akirby Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 3 hours ago, Harley Lover said: If Ford want to avoid becoming a regional automaker, being king of pickups won't be good enough. You know better than that. This discussion was specific to cybertruck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 2 hours ago, akirby said: You know better than that. This discussion was specific to cybertruck. Just messing around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 17 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I don’t give a shit about reservation numbers. Give me production and sales numbers. Oh wait, nobody can because they don’t exist. Can say the same about all the new BEVs and huge sales number Ford has promised from them.... Might've been something going on with global supply chain holding things up a little. Same as Ford (and people on here) touting lightning and bronco reservations, Tesla has demand for every vehicle they build for the foreseeable future and production increasing dramatically as the giga plants come online. Reservations are a strong indicator of demand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 28 minutes ago, Captainp4 said: Same as Ford (and people on here) touting lightning and bronco reservations, Tesla has demand for every vehicle they build for the foreseeable future and production increasing dramatically as the giga plants come online. Reservations are a strong indicator of demand. That's correct Captainp4. Ford President Kumar Galhotra confirmed exactly what you said about reservations, and did so more than once. While of course not all reservation holders will follow through with an actual purchase or lease, the number of reservations at Ford for F-150 Lightning, at GM for Hummer EV pickup, Silverado EV, and Sierra EV, and at Tesla for Cybertruck indicate there's a lot of pent-up demand for truly capable and technically excellent BEV pickup trucks. Demand will exceed supply for these pickup trucks for many years, maybe even into the next decade. Simply producing enough will be the most important challenge that their manufacturers face. For Ford, getting Blue Oval City operational as soon as possible will be critical. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 54 minutes ago, Captainp4 said: Can say the same about all the new BEVs and huge sales number Ford has promised from them.... Might've been something going on with global supply chain holding things up a little. Same as Ford (and people on here) touting lightning and bronco reservations, Tesla has demand for every vehicle they build for the foreseeable future and production increasing dramatically as the giga plants come online. Reservations are a strong indicator of demand. Heres the difference, Ford is building stuff. Cybertruck is still vaporware 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 26 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Heres the difference, Ford is building stuff. Cybertruck is still vaporware Tesla is building stuff too. Ford has made promises about products that are still "vaporware" too. Cybertruck will be in production in '23 and they'll sell every hideous one they make, I'll bet you one internet point ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Captainp4 said: Tesla is building stuff too. Ford has made promises about products that are still "vaporware" too. Cybertruck will be in production in '23 and they'll sell every hideous one they make, I'll bet you one internet point ? Cybertruck is not at all the same as other Tesla automobiles. I still don’t believe it will see production and I think a huge portion of cybertruck reservations jumped ship to Lightning, Rivian and Silverado. The futuristic design won’t meet safety requirements and it has none of the classic truck functionality. If it does make it to production it will be far different and far more expensive than advertised and it will have established competition. There is a reason it keeps getting pushed back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 37 minutes ago, akirby said: Cybertruck is not at all the same as other Tesla automobiles. I still don’t believe it will see production and I think a huge portion of cybertruck reservations jumped ship to Lightning, Rivian and Silverado. The futuristic design won’t meet safety requirements and it has none of the classic truck functionality. If it does make it to production it will be far different and far more expensive than advertised and it will have established competition. There is a reason it keeps getting pushed back. Well obviously the price is going to increase with everything that is going on outside of vehicles, like every other BEV (including lightning). The initial 40k price target is a pipe dream now and I believe Tesla already stated that it will increase. What about this won't meet safety requirements? Looks like it has all the lights it needs and the required mirrors https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-cybertruck-spied-tail-light-design/ Edit: I know there's a lot more to safety requirements than the lights and mirrors, just asking if I'm missing something obvious about the design that wouldn't make it safe or legal Edited October 25, 2022 by Captainp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 Crash testing and pedestrian safety just to name a few. There’s a reason it was delayed 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 1 hour ago, akirby said: Crash testing and pedestrian safety just to name a few. There’s a reason it was delayed 3 years. Windshield wipers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 21 hours ago, akirby said: Crash testing and pedestrian safety just to name a few. There’s a reason it was delayed 3 years. What makes it different then any other pickup in that context? 20 hours ago, sullynd said: Windshield wipers. It has a giant single wiper on it now that also looks terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 23 minutes ago, Captainp4 said: What makes it different then any other pickup in that context? Ummm…. the entire front end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 59 minutes ago, akirby said: Ummm…. the entire front end? Not trying to be obtuse here, but.. what about it? It has a bumper and a vertical "grill" area like any other pickup.. probably less area than the overgrown grills of current trucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Captainp4 said: Not trying to be obtuse here, but.. what about it? It has a bumper and a vertical "grill" area like any other pickup.. probably less area than the overgrown grills of current trucks If you think it looks or performs like any other pickup I’m not sure what to tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 23 minutes ago, akirby said: If you think it looks or performs like any other pickup I’m not sure what to tell you. That's not what I said at all, but okay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 4 hours ago, Captainp4 said: That's not what I said at all, but okay The height of the bumper, the extremely short front end, the angled hood and windshield present big problems for crash testing compliance and pedestrian safety requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, akirby said: The height of the bumper, the extremely short front end, the angled hood and windshield present big problems for crash testing compliance and pedestrian safety requirements. Just so people get a feel for what you’re saying…. wouldn’t it be funny if, crash testing was a real problem not only for the rating but cost of repairs… Edited October 27, 2022 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 This is a F150. Notice how the front end absorbs the crash energy. Now imagine the cybertruck in te same test. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 17 hours ago, Captainp4 said: Not trying to be obtuse here, but.. what about it? It has a bumper and a vertical "grill" area like any other pickup.. probably less area than the overgrown grills of current trucks The A pillar of the truck extends all the way to the front most part of the truck where the most damage would occur in such an accident. It would cause a massive compromise on the cab, compounded by the excessive weight that an EV brings to the table. That's a lot of inertia for a weak roof frame to absorb. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 The design team and/or Elon himself wrote a check the production team can’t cash. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 Not sure I agree with the (non)crash worthy premise. Look at the VW ID. Buzz. From my armchair arguing position, I would say that the passenger compartment is closer to the front end than the Tesla, yet it meets crash standards: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 51 minutes ago, Harley Lover said: Not sure I agree with the (non)crash worthy premise. Look at the VW ID. Buzz. From my armchair arguing position, I would say that the passenger compartment is closer to the front end than the Tesla, yet it meets crash standards: its not that..it seems like the entire structure would be compromised in an accident with the Cyber truck. the Buzz van is more upright when it comes to the windshield/A pillar, where the Cyber trucks A pillar is its hood also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 14 hours ago, akirby said: The height of the bumper, the extremely short front end, the angled hood and windshield present big problems for crash testing compliance and pedestrian safety requirements. 3 hours ago, atomcat68 said: The A pillar of the truck extends all the way to the front most part of the truck where the most damage would occur in such an accident. It would cause a massive compromise on the cab, compounded by the excessive weight that an EV brings to the table. That's a lot of inertia for a weak roof frame to absorb. 2 hours ago, akirby said: The design team and/or Elon himself wrote a check the production team can’t cash. Thank you for an actual answer. Bumper height I'm not sure I see much difference there, this thing would be in a super duty class weight wise I'd assume, but even half ton height looks similar. I don't have numbers and just thinking out loud on this point, but I think there's similar distance from the front bumper to the passenger area, just visually looks so short up front because of the design of the A pillar and large windshield. I do see the point on the A pillar possibly being an issue, but I don't think we'd still be seeing the same design on pre-production units that they're showing in public if it was that much of an issue and it was going to change drastically when they get to production. I'd venture a guess that the Tesla team can figure that one out (the crash structure is under the skin anyway, who knows what's going on underneath there). I could be wrong, but I guess we'll find out soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Captainp4 said: Thank you for an actual answer. Sorry I honestly thought the potential problems were blatantly obvious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 I'm sure Tesla had modeled the crash test extensively. And I'm sure it went back to the design team repeatedly. We still haven't seen the production version of the Cyber Truck so we don't know what the final form looks like. One of the reason VW cancelled several bus revival projects over the last 20 years was that the short hood with ICE shoved in there will not pass crash test. They were able to achieve this form factor with ID Buzz because there is no ICE in front of the front axle so in the event of a crash, there is no giant mass of metal object trying to kill the passengers. You can think of Cyber Truck the same way... it doesn't need as much crumple zone as F-150. But the shape of the cab and the underlying safety cage design still matters. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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