Ford 2022 End of Year Sales Totals

[jpd80]

All I’m trying to say is the referencing of inventory as some sort of guide back to normal vehicle levels is rather misleading, you simply can’t go into a Ford dealership and negotiate large incentives like in pre 2020 times.

 

So while inventory is improving, a lot of those vehicles are already sold, either awaiting completion or in holding yards ready for transport.

 

In a few short years, Ford has gone from building vehicles to dealer stock inventory profiles to mostly ordered customer vehicles, this is exactly what Ford want even if total builds are still a bit too tight to maximise return on expenditure.Amusing how rising quality issues and costs look to have replaced dealer incentives as the new profit bleed……

 

One of the biggest issues with front line management these days in production companies is the cavalier attitude by mid and upper management that production line managers are now treated like plug and play widgets that carry out every hair brained idea from above, when challenged by experienced line team leaders, they don’t want to be called on their BS. Such dysfunctional workplace is not conducive to efficiency and harmonious synergy. That’s the kind of stuff that Model E needs to leave behind.

Edited January 18, 2023 by jpd80

[LSchicago]

Does anyone know why The Maverick Hybrid model is so constrained? Which parts are unattainable for Ford? They could easily sell 200,000 more Hybrids if they could build them per year. I placed an order for one on the 3rd day the order banks were open, and have less than 50% chance of it getting built. Ford is now shipping them to Brazil too. 

[j2sys]

1 hour ago, LSchicago said:

Does anyone know why The Maverick Hybrid model is so constrained? Which parts are unattainable for Ford? They could easily sell 200,000 more Hybrids if they could build them per year. I placed an order for one on the 3rd day the order banks were open, and have less than 50% chance of it getting built. Ford is now shipping them to Brazil too. 

 

Because hybrids are low-volume compliance products.  Nobody has ever queued up waiting for Ford's hybrids like y'all are doing with Maverick.  Overall production of them is minuscule relative to other powertrains.  It's simply not profitable for them.  They sell them because they boost CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) ratings, so they can sell more profitable large SUVs and trucks without paying penalties for doing so.

 

Ford sees EVs as the future.  Hybrids, not so much, not even really for the short-term future, at least in the US anyway.  So, when they set out to launch Maverick, they did the math to determine how many hybrids they could currently build and how many they needed to build in order to meet their targets.  23MY, much like 22MY, has them right about a 1:2 ratio of Hybrid to EcoBoost, by design.

 

They don't see the ROI on increasing production to decrease unit costs as that production capacity would only be used for a short period of time.  If they could sell the 200,000 additional units annually that you claim, then they would do so because at that rate it would likely be profitable.  But there isn't actually that much demand, especially long-term.

 

Long story short: they'd rather you switch to the 2.0L EcoBoost.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Wow you’re on planet BS with that post

 

 

[LSchicago]

1 hour ago, j2sys said:

 

Because hybrids are low-volume compliance products.  Nobody has ever queued up waiting for Ford's hybrids like y'all are doing with Maverick.  Overall production of them is minuscule relative to other powertrains.  It's simply not profitable for them.  They sell them because they boost CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) ratings, so they can sell more profitable large SUVs and trucks without paying penalties for doing so.

 

Ford sees EVs as the future.  Hybrids, not so much, not even really for the short-term future, at least in the US anyway.  So, when they set out to launch Maverick, they did the math to determine how many hybrids they could currently build and how many they needed to build in order to meet their targets.  23MY, much like 22MY, has them right about a 1:2 ratio of Hybrid to EcoBoost, by design.

 

They don't see the ROI on increasing production to decrease unit costs as that production capacity would only be used for a short period of time.  If they could sell the 200,000 additional units annually that you claim, then they would do so because at that rate it would likely be profitable.  But there isn't actually that much demand, especially long-term.

 

Long story short: they'd rather you switch to the 2.0L EcoBoost.

Honestly, if I had a choice of 2.0 EB or no Maverick, I'd tell them to refund my deposit. I'll pass on the full EV right now too. It's only a hybrid that makes sense for my needs. If Ford doesn't build my order, I will order something else fitting from another company next year. There is nothing else I want at Ford right now. I will keep my other 2 Fords. Ford is usually good at supplying what I want, but I feel they screwed up big time with this. I have bought over $450,000 in new Fords since 2020. And that's not including my wifes cars.  

[akirby]

Escape hybrids have been capacity constrained since the new model launched.  So it’s not just Maverick.  I don’t agree that Ford doesn’t want to sell more hybrids, I just don’t think they can get the batteries and other parts AND do all the other things they want to do AND make money.

[j2sys]

55 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Wow you’re on planet BS with that post

 

 

 

Yikes.  Pretty harsh response for an honest assessment, IMHO, especially with no explanation.

[Rangers09]

2 hours ago, j2sys said:

 

Because hybrids are low-volume compliance products.  Nobody has ever queued up waiting for Ford's hybrids like y'all are doing with Maverick.  Overall production of them is minuscule relative to other powertrains.  It's simply not profitable for them.  They sell them because they boost CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) ratings, so they can sell more profitable large SUVs and trucks without paying penalties for doing so.

 

Ford sees EVs as the future.  Hybrids, not so much, not even really for the short-term future, at least in the US anyway.  So, when they set out to launch Maverick, they did the math to determine how many hybrids they could currently build and how many they needed to build in order to meet their targets.  23MY, much like 22MY, has them right about a 1:2 ratio of Hybrid to EcoBoost, by design.

 

They don't see the ROI on increasing production to decrease unit costs as that production capacity would only be used for a short period of time.  If they could sell the 200,000 additional units annually that you claim, then they would do so because at that rate it would likely be profitable.  But there isn't actually that much demand, especially long-term.

 

Long story short: they'd rather you switch to the 2.0L EcoBoost.

 

If there is no/minimal demand for hybrids, how come it has been reported Ford sold the total number of PHEV Escapes they can probably build during the entire model year, in the first month of the order bank opening.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, j2sys said:

 

Yikes.  Pretty harsh response for an honest assessment, IMHO, especially with no explanation.

Saying there is no demand is BS.

[Trader 10]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

All I’m trying to say is the referencing of inventory as some sort of guide back to normal vehicle levels is rather misleading, you simply can’t go into a Ford dealership and negotiate large incentives like in pre 2020 times.

 

So while inventory is improving, a lot of those vehicles are already sold, either awaiting completion or in holding yards ready for transport.

 

In a few short years, Ford has gone from building vehicles to dealer stock inventory profiles to mostly ordered customer vehicles, this is exactly what Ford want even if total builds are still a bit too tight to maximise return on expenditure.Amusing how rising quality issues and costs look to have replaced dealer incentives as the new profit bleed……

 

One of the biggest issues with front line management these days in production companies is the cavalier attitude by mid and upper management that production line managers are now treated like plug and play widgets that carry out every hair brained idea from above, when challenged by experienced line team leaders, they don’t want to be called on their BS. Such dysfunctional workplace is not conducive to efficiency and harmonious synergy. That’s the kind of stuff that Model E needs to leave behind.

 

[fuzzymoomoo]

30 minutes ago, akirby said:

Saying there is no demand is BS.

saying no demand is BS. 
saying it’s not profitable is BS

Saying they’re compliance products is BS

 

i could go on 

[Trader 10]

31 minutes ago, Trader 10 said:

 

I don’t think the increase in inventory can be attributed to sold vehicles in transit or arrived and not yet picked up by the buyer. If that was so, we’d see a large increase in Ford’s sales which isn’t occurring. Ford would like everyone to believe that nearly all sales are preordered but I think that is quickly becoming less so. I know my local dealer group’s website is showing 76 new Fords in their inventory. It only had 20 to 25 new vehicles listed during most of last year.  

[fuzzymoomoo]

50 minutes ago, Trader 10 said:

I don’t think the increase in inventory can be attributed to sold vehicles in transit or arrived and not yet picked up by the buyer. If that was so, we’d see a large increase in Ford’s sales which isn’t occurring. Ford would like everyone to believe that nearly all sales are preordered but I think that is quickly becoming less so. I know my local dealer group’s website is showing 76 new Fords in their inventory. It only had 20 to 25 new vehicles listed during most of last year.  

The lot at my dealer is more full than it has been at any point in the last 18 months, same with the one around the corner from me and the third one a few miles away. Mine shockingly even has a Bronco Raptor on the lot and even more shockingly they’re only asking sticker price for it. 

[SoonerLS]

4 hours ago, j2sys said:

 

Because hybrids are low-volume compliance products.  Nobody has ever queued up waiting for Ford's hybrids like y'all are doing with Maverick.  Overall production of them is minuscule relative to other powertrains.  It's simply not profitable for them.  They sell them because they boost CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) ratings, so they can sell more profitable large SUVs and trucks without paying penalties for doing so.

 

Ford sees EVs as the future.  Hybrids, not so much, not even really for the short-term future, at least in the US anyway.  So, when they set out to launch Maverick, they did the math to determine how many hybrids they could currently build and how many they needed to build in order to meet their targets.  23MY, much like 22MY, has them right about a 1:2 ratio of Hybrid to EcoBoost, by design.

 

They don't see the ROI on increasing production to decrease unit costs as that production capacity would only be used for a short period of time.  If they could sell the 200,000 additional units annually that you claim, then they would do so because at that rate it would likely be profitable.  But there isn't actually that much demand, especially long-term.

 

Long story short: they'd rather you switch to the 2.0L EcoBoost.

The problem with this whole line of reasoning is that they launched the Maverick with the hybrid as the standard powertrain. That means they were expecting the hybrid to be a decent seller, if not the big seller in that model, in a product that they were expecting to sell well. The whole raison d'etre for the Maverick is to fill in the bottom end of Ford's lineup, so saddling its volume model with a powertrain that they don't want to sell just doesn't make any sense.

[jpd80]

3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Wow you’re on planet BS with that post

 

 

To say that Ford were shocked by strong response to Maverick would be an understatement and probably why getting a hybrid is so difficult- batteries being diverted to Escape hybrids is the likely scenario. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is a common story at Ford these days……

[silvrsvt]

Not sure what industries you guys are working in but the supply chain isn't in much better shape then it was 18 months ago. Just as an example, a project I'm working on is having issues with sourcing a particular screw we need. Master-Carr finally said to us, oh its finally back in production due to rise in demand for it, we shut down production of it during COVID (I'm assuming) and are just now starting production of it. 

 

It just seems like that since March 2020, companies/people don't give a shit any more about supporting the businesses they sell to or don't feel any urgency to do anything about it. Plus factor in the pivot of production of chips over the next few years to the US and the US cutting off China as much as possible, I don't see certain things getting better for another 3-5 years. The supply chain as we know it was shattered by COVID and I don't think we are going to return to a world exactly like it was prior to that...there is going to be shortages for a long period of time. Not sure how the current/coming recession will play into this either..it might actual hurt things even more because of the lack of demand. 

[GearheadGrrrl]

Used to be that Ford's hybrids were slow sellers, the market has changed and now hybrids sell fastest in many models like Escape. In the Maverick the problem is compounded by the hybrid being the lowest priced offering...

[rperez817]

3 hours ago, Trader 10 said:

Ford would like everyone to believe that nearly all sales are preordered but I think that is quickly becoming less so. I know my local dealer group’s website is showing 76 new Fords in their inventory. It only had 20 to 25 new vehicles listed during most of last year.  

 

Uh oh. Maybe concern about Ford maintaining the discipline to achieve Jim Farley's goals of no more than 50-60 days new vehicle inventory, emphasis on retail sales orders, and minimal sales incentives is warranted after all?

[rperez817]

Found this tidbit in a video about the Cox Automotive data Trader 10 shared earlier in this thread. Ford had 2 products with the highest days inventory numbers (F-150 and Explorer). F-150 also had among the most discounting of any car or light truck model, averaging about $2,400 below MSRP.

 

This does not include F-150 Lightning, which is characterized by extremely high demand, relatively puny supply, and selling prices above MSRP.

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by rperez817

[fuzzymoomoo]

7 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Not sure what industries you guys are working in but the supply chain isn't in much better shape then it was 18 months ago. Just as an example, a project I'm working on is having issues with sourcing a particular screw we need. Master-Carr finally said to us, oh its finally back in production due to rise in demand for it, we shut down production of it during COVID (I'm assuming) and are just now starting production of it. 

 

It just seems like that since March 2020, companies/people don't give a shit any more about supporting the businesses they sell to or don't feel any urgency to do anything about it. Plus factor in the pivot of production of chips over the next few years to the US and the US cutting off China as much as possible, I don't see certain things getting better for another 3-5 years. The supply chain as we know it was shattered by COVID and I don't think we are going to return to a world exactly like it was prior to that...there is going to be shortages for a long period of time. Not sure how the current/coming recession will play into this either..it might actual hurt things even more because of the lack of demand. 

Combine that with abysmal employee retention and yeah, it ain’t getting any better any time soon. 

[rmc523]

21 hours ago, LSchicago said:

Honestly, if I had a choice of 2.0 EB or no Maverick, I'd tell them to refund my deposit. I'll pass on the full EV right now too. It's only a hybrid that makes sense for my needs. If Ford doesn't build my order, I will order something else fitting from another company next year. There is nothing else I want at Ford right now. I will keep my other 2 Fords. Ford is usually good at supplying what I want, but I feel they screwed up big time with this. I have bought over $450,000 in new Fords since 2020. And that's not including my wifes cars.  

 

may I ask - I assume you want a truck no?   So what other product are you looking at if you’re dead-set on a hybrid?

 

20 hours ago, akirby said:

Escape hybrids have been capacity constrained since the new model launched.  So it’s not just Maverick.  I don’t agree that Ford doesn’t want to sell more hybrids, I just don’t think they can get the batteries and other parts AND do all the other things they want to do AND make money.

 

it has seemed like Ford hybrids have been capacity constrained since they came out.  I feel like we’ve always read about volume limitations on the hybrids long before covid.
 

16 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Not sure what industries you guys are working in but the supply chain isn't in much better shape then it was 18 months ago. Just as an example, a project I'm working on is having issues with sourcing a particular screw we need. Master-Carr finally said to us, oh its finally back in production due to rise in demand for it, we shut down production of it during COVID (I'm assuming) and are just now starting production of it. 

 

It just seems like that since March 2020, companies/people don't give a shit any more about supporting the businesses they sell to or don't feel any urgency to do anything about it. Plus factor in the pivot of production of chips over the next few years to the US and the US cutting off China as much as possible, I don't see certain things getting better for another 3-5 years. The supply chain as we know it was shattered by COVID and I don't think we are going to return to a world exactly like it was prior to that...there is going to be shortages for a long period of time. Not sure how the current/coming recession will play into this either..it might actual hurt things even more because of the lack of demand. 

 

fire sprinklers here and we’re constantly hit with various shortages.   One week sprinkler heads are backordered and pipe is in stock, the next week it’s the opposite. It’s crazy.

[akirby]

32 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

may I ask - I assume you want a truck no?   So what other product are you looking at if you’re dead-set on a hybrid?

 

 

it has seemed like Ford hybrids have been capacity constrained since they came out.  I feel like we’ve always read about volume limitations on the hybrids long before covid.
 

 

fire sprinklers here and we’re constantly hit with various shortages.   One week sprinkler heads are backordered and pipe is in stock, the next week it’s the opposite. It’s crazy.

Last year we had $100K devices held up by a $10 part.  

[LSchicago]

2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

may I ask - I assume you want a truck no?   So what other product are you looking at if you’re dead-set on a hybrid?

 

 

 

 

 

Maverick is my first choice, but I don't need a truck. I have a E150 Van which I use for my hauling and simple camping needs. It's not very efficient on longer trips though (or around town). I could also buy a Toyota Sienna Hybrid van, Which would be a compromise, but could do the hauling and camping needs (getting creative) while getting 36mpg combined. Maverick is 37 combined, so no real difference. I'd just be driving a foreign brand which I really don't want to do. The Maverick I ordered is just over $25k. I'd go with the go fast camper at $8,000 for $33K total. Sienna starts at $35K with no camper needed, so not much more. Both would get about the same mpg. Ford doesn't offer the Transit connect as a hybrid, so that's out. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by LSchicago

[jpd80]

Maverick is that disruptive alternative in compact segment dominated by a sea of compact utilities, it breaks up the sameness which is why so many jumped on it. 
 

Once again Ford didn’t count on the success of hybrids and just ordered the minimum and now can’t increase unti it builds the JV plants.

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Maverick is that disruptive alternative in compact segment dominated by a sea of compact utilities, it breaks up the sameness which is why so many jumped on it. 
 

Once again Ford didn’t count on the success of hybrids and just ordered the minimum and now can’t increase unti it builds the JV plants.

Well the other thing too is it was a calculated risk launching it before they knew they could 100 percent meet demand. The Maverick is such a breath of fresh air and a disruptor in the segment that waiting any longer risks the competition getting the jump and losing out on all the buzz. Hyundai tried with the Santa Cruz. Where they ultimately win is it’s gotten such strong positive feedback people are willing to wait for it, much like Bronco. Yes some people are going to lose patience and potentially go buy something else,  that’s clearly a risk they deemed they were willing to take. Even if they lose 10 percent of potential buyers they still have more than enough orders to keep the factory going for years. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by fuzzymoomoo