tbone Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 7 hours ago, DeluxeStang said: The issue is car companies can't win. If they make a EV too radical, it divides people and they oppose it. If they make it too similar, then people talk about how they didn't take things far enough. The smart approach, imo, is to release a more traditional truck to appeal to some consumers, and a more radical truck to push the limits of design and tech. It seems like that's what ford is planning to do. Kinda like how the genius of the escape/bronco sport was appealing to radically different buyers within the same segment by offering multiple types of vehicles. I don’t think we are as far apart on the best approach as you had originally thought. Ultimately they cant ignore the desires of the traditional truck buyer if they hope for mass adoption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNSLS Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Let's take two uses that trucks are used for and take them out of the equation. Those are for towing and for work. The rest are lifestyle. That's why you see these new EV trucks being designed the way they are. If they solve the range and recharging issues- then that RAM as a lifestyle vehicle hits the mark. Ford played it safe and made their EV truck look like a regular truck- the issue being is that it can't be used like a truck as towing leaves an abysmal range. And a work truck- that's a small niche with the EV limitations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 14 hours ago, tbone said: I don’t think we are as far apart on the best approach as you had originally thought. Ultimately they cant ignore the desires of the traditional truck buyer if they hope for mass adoption. Exactly, basically what I'm saying is they have to try appealing to traditional buyers and buyers new to the segment. I personally feel the best way to do that is to offer two radically different products. A world where ford offers a traditional looking ev truck, and one that's closer to things like the Hummer, ram, Silverado etc. I think there's a market for both types of trucks. It's just a matter of limiting cross model sales cannibalization which would be my biggest concern if I was Ford's CEO and wanted to do lots of truck models. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 36 minutes ago, CKNSLS said: Ford played it safe and made their EV truck look like a regular truck- the issue being is that it can't be used like a truck as towing leaves an abysmal range. And a work truck- that's a small niche with the EV limitations. It still works at towing if it’s all local - e.g. taking your boat to/from the lake 20 miles away. Pulling a trailer with a backhoe to local jobs. Towing doesn’t necessarily mean heavy loads for 300+ miles. Ford found that most Transit buyers drive less then. 70 miles per day. Why do you think every work scenario requires towing a heavy load more than 100 miles or lightly loaded/empty more than 250 miles per day? That’s a subset of use cases. There are as many if not more use cases where it works fine even for heavy towing or long distances. And don’t forget most people doing heavy towing or long distances will get a superduty anyway. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 37 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said: Exactly, basically what I'm saying is they have to try appealing to traditional buyers and buyers new to the segment. I personally feel the best way to do that is to offer two radically different products. A world where ford offers a traditional looking ev truck, and one that's closer to things like the Hummer, ram, Silverado etc. I think there's a market for both types of trucks. It's just a matter of limiting cross model sales cannibalization which would be my biggest concern if I was Ford's CEO and wanted to do lots of truck models. I agree there is a market for both types but the question is whether it’s worth the investment to go after both as opposed to just one? Especially if you’re battery constrained? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 9 hours ago, akirby said: I agree there is a market for both types but the question is whether it’s worth the investment to go after both as opposed to just one? Especially if you’re battery constrained? It certainly is a consideration when engineering and capacity are constrained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 9 hours ago, akirby said: I agree there is a market for both types but the question is whether it’s worth the investment to go after both as opposed to just one? Especially if you’re battery constrained? Good points as well. It's no secret that supply chains have been a massive problem for years. The last thing you want is commit all these resources to engineering multiple trucks and not have the parts for them. Perhaps there could be a future where ford is working with multiple battery suppliers, in fact I believe they already are. Where they get lithium ion batteries from one supplier, and more advanced solid state from another. I could see lithium being used in more conventional vehicles, as the tech is already proven out. Whereas solid state could be better suited for a more performance oriented halo truck as the tech is more advanced, but will almost certainly be more expensive. At least initially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 The argument that you need something radical to bring in new buyers sounds good until you realize that Lightning already did that. And look how much they saved on design and body stamping. I think in the end people will buy what they buy today just with a different powertrain (with a few differences like frunks, etc). I think radical designs will be short term fads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 11, 2023 Author Share Posted January 11, 2023 1 hour ago, akirby said: The argument that you need something radical to bring in new buyers sounds good until you realize that Lightning already did that. Motor Trend said that F-150 Lightning "successfully bridges the gulf between the powertrain of the future and the pickup of today in a way no other EV truck on the market has accomplished". That's huge, and why F-150 Lightning is one of the most important vehicles in the history of the automotive industry (not to mention Motor Trend's 2023 Truck of the Year). However, as BEV optimized pickup trucks like Ram EV (Revolution), Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra EV, and Tesla Cybertruck come to market in the next few years, Ford will need to ensure that its design and engineering approach for BEV pickup trucks evolves to remain competitive. 2nd generation F-150 Lightning, along with BEV versions of Maverick, Ranger, and Super Duty will hopefully do just that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 1 hour ago, rperez817 said: However, as BEV optimized pickup trucks like Ram EV (Revolution), Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra EV, and Tesla Cybertruck come to market in the next few years, Ford will need to ensure that its design and engineering approach for BEV pickup trucks evolves to remain competitive. 2nd generation F-150 Lightning, along with BEV versions of Maverick, Ranger, and Super Duty will hopefully do just that. There is nothing BEV optimized about those designs except maybe the lower CoD. Nothing to do with mid gates and interiors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 I have access to thousands of accessories for my Lightning. How many aftermarket manufacturers are going to step up for limited production RAM and Silverado BEV accessories, and how fast? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 11, 2023 Author Share Posted January 11, 2023 1 hour ago, akirby said: There is nothing BEV optimized about those designs except maybe the lower CoD. Ram Revolution, Chevrolet Silverado/Sierra EV, and Tesla Cybertruck are all designed from the ground up as BEV and are not based on any existing ICE powered pickup trucks. By definition, that makes them BEV optimized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 2 hours ago, rperez817 said: Ram Revolution, Chevrolet Silverado/Sierra EV, and Tesla Cybertruck are all designed from the ground up as BEV and are not based on any existing ICE powered pickup trucks. By definition, that makes them BEV optimized. I clearly said designs which doesn’t include the platform underneath. The funky looks and the mid gate and the interior have nothing whatsoever to do with them being a BEV with the possible exception of the exterior having less drag. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisgb Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 Wasn't the Avalanche derived from the Suburban? Lighter built throughout, the reason for the buttress was to keep it from sway backing IIRC. If the Revolution is to be intended for vocational buyers, It will need a higher roofline to accommodate 6'2"+ drivers and passengers who will be wearing hard hats. You're not going to put your hard hat on the floor, especially if it's wet or muddy when there are four or more of you in the cab. I wonder if the production version will be called the Dakota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying68 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 3 hours ago, rperez817 said: Ram Revolution, Chevrolet Silverado/Sierra EV, and Tesla Cybertruck are all designed from the ground up as BEV and are not based on any existing ICE powered pickup trucks. By definition, that makes them BEV optimized. For sedans and CUV / SUV I can see it making a significant difference. With a pickup, I don't think there is all that much to be gained or lost, it is just packaging. The optimization would be in the manufacturing cost, not necessarily the function or capability. As a traditional truck has a ladder frame, the battery pack placement is dictated by fitting within the existing frame rails. An optimized design would push out the frame rails wider in the center and use the battery pack structure to provide the torsional stiffness, leading to a bit less weight, however the function of the pickup is not going to be altered that much. I would venture to say that the TE1 platform based Lighting will still look like an F-150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 One of the things I can't see making it into production is the jump seat feature. EV acceleration is so fast, a passenger's head would snap sideways or hit the glass in back. The seats are going to need to face forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 Latest updates for Ram BEV pickup truck. Name of production truck is Ram REV Production start will be in 2024 More info to come on 2/12/2023 Stellantis Media - Ram Brand Confirms Name of First Electric Pickup: Ram 1500 REV (stellantisnorthamerica.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 https://www.motor1.com/news/652097/2025-ram-1500-rev-debut-super-bowl-commercial/ In my opinion this looks much better then the concept. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 45 minutes ago, T-dubz said: https://www.motor1.com/news/652097/2025-ram-1500-rev-debut-super-bowl-commercial/ In my opinion this looks much better then the concept. Most disappointing EV yet. The concept is gorgeous, that's extremely generic looking. Looks like Ford won't have to worry about Ram anytime soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Agreed. I liked the concept, this is pretty tame (boring). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) This looks basically like the current Ram. Not that this looks bad, but I’m not sure why you show a concept and then bring this out. Edited February 12, 2023 by tbone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 44 minutes ago, tbone said: This looks basically like the current Ram. Not that this looks bad, but I’m not sure why you show a concept and then bring this out. Exactly, they didn't even try to incorporate most of the design cues from the concept. Basically just the headlights and taillights. Why on earth would you create a stunning concept a mere month or so before showing the massively watered down concept? Furthermore, why would you insinuate that the production version would be quite somewhat similar to the concept? Lastly, the decision to hype up Ram's EV by saying it was late to the party, but would make up for it by being radically different in design, tech, and features is insane. Especially if that entire time, they knew none of that was going to carry over. If you knew the production truck was going to be similar to the gas version, why wouldn't you market it like the lightning? Something that was more traditional, yet capable. Why hype it up as bold and radically different when you knew the entire time it wasn't going to be either of those things? So many questions and head scratching decisions made about this product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 5 hours ago, DeluxeStang said: Exactly, they didn't even try to incorporate most of the design cues from the concept. Basically just the headlights and taillights. Why on earth would you create a stunning concept a mere month or so before showing the massively watered down concept? Furthermore, why would you insinuate that the production version would be quite somewhat similar to the concept? Lastly, the decision to hype up Ram's EV by saying it was late to the party, but would make up for it by being radically different in design, tech, and features is insane. Especially if that entire time, they knew none of that was going to carry over. If you knew the production truck was going to be similar to the gas version, why wouldn't you market it like the lightning? Something that was more traditional, yet capable. Why hype it up as bold and radically different when you knew the entire time it wasn't going to be either of those things? So many questions and head scratching decisions made about this product. The concept wasn’t radical enough to alienate existing customers and it was interesting enough to draw the attention of those looking at other brands, but they ended up being pretty conservative. I concur it was a lot of bluster over nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 As much as this pains me to say this, the Silverado BEV looks better than this. I wonder what Ford's pure BEV F-150 will look like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 The commercial was hilarious. I like this version way more than the concept, but then again I like the Lightning too. Not a fan of being different just to be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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