Jump to content

Ford Starts Construction of Blue Oval City


Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, bzcat said:

I'm sure Tesla had modeled the crash test extensively. And I'm sure it went back to the design team repeatedly.


I wouldn’t be surprised if Elon had it created as a design concept without any consideration for actual production then just decided we’re going to build it!  And the engineers crapped their pants.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was a certain level of inevitability to Ford dropping MEB after VW’s former CEO said that it’s EVs take too long to build.

CE1 looks like the same philosophy as GE2 but for specific Compact vehicles, maybe repurposed Mach E architecture as a brownfield start but cannot get confirmation on that…

Edited by jpd80
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Mind you stubby nosed Transit Custom easily passes frontal crash testing…..

But it also doesn’t have a 30 degree raked windshield either

 

its not to say that the cyber truck can’t be built it’s just the front end will have to be designed slightly differently-basically it will need more of a break from the hood to the A pillar instead of the almost continuous 30 degree angle from the front of the hood to the B pillar on it. 
 

Think Lamborghini front end-they have a similar shape as the cyber truck and I’d assume crash issues since they don’t have an engine in the front. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, jpd80 said:

There was a certain level of inevitability to Ford dropping MEB after VW’s former CEO said that it’s EVs take too long to build.

CE1 looks like the same philosophy as GE2 but for specific Compact vehicles, maybe repurposed Mach E architecture as a brownfield start but cannot get confirmation on that…


Well sometimes it’s better to do something instead of being stuck in waiting for the next Gen to come along. I’m sure Ford also figured out that sharing a platform with VW didn’t work out as well as they thought, but at least they are building the Ranger for VW also. 
 

I think the issue with BEVs is certain things need to be unlearned that have been processes for the past 80 years or so

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

I think the issue with BEVs is certain things need to be unlearned that have been processes for the past 80 years or so

 

For legacy automakers, almost everything needs to be unlearned in order for them to be successful with the design, engineering, manufacture, and marketing of BEV long term. Totally different mindset and totally different talent are necessary. At Ford, Jim Farley recognizes this and has taken appropriate actions, several of which are evident with Blue Oval City.

Edited by rperez817
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, silvrsvt said:


Well sometimes it’s better to do something instead of being stuck in waiting for the next Gen to come along. I’m sure Ford also figured out that sharing a platform with VW didn’t work out as well as they thought, but at least they are building the Ranger for VW also. 

Ironically, the Mach E turned out to be a competitor to the Tesla E, so I give Farley and his vision full marks for that. The big issue I have is that they didn’t correct the need for electrified C2s, their best thought was to see if they could access VW’s MEB and use Ford top hats. Ginning up a deal while discussing other supply deals that brought home home the equivalent of “magic beans” for Hackett who then called it a Job Done moment.

 

Quote

I think the issue with BEVs is certain things need to be unlearned that have been processes for the past 80 years or so

Absolutely and great point btw, this is all about perception of the business and how to handle transition. Like their competition, I’m sure Ford thought that Electrics are easy, all we have to do is change the power train, add a battery and boom baby, profits keep coming. 

 

Now that Ford has seen how Tesla uses Idra’s Gigacastings presses to reduce complex stamped and welded parts to a casting produced every 90 seconds, you can bet their manufacturing will need to embrace that or go to skate board/true chassis. The fact that Ford is not competing directly with Tesla gives it time to get ready…….one thing though, where will Tesla be by 2027?

Edited by jpd80
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/28/2022 at 6:10 PM, jpd80 said:

New Ford EV architecture CE1 for Louisville beginning 2027, small compact and pickup

MEB now in the rear vision mirror, save for obligated builds at Cologne.

Another bit of Hackett’s legacy gone…

 

How new is the info on CE1? You've done a great job uncovering info that was not widely known prior to your post!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/28/2022 at 5:10 PM, jpd80 said:

New Ford EV architecture CE1 for Louisville beginning 2027, small compact and pickup

MEB now in the rear vision mirror, save for obligated builds at Cologne.

Another bit of Hackett’s legacy gone…


I figured it was a similar decision to not using the Rivian platform. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/28/2022 at 6:10 PM, jpd80 said:

New Ford EV architecture CE1 for Louisville beginning 2027, small compact and pickup

MEB now in the rear vision mirror, save for obligated builds at Cologne.

Another bit of Hackett’s legacy gone…

 

So - this makes even more concrete the reason for selecting the Kentucky location for the twin battery plant (Louisville always had a future).

Does this also mean that OAC will definitely be getting GE2?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

So - this makes even more concrete the reason for selecting the Kentucky location for the twin battery plant (Louisville always had a future).

Does this also mean that OAC will definitely be getting GE2?

Yes, GE2 is now a done deal for OAC as Ford has ditched MEB for North America and will limit to two vehicles for Cologne (2023 & 2024)

 

I’ve  been hinting for a while that the current MME platform will evolve and use newer electrics from GE2,

the next step after that is wider use on US based compact vehicles  like BS and Maverick.

 

Thees no point in using VW’s MEB platform if a Ford design  is equal to or less costly. I think it was all about battery supply through VW and now that Ford is making its own battery packs with guaranteed supply, the need for VW and it’s battery sourcing is gone.

Edited by jpd80
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, ehaase said:

Borg posted it on GMI.

If you recall, I’ve been asking about what’s happening with the original GE platform in use under MME,

now rumours suggest that it will evolving with Gen 2 components and become CE1.

 

I couldn’t get confirmation from sources but Borg has obviously heard something, all makes sense btw..

but the 2027 date tells me that this is a recent decision…

Edited by jpd80
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Yes, GE2 is now a done deal for OAC as Ford has ditched MEB for North America and will limit to two vehicles for Cologne (2023 & 2024)

 

Makes me wonder about the timing of it-OAC is going to be building what I'm guessing is the kinda sorta Edge replacement that will be called some sort of an Explorer-I'm sure it won't be as big as the CD6 one since its next gen MME platform.

That means that is the only product they'll be building till the CE1 hits a couple years later. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

On 10/28/2022 at 6:10 PM, jpd80 said:

New Ford EV architecture CE1 for Louisville beginning 2027, small compact and pickup

MEB now in the rear vision mirror, save for obligated builds at Cologne.

Another bit of Hackett’s legacy gone…

 

On 10/28/2022 at 6:48 PM, jpd80 said:

CE1 looks like the same philosophy as GE2 but for specific Compact vehicles, maybe repurposed Mach E architecture as a brownfield start but cannot get confirmation on that…

 

6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I’ve been hinting for a while that the current MME platform will evolve and use newer electrics from GE2,

the next step after that is wider use on US based compact vehicles  like BS and Maverick.

 

6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

If you recall, I’ve been asking about what’s happening with the original GE platform in use under MME,

now rumours suggest that it will evolving with Gen 2 components and become CE1.

 

I couldn’t get confirmation from sources but Borg has obviously heard something, all makes sense btw..

but the 2027 date tells me that this is a recent decision…

 

Wow you were spot on! ? We discussed this before and I liked your idea of evolving the current MME platform into a new one while using tech from GE2 for the 'C2' based US vehicles. A great way to amortize the development costs of the MME platform. I previously suggested the Maverick, Bronco Sport, and even 1st generation Escape for this platform which is now 'CE1'. I also previously mentioned the 2nd generation Escape BEV could eventually be on the GE2 once the Explorer/Aviator was out and all initial production bugs were worked out. I even had an idea of having the next generation MME be on GE2 (I previously thought this was Ford's plan and it may still be that) and then taking the current MME (after it's updated/redesigned onto new now-known-as 'CE1') and rename it 'Mustang Mach-E Sport', creating another new member of the Mustang family.

But now I see that the GE2 is apparently a mid-size 3-row BEV? This was news to me because I thought the GE2 architecture was scalable to include smaller 2-row BEVs. This could have eventually been for Escape BEV, the next generation MME, as well as other global small BEVs as well. I'm sure that's still the case but the 2-row BEVs from GE2 would still be a long way off since Ford wants to get the high-margin Explorer/Aviator and other mid-size BEVs out as soon as possible. Makes me wonder what Ford's plans were for the MME in general as well as the true 2-door Mustang BEV if the GE2 was a mid-size 3-row BEV architecture. I may have this tidbit wrong so please correct me if I'm wrong regarding GE2. I think the next generation 'MME' should evolve onto larger GE2 with both 2-row and 3-row (two lengths) as a sporty Mustang-inspired Lifestyle crossover and offered with a 5,000-pound factory tow package. The smaller 'MME Sport' continues as it's marketed but on the newer CE1. This could be offered with a 2,000-pound or 3,500-pound factory tow package. We shall see what happens.

This is why your idea of what is now known as CE1 is logical. It's a great short-term solution for smaller 2-row US-based 'C2' vehicles. Until either the actual scalable-smaller GE2 BEVs come out - likely later in decade or early 2030s - or if the CE1 eventually becomes GE2-based smaller CE2, which would be an all-new global smaller BEV architecture. That would be great for 2nd generation BEVs of Maverick, Bronco Sport, Escape, and globally: Fiesta, Focus, Galaxy, etc. I seen some suggested Capri and Cortina, etc. Those would work in Europe and there's old nameplates that could be leveraged in Australia and other places too with the global CE2, but that's still a long way off. By then, at least the development costs would be reduced and hopefully the battery tech by then would enable longer range, quicker charge, and be safer, while still being cheaper to develop and produce.

 

12 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

So - this makes even more concrete the reason for selecting the Kentucky location for the twin battery plant (Louisville always had a future).

Does this also mean that OAC will definitely be getting GE2?

 

Yes the LAP in Louisville did have a long-term future planned. Ford already done lots of work in making the plant green as possible over the years. They wouldn't have done that if they intended to eventually shut it down or sell the plant in the near future. The new battery plant is not far from LAP which already told me that Ford intends on keeping LAP for its EV future. So I'm thrilled with this new info, though still not 100% officially confirmed.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Makes me wonder about the timing of it-OAC is going to be building what I'm guessing is the kinda sorta Edge replacement that will be called some sort of an Explorer-I'm sure it won't be as big as the CD6 one since its next gen MME platform.

That means that is the only product they'll be building till the CE1 hits a couple years later. 

Yes, 2027 for compact BEVs is miles off and indicates just how late this decision came…

 

The GE2 has a lot wider track and longer wheelbase like Explorer,

compact Mach E’s 117” wheelbase tells us that the GE2 Explorer

will be about the size of the CD6 version………

Edited by jpd80
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Yes, 2027 for compact BEVs is miles off and indicates just how late this decision came…

 

The GE2 has a lot wider track and longer wheelbase like Explorer,

compact Mach E’s 117” wheelbase tells us that the GE2 Explorer

will be about the size of the CD6 version………

 

Crap I didn't know the wheel base on the Mach E was that long-I was thinking it was closer to the regular Mustang or Escape. 

Its only 2 inches shorter wheelbase wise and almost 5 inches narrower then the current CD6

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Crap I didn't know the wheel base on the Mach E was that long-I was thinking it was closer to the regular Mustang or Escape. 

Its only 2 inches shorter wheelbase wise and almost 5 inches narrower then the current CD6

 

Exactly, one of the changes made to give the Mach E a better look was pushing the front axles further forward,

(the C-Max originally chose I believe was around 112” wheelbase)

 

Looking at the GE2 mule with Mach E Top hat, it’s clear the chassis is too big for this vehicle and much longer wheelbase

https://www.carscoops.com/2021/07/mysterious-ford-mustang-mach-e-mule-spied-might-be-an-electric-lincoln/

Edited by jpd80
Link to comment
Share on other sites

did not know where to put this so here it is:

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-02/australian-solar-records-tumble-as-coal-eclipsed/101606490

 

Soaring power production from households and businesses with rooftop solar panels has sent records tumbling across Australia, with output from fossil fuels falling to all-time lows.

 

 

In events described as unprecedented, demand for electricity from the grid plummeted to record lows in Queensland, Victoria, South Australia and Western Australia during the past two months.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, tarheels23 said:

did not know where to put this so here it is:

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-02/australian-solar-records-tumble-as-coal-eclipsed/101606490

 

Soaring power production from households and businesses with rooftop solar panels has sent records tumbling across Australia, with output from fossil fuels falling to all-time lows.

 

 

In events described as unprecedented, demand for electricity from the grid plummeted to record lows in Queensland, Victoria, South Australia and Western Australia during the past two months.

 

Thanks for sharing that tarheels23. I think it makes perfect sense to put the article in this this thread, because some of Ford's aspirations for Blue Oval City are "100% renewable energy, zero waste to landfill and reusing water". Blue Oval City (ford.com)

Edited by rperez817
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, tarheels23 said:

did not know where to put this so here it is:

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-02/australian-solar-records-tumble-as-coal-eclipsed/101606490

 

Soaring power production from households and businesses with rooftop solar panels has sent records tumbling across Australia, with output from fossil fuels falling to all-time lows.

 

 

In events described as unprecedented, demand for electricity from the grid plummeted to record lows in Queensland, Victoria, South Australia and Western Australia during the past two months.

Rapid moves in going solar because Aussie power prices are expected to increase 50% in the next two years, so the more power you generated at home, the better. Certain areas are subsidising adding solar to roofs, everything helps in a country that gets a ton of sunshine.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...