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Oakville Assembly Plant - Explorer & Aviator EV's


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2 hours ago, bzcat said:

2. As some people rightly pointed out already, Chicago doesn't have any product other than keep building Police Interceptor beyond 2025. What we don't know is if there are any new EV CUV Ford has in the product pipeline... I guess we won't know until UAW contract negotiation is done but I think long term, Ford must have more EV CUV planned beyond Escape, Mach E, and Explorer. Ford needs an EV below Escape and an alternative to Mach E that leans more utility than sport. 

 

 

According to Ford Authority, there will be one more generation of ICE Explorer:

Next-Generation Gasoline Ford Explorer Will Likely Debut In 2026 (fordauthority.com)

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35 minutes ago, akirby said:

Since that’s the only thing most voters will read it should explain the why and the potential benefits.

 

Except the explanation only mentions the benefits, glossing over the cost to taxpayers in the County.  Without a ROI statement, it's 1-sided.

 

HRG

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24 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Except the explanation only mentions the benefits, glossing over the cost to taxpayers in the County.  Without a ROI statement, it's 1-sided.

 

HRG

If that is DuPage County in Illinois, I am shocked, just shocked that an Illinois county would not address cost and benefits. Getting back to topic, glad Oakville has some new product. Hope there is a continued role for CAP. Would like to see an ongoing role for plug in hybrid. Still a need for those who tow or drive longer distances. Know someone with a Mustang Mach E and an Expedition. Not an option for everyone.

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29 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Except the explanation only mentions the benefits, glossing over the cost to taxpayers in the County.  Without a ROI statement, it's 1-sided.

 

HRG


You can’t put gory details like that on the ballot.  It’s up to voters to do their research before voting.  I’m sure there are details available from the county and I’m sure there was public discussion before the vote.

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31 minutes ago, paintguy said:

Would like to see an ongoing role for plug in hybrid. Still a need for those who tow or drive longer distances. Know someone with a Mustang Mach E and an Expedition. Not an option for everyone.

What is the point of even that-Ford isn’t investing money into ICE because it’s a technological “dead end”. 
 

There will be more improvements in range and recharging in the next 10-15 years that will make whatever issues people are complaining about or expecting a BEV to operate just like a gas powered car that will be eliminated by those improvements. 

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6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Possibly something lots of communities will be asking about before committing big $$$$.

 

Nowadays it's not a question of whether or not municipal governments should invest in public EV charging initiatives (of course they should), but how.

 

Oakville, Ontario (where Ford's OAC is located) provides an excellent example of integrating such initiatives into urban planning. Oakville's main street EV charging network a model of integrated city planning in action (electricautonomy.ca)

 

Situated 40 kilometres west of Toronto, Oakville has spent two years and $20 million revitalizing the town’s main street. One of the driving goals was to make the urban centre EV-friendly through the installation of 16 Level 2 chargers with two designated parking spots per station.

 

“Our Oakville community is committed to being a part of Canada’s clean energy future,” says [Oakville MP] Anita Anand. “Our government continues to support green infrastructure projects that will make the adoption of zero-emission vehicles easier for Canadians in the transition to a low-carbon future. Investments in sustainable transportation are critical to building healthy, sustainable communities where we can all thrive.”

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19 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

12 years from now is the latter part of calendar year 2034. Ford's own plan is 100% ZEV (which means BEV for non-commercial vehicles) by 2035 in all major markets including U.S. and Canada. In the U.S. market specifically, the "BEV for 45% of new car sales" milestone should be reached well before 2030 at the current rate of growth (which is likely to accelerate in the next few years).

 

Explorer BEV + Aviator BEV by themselves should be plenty to keep OAC at high utilization once start of production takes place. Those 2 vehicles represent the heart of the BEV crossover market.

 

Ford has had a lot of plans over the years as have other automakers, that doesn't mean it is going to happen just because it is their plan.  To assume that the current rate of growth will accelerate over the next few years is probably a good guess, maybe, but after that you can not make that assumption.  Right now they are getting all of the people that are fans of electric cars, but after that you have to get the haters and the apathetic.  As long as the obsticles I mentioned earlier are met the apathetic will be easier, but what if the issues (some or all) still exist?  I could not tell you how many people fall into the thre categories and that will have an impact on reaching that 45% as well.  Again I will believe it when I see it.  I have seen a lot of predictions about the future all of my life and one thing is for sure, most of them are incorrect one way or another.  Of course that could also mean we hit 45% in 8 years,but I doubt it.  Let us not also forget about the supply chain issues that persist and what the long term holds there.

 

Also to assume we will eventually in any time frame be 100% electric and there will be no competing technology is to ignore the way the world works for the most part.

 

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42 minutes ago, tzach said:

 

Also to assume we will eventually in any time frame be 100% electric and there will be no competing technology is to ignore the way the world works for the most part.

 


The point is that it has taken 100—120 years for petroleum powered vehicles to get to the point they are at and there really isn’t any viable alternatives to electric based vehicles until nuclear fusion has been perfected to create hydrogen powered vehicles-which has been constantly been promoted as happening at ten years out for the past 30 years. 
 

The EU and China are looking at an ICE ban in about 12 years or less. That will drive the market for the world. I’m sure the US will have some

sort of soft ban in the form of CAFE requirements that can only be met with BEVs in the near future. 
 

all I hear is shouting at the clouds because someone doesn’t like change and thinks everything is fixed as it is now without any improvements-but I’m also not expecting this whole thing to go completely smoothly either. 
 

Its sort of like clean air act and CAFE in the 1970s, just without the internet for people to bitch about it. 

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1 hour ago, tzach said:

Let us not also forget about the supply chain issues that persist and what the long term holds there.

 

Good point tzach, this is the biggest constraint on achieving the BEV adoption goals that automakers and governments alike have in mind. Ford's CFO John Lawler is cautiously optimistic that the supply chain issues will be resolved long term. Plus there are Ford's ongoing vertical integration efforts for BEV including the revamp of OAC. Ford And GM Will Clear Chip Shortage Backlogs By End Of Year | CarBuzz

 

Quote

It's not easing tremendously; it's easing slightly. But then we're seeing issues in non-chip suppliers. It has to do with the tight labor market, but... we're finding with many of the suppliers during the COVID time frame had not invested in maintenance or in their facilities and tooling, and so they're not able to ramp as we expected.

Edited by rperez817
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1 hour ago, tzach said:

 

Ford has had a lot of plans over the years as have other automakers, that doesn't mean it is going to happen just because it is their plan.  To assume that the current rate of growth will accelerate over the next few years is probably a good guess, maybe, but after that you can not make that assumption.  Right now they are getting all of the people that are fans of electric cars, but after that you have to get the haters and the apathetic.  As long as the obsticles I mentioned earlier are met the apathetic will be easier, but what if the issues (some or all) still exist?  I could not tell you how many people fall into the thre categories and that will have an impact on reaching that 45% as well.  Again I will believe it when I see it.  I have seen a lot of predictions about the future all of my life and one thing is for sure, most of them are incorrect one way or another.  Of course that could also mean we hit 45% in 8 years,but I doubt it.  Let us not also forget about the supply chain issues that persist and what the long term holds there.

 

Also to assume we will eventually in any time frame be 100% electric and there will be no competing technology is to ignore the way the world works for the most part.

 

Management in the American auto industry has had a history of being myopic- laser focused on one way and only one way to meet the needs of the market and government regs.  In many instances they were wrong and were forced to revise their plans at the cost of billions of dollars.  

 

Also there is the political angle.  Many are seeing the costs of the New Green Deal- skyrocketing fuel prices, fuel shortages, inflation, etc.  The public will definitely take it out on those who are forcing these mandates. 

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3 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

What is the point of even that-Ford isn’t investing money into ICE because it’s a technological “dead end”. 
 

There will be more improvements in range and recharging in the next 10-15 years that will make whatever issues people are complaining about or expecting a BEV to operate just like a gas powered car that will be eliminated by those improvements. 

 

Reminds me of all the predictions 30 years ago about how mobile phones was hopeless because 25% of the calls are dropped while you hardly ever get disconnected on a landline.

 

Turns out people don't really want to use mobile phones to call other people. The benefit of mobile phones were not clear to people that failed to understand the paradigm shift in how we use that technology. The same is happening now with EV. The people complaining about range or time to charge because they are locked in on the mindset of how they use ICE. These are the same types that were hot and bothered by the inferior call quality of early mobile phone, never imagining that they actually will almost never make a voice call on the so call "phone". And plus the dropped calls became less of a problem once the network became more robust and local WiFi became ubiquitous and calling via VoIP apps became the norm.

Edited by bzcat
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27 minutes ago, bzcat said:

 

Reminds me of all the predictions 30 years ago about how mobile phones was hopeless because 25% of the calls are dropped while you hardly ever get disconnected on a landline.

 

Turns out people don't really want to use mobile phones to call other people. The benefit of mobile phones were not clear to people that failed to understand the paradigm shift in how we use that technology. The same is happening now with EV. The people complaining about range or time to charge because they are locked in on the mindset of how they use ICE. These are the same types that were hot and bothered by the inferior call quality of early mobile phone, never imagining that they actually will almost never make a voice call on the so call "phone".


People will love their BEVs when they don’t have to worry about power outages ever again, which is a perfect example of what your saying. 

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34 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

Also there is the political angle.  Many are seeing the costs of the New Green Deal- skyrocketing fuel prices, fuel shortages, inflation, etc.  The public will definitely take it out on those who are forcing these mandates. 


Here is the problem-your being so myopic that you don’t see this is a world wide issue and not a

US government problem. Other countries are running into the same issues as we are with inflation and going with the other “team” isn’t going to fix this like flipping a light switch. They in all likelihood wont change anything-they said they would get rid of mandatory healthcare and that hasn’t happened for the most part and they’ll have pushback from auto manufacturers who are already investing $$$ into future product that won’t see the light of day until 2028-two election cycles away. 
 

You might see cheaper gas short term but it’s not gonna go down to $2 a gallon nor will it stay there. 

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1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:


Here is the problem-your being so myopic that you don’t see this is a world wide issue and not a

US government problem. Other countries are running into the same issues as we are with inflation and going with the other “team” isn’t going to fix this like flipping a light switch. They in all likelihood wont change anything-they said they would get rid of mandatory healthcare and that hasn’t happened for the most part and they’ll have pushback from auto manufacturers who are already investing $$$ into future product that won’t see the light of day until 2028-two election cycles away. 
 

You might see cheaper gas short term but it’s not gonna go down to $2 a gallon nor will it stay there. 

I was discussing pols being hammered all over the world as we are seeing now in Europe (Italy).  

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America is not Europe.

The irony here is that people don’t see why a change to electric will make sense, it won’t be because of legislation, it will come because the oil companies will continue to increase the price of gasoline and diesel to maintain existing revenue and profit on what will become smaller sales.
 

That’s how it happens, no need to convince those with ICE, the price of gas and diesel will eventually become too much for them……and that’s how transition to a new era should go anyway, people making their own choices.

Edited by jpd80
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4 hours ago, Footballfan said:

I was discussing pols being hammered all over the world as we are seeing now in Europe (Italy).  

But the US isn’t Italy and Italy isn’t the US. 

 

Im not a fan of what is going on our country either but voting republican isn’t going to make everything better overnight and I’m willing to bet that they don’t change much when they do have power. 

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On 11/1/2022 at 2:24 PM, Footballfan said:

Ford will be asking for a lot of labor trouble if they start closing legacy plants and moving production to a new plant in a right-to-work state that is not guaranteed to recognize the UAW.  

 

As for EVs I'm still a skeptic.  Will they get a solid 25-30 percent of the market within the next 10 years?  Sure.  But I don't think we will see 100 EV adoption for several decades if ever.  I think BOC will end up something like the Saturn plant in nearby Spring Hill.  A lot of expectations but the end result will be something less than promised. 

We can be as skeptical as we want we are being force fed electrics and governments are mandating it and spending multi billions of dollars it seems as though this will be the new reality going forward. 

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1 hour ago, Oacjay98 said:

We can be as skeptical as we want we are being force fed electrics and governments are mandating it and spending multi billions of dollars it seems as though this will be the new reality going forward. 

As we have seen in the past, mandates can be made and mandates can be broken.  As we have also seen in the past, government nor companies can shove down the throats of customers things they do not want.  

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12 hours ago, akirby said:

Since that’s the only thing most voters will read it should explain the why and the potential benefits.

Absolutely not! It’s up to the voters to educate themselves before the election regarding candidates and referendums. The election process is supposed to be fair and impartial. Would you be OK with one of the candidates on the ballot having an endorsement next to his/her name?

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1 hour ago, Footballfan said:

government nor companies can shove down the throats of customers things they do not want.  

 

In the case of BEV, governments, automakers, and customers are all on the same page. Automakers understand that their future existence is contingent upon all electric vehicles as one component, hence Ford's investment to transition OAC from ICE vehicle to BEV production by 2024 or earlier for example. 

 

Governments have established initiatives to encourage their adoption, for example ZEV mandates and BEV charging infrastructure funding.

 

As for customers, Motor Trend summed it up best (at least for U.S. customers).

Quote

At this point, Americans aren't waiting for EV technology to mature or the price to come down. They're simply waiting for the EVs they want to be built.

Edited by rperez817
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