $8k from my 2022 order. They had a discount of $4k on the pricing sheet they sent me for the 2023 as a pricing adjustment, and I pointed out that's still a ~$4k increase from what we agreed to and that I was supposed to have price protection. So not sure if only the increases on the 2023 counted or how that came up short, but they said they'd talk to Ford to figure out what it was supposed to be and how it would work. Over a week later and they're still waiting to hear from Ford on what's supposed to happen, and the Escape is still sitting at the dealership...

 

E-mail updates from Ford are not necessarily sent on a timely basis or contain the most recent or accurate information. Your Dealer has 24/7 access to the most recent status information.

 

Vehicles shipped to Canada will routinely take longer due to the reduced volume of vehicles being shipped from a plant to Canadian destinations. The shipping method listed on the Window Sticker is not always accurate and may be misleading. The vast majority of vehicles are shipped by rail, but the Window Sticker may show the shipping method as "Convoy" when vehicles may be transported to another location to be loaded on a rail car. Rail cars destined for a particular rail ramp location will not leave the plant until the rail car is full of vehicles headed to the same rail ramp destination.

 

Price protection is automatic and does not normally cover multiple Model Years. In cases where Ford has initiated special price protection for retail orders that cannot be built in the original Model Year the order was submitted and orders have to be converted or reordered for the following Model Year, Ford publishes a special price protection notice for Dealers. Those price protection notices are available to Dealers at the FMCDealer.com portal. It should not take a week or longer for your Dealer to either locate or receive that information from their Ford representative.  

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On 5/25/2023 at 12:55 PM, CoolScoop said:

^^^ how long does it take for tracker to update after getting a VIN?  Just got it today with the Thursday scheduling... but build week isn't showing in the tracker yet, still at order confirmation. 

My order tracker is worthless so far... got email with VIN, July 17 build week, and tracker link a week ago but tracker is still at order confirmed.  Why isn't the tracker showing correct status in real time?

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8 hours ago, chodaddy15 said:

Hmmm maybe this is why they aren't shipping mine

image.thumb.png.48f9eaaa338886fce56ecb703432aef6.png

 

Did you receive a copy from your dealer. Just checked with our Sales Manager and although he is on days off, he hasn't received anything from Ford Canada yet. Our PHEV is still on the lot, so could be a while before we pick it up.

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24 minutes ago, Rangers09 said:

 

Did you receive a copy from your dealer. Just checked with our Sales Manager and although he is on days off, he hasn't received anything from Ford Canada yet. Our PHEV is still on the lot, so could be a while before we pick it up.

This letter is from the Ford Maverick Club post. No word from my dealer yet

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3 hours ago, chodaddy15 said:

This letter is from the Ford Maverick Club post. No word from my dealer yet

 

4th quarter???  They're going to hold deliveries of all hybrid Escapes, Corsairs, and Mavericks until the 4th quarter?

 

What are "new in-stock vehicles"? Does Ford include retail orders as in-stock? 

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2 hours ago, akirby said:


Of course not.  In-stock is the opposite of retail.

 

Of course yes.  Retail orders enter dealer stock, and, if the dealer has integrity, is immediately put on hold to give the perspective buyer essentially the right of first refusal.  Ford's incentives use eligibility terms referring to taking delivery from dealer stock by x date.  Retail orders qualify because the vehicle is delivered to dealer stock, and then you buy it from them.

 

NHTSA does not care if a vehicle was a retail order with a customer lined up or intended for dealer inventory.  NHTSA dictates that any vehicle with an open safety recall such as 23S27 must not be delivered or "demonstrated" to a customer, with the dealer subject to penalties typically quoted as civil penalties and fines up to $21,000 per unit sold in violation of such a delivery/demonstration hold.  It's not okay to sell a brand new vehicle with a known safety issue that has not been repaired, whether or not a customer has been waiting for the vehicle since it was ordered.

 

If an Escape, Maverick, or Corsair's VIN is flagged with 23S27, it is subject to this delivery/demonstration hold.  You cannot test drive it, you cannot deliver it.  The dealer may want to have you complete the paperwork and take your money, but they're not permitted to provide you with the keys and let you leave the lot for it.  They can't even let you drive it around their lot.

 

The fact that it was a retail order vs. a stock order has no bearing here.

 

Long story short: if a vehicle subject to recall 23S27 is on the dealer lot and you haven't signed the paperwork, exchanged money, and received the keys, then it's going to sit on the dealer's lot until the recall is closed out.

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19 minutes ago, j2sys said:

 

Of course yes.  Retail orders enter dealer stock, and, if the dealer has integrity, is immediately put on hold to give the perspective buyer essentially the right of first refusal.  Ford's incentives use eligibility terms referring to taking delivery from dealer stock by x date.  Retail orders qualify because the vehicle is delivered to dealer stock, and then you buy it from them.

 

NHTSA does not care if a vehicle was a retail order with a customer lined up or intended for dealer inventory.  NHTSA dictates that any vehicle with an open safety recall such as 23S27 must not be delivered or "demonstrated" to a customer, with the dealer subject to penalties typically quoted as civil penalties and fines up to $21,000 per unit sold in violation of such a delivery/demonstration hold.  It's not okay to sell a brand new vehicle with a known safety issue that has not been repaired, whether or not a customer has been waiting for the vehicle since it was ordered.

 

If an Escape, Maverick, or Corsair's VIN is flagged with 23S27, it is subject to this delivery/demonstration hold.  You cannot test drive it, you cannot deliver it.  The dealer may want to have you complete the paperwork and take your money, but they're not permitted to provide you with the keys and let you leave the lot for it.  They can't even let you drive it around their lot.

 

The fact that it was a retail order vs. a stock order has no bearing here.

 

Long story short: if a vehicle subject to recall 23S27 is on the dealer lot and you haven't signed the paperwork, exchanged money, and received the keys, then it's going to sit on the dealer's lot until the recall is closed out.


I know that’s how incentives work but what was confusing here was using the terminology “do not demonstrate or deliver any new in-stock vehicles”.  It’s impossible to deliver something that isn’t “in-stock” - if they meant everything they should have just said that.  
 

You’re probably right but it says it’s ok for existing owners to keep driving them so I thought maybe they were making an exception for retail orders in this case.  If not then they should not have worded it that way.

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3 minutes ago, akirby said:


I know that’s how incentives work but what was confusing here was using the terminology “do not demonstrate or deliver any new in-stock vehicles”.  It’s impossible to deliver something that isn’t “in-stock” - if they meant everything they should have just said that.  
 

You’re probably right but it says it’s ok for existing owners to keep driving them so I thought maybe they were making an exception for retail orders in this case.  If not then they should not have worded it that way.

 

There are standards that are required of a new vehicle to be legally eligible for sale in the US, to include FMVSS compliance and no open (safety) recalls.  A vehicle with a known safety issue cannot be sold to the public.  Doesn't matter how long you've been waiting to buy it from the dealer.  NHTSA exists to enact and enforce these standards, amongst other responsibilities.

 

The standards are a little different when it comes to vehicles that have already entered the general population which are subject to a recall.  The exact details will vary based on the nature of the recall.  In the case of the Chevy Bolt battery recall, drivers were advised to park them outside, a certain distance from structures and other vehicles, until they were repaired.  23S27 instructs drivers to watch out for symptoms of engine failure and promptly pull over and get out.  It's overall rare that a recall instructs drivers to park the vehicle and not drive it.  NHTSA/federal law generally does not prohibit the sale of a used vehicle with an open recall, but some states and/or dealers may still respect the delivery hold.

 

A vehicle is a large investment (expensive asset) and we rely on them for our transportation needs.  So, while it seems reasonable that you cannot sell a vehicle that has open safety concerns, it's also reasonable that it should take a higher level of concern before you prevent people from driving their vehicle.  Alternative arrangements would need to be made.  For a recall of this size, that would also be over 100,000 rental cars Ford would have to provide indefinitely (through the end of the year and beyond, potentially, based on the dealer notice of the demo/delivery hold) lest they leave us all high and dry.

 

Side note: One can get into legal arguments about "sold" vs. "delivered", but the sale is not fully complete until the keys are in your hand and you're able to drive it off the lot.

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9 hours ago, chodaddy15 said:

This letter is from the Ford Maverick Club post. No word from my dealer yet

 

I sent a copy to our Sales Manager and he advised that he seen the information. He is back on Saturday, so I will pop in for a chat.

 

Your dealer should know about it now.

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So 'engine failure expected to produce loud metal-to-metal clank noises audible to vehicle occupants'... The engines are throwing rods? Breaking crankshafts? Bearings? And the risk of fire comes from a hole in the block?

 

I thought Ford had this platform pretty well ironed out... Haven't they've been producing the Atkinson cycle hybrid engine for something like 15 years now?

 

Has anyone seen an estimate of how many vehicles have experienced this failure? 

 

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Regarding the Demonstration/Deliver Hold, if the vehicle Build Date is in the production period stated in the notice, the Dealer needs to run the VIN number to confirm the vehicle status. Regardless, it's always advisable to check the VIN number as a routine procedure for all vehicles. 

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