2024 US Ranger Without Camo Spotted

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Everyone is still having issues...I think some people are just using it as an excuse. Maybe it will get better, maybe it won't. I think the issue now is just workers-all the baby boomers have retired and gen X and Z aren't as big, even combined. Going to be interesting how that plays out. 

When it comes to workers it’s a bigger issue than it ever has been in my 10 years working for this company. It used to be when I started you would have around 75 new hires and maybe 15-20 wouldn’t last their first week (line work is way harder than anyone realizes until you actually do it for a day). These days they can bring in 50 and it’s a miracle if 10 or more survive. The biggest problem, and I 100% expect this to change with the new contract, is starting pay. Why would anyone put up with the physical demands of assembly line work and all the BS that comes with the job when you can literally go work at Wendy’s for almost the same pay? 

[silvrsvt]

4 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 Why would anyone put up with the physical demands of assembly line work and all the BS that comes with the job when you can literally go work at Wendy’s for almost the same pay? 

 

The thing is that is like that everywhere...there is next to no work ethic and as much as I hate to say it, rising pays for entry level jobs just makes things worse for everyone at the low end of the spectrum. Why should someone go to a community college to be an EMT or something, if they are going to get paid the same working at fast food joint? All your doing is making people not look for a job because there is no incentive to "work hard".

The only argument I can come up with against Wendys (or places like that) is that you'll most likely won't have a fixed work schedule or hours that are close to 40 hours a week like you would working for Ford. 

 

The whole Labor system is fucked and needs a good reboot when it comes to labor laws and pay. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

The only argument I can come up with against Wendys (or places like that) is that you'll most likely won't have a fixed work schedule or hours that are close to 40 hours a week like you would working for Ford. 

I don’t even have a fixed 40 right now….

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

The whole Labor system is fucked and needs a good reboot when it comes to labor laws and pay. 

You’re not wrong, but then you’re talking about government intervention and that almost always makes the problem worse.

[silvrsvt]

10 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

You’re not wrong, but then you’re talking about government intervention and that almost always makes the problem worse.

damn if we do and damned if we don't...many of the jobs that where covered by labor laws almost 100 years ago when they where implemented, don't even exist anymore. 

[akirby]

But what’s the pay at 5 years?  10 years?  A whole lot better than Wendy’s.

 

What happened to starting low and working your way up?  Everybody wants max pay immediately with no experience.

[silvrsvt]

37 minutes ago, akirby said:

But what’s the pay at 5 years?  10 years?  A whole lot better than Wendy’s.

 

What happened to starting low and working your way up?  Everybody wants max pay immediately with no experience.

 

Well that is where that whole work ethic thing comes into play. If your just working the line at Wendys and not moving into a management role, I'm sure Fords pay is better long term. 

 

Its not just entry level "unskilled" labor-going by antidotal evidence with college students-many want to go into finance because they think its easier then a STEM program and they'll make a lot more $$$ doing that...

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

But what’s the pay at 5 years?  10 years?  A whole lot better than Wendy’s.

 

What happened to starting low and working your way up?  Everybody wants max pay immediately with no experience.

I’m sure this sounds like I’m making excuses for these people and I’m not trying to, this is just how it is. For the amount of BS we put up with from management and the physical pain we deal with, nobody in their right mind would put up with getting paid $16/hr even if the annual raises and benefits are what they are. We should start at no less than $20 and go up from there. 

[ice-capades]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

But what’s the pay at 5 years?  10 years?  A whole lot better than Wendy’s.

 

What happened to starting low and working your way up?  Everybody wants max pay immediately with no experience.

 

And as entry level pay for unskilled workers rises, the more companies are forced to look at new technology to increase productivity. In the end, the result is more automation, etc. resulting in less labor required and fewer jobs. The free market used to determine wages and benefits as a result of competition in the marketplace. 

[akirby]

2 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

And as entry level pay for unskilled workers rises, the more companies are forced to look at new technology to increase productivity. In the end, the result is more automation, etc. resulting in less labor required and fewer jobs. The free market used to determine wages and benefits as a result of competition in the marketplace. 

Bingo.  Every job has a market value.  Fast food cashiers are good at $12/hr but above that it gets easier and easier to replace them with apps and kiosks.

 

If you’re still working an entry level job after 2-3 years you’re doing something wrong.

[JX1]

They're saying May 10th for something related to dealer reveal?

[HotRunrGuy]

31 minutes ago, JX1 said:

They're saying May 10th for something related to dealer reveal?

you beat me to it,,,,,

 

HRG

[akirby]

The order bank doesn’t open until 5/26 so don’t expect the order guide or build and price until then (publicly).

[fuzzymoomoo]

11 hours ago, akirby said:

But what’s the pay at 5 years?  10 years?  A whole lot better than Wendy’s.

 

What happened to starting low and working your way up?  Everybody wants max pay immediately with no experience.

I’ve thought about this since you posted it last night and I came to this conclusion: we on the line are worth more than minimum wage, even as you’re just starting day 1 and with a lot of states raising their minimum wage to $15/hr that’s very close what we start at. I know the higher ups in the UAW leadership will likely disagree with this statement (you know, equal work for equal pay and whatever other buzzwords they want to use) but I have zero problem with someone starting below top pay and working their way up. Fair to me is in the $20-$22 range. 

[akirby]

48 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I’ve thought about this since you posted it last night and I came to this conclusion: we on the line are worth more than minimum wage, even as you’re just starting day 1 and with a lot of states raising their minimum wage to $15/hr that’s very close what we start at. I know the higher ups in the UAW leadership will likely disagree with this statement (you know, equal work for equal pay and whatever other buzzwords they want to use) but I have zero problem with someone starting below top pay and working their way up. Fair to me is in the $20-$22 range. 

I wasn’t suggesting minimum wage but $15 is not minimum wage in Detroit. Maybe it is worth more than that but you should start low and ramp up as you get experience.

[fuzzymoomoo]

35 minutes ago, akirby said:

I wasn’t suggesting minimum wage but $15 is not minimum wage in Detroit. Maybe it is worth more than that but you should start low and ramp up as you get experience.

It’s not just Michigan though. Chicago, for instance, has a minimum wage of $15.40 for businesses with more than 20 employees (https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/depts/bacp/supp_info/minimumwageinformation.html) which obviously Ford’s 2 plants there would be classified as. According to the 2019 UAW-Ford contract, the starting pay is $16.25. If Ford wants any hope in hell of retaining more new hires than what they currently can that number needs to me higher than .85 cents above minimum. Start it at $20-22 and increase it annually from there. 
 

For the record, top pay for the average line worker without classification is around $31. I can’t find the exact number. 
https://uaw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/NUMBERS-CORRECTED_FRI-11-1_11140-AM_Hourly-graphics.pdf

[akirby]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

It’s not just Michigan though. Chicago, for instance, has a minimum wage of $15.40 for businesses with more than 20 employees (https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/depts/bacp/supp_info/minimumwageinformation.html) which obviously Ford’s 2 plants there would be classified as. According to the 2019 UAW-Ford contract, the starting pay is $16.25. If Ford wants any hope in hell of retaining more new hires than what they currently can that number needs to me higher than .85 cents above minimum. Start it at $20-22 and increase it annually from there. 
 

For the record, top pay for the average line worker without classification is around $31. I can’t find the exact number. 
https://uaw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/NUMBERS-CORRECTED_FRI-11-1_11140-AM_Hourly-graphics.pdf

of course if the local market goes higher then Ford has to match that but ask Seattle how that $15 minimum wage.worked out.   Businesses just left.

[HotRunrGuy]

Is there any hope of getting this thread back on track about the 2024 Ranger?

 

HRG

[fuzzymoomoo]

7 hours ago, akirby said:

of course if the local market goes higher then Ford has to match that but ask Seattle how that $15 minimum wage.worked out.   Businesses just left.

This isn’t really about what the minimum should be, this is about what Ford should be paying to retain new hires and IMO our jobs are not minimum wage jobs, regardless of what the minimum is arbitrarily set at by local jurisdictions. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

6 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

Is there any hope of getting this thread back on track about the 2024 Ranger?

 

HRG

Sure, when there’s something new to talk about

[silvrsvt]

9 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

Is there any hope of getting this thread back on track about the 2024 Ranger?

 

HRG

 

Noooooooo LOL

[akirby]

3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

This isn’t really about what the minimum should be, this is about what Ford should be paying to retain new hires and IMO our jobs are not minimum wage jobs, regardless of what the minimum is arbitrarily set at by local jurisdictions. 

Last comment - if they’re not paying enough then why are people hiring on?  Why don’t they just go work somewhere else?  That’s how the free market works.  

[Chrisgb]

10 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

Is there any hope of getting this thread back on track about the 2024 Ranger?

 

HRG

Tieing it altogether:

With today's ATP's,  I could never afford one at minimum wage

[fuzzymoomoo]

55 minutes ago, akirby said:

Last comment - if they’re not paying enough then why are people hiring on?  Why don’t they just go work somewhere else?  That’s how the free market works.  

They’re coming on thinking they’re going to be paid higher than that they start at, which is why so many more than usual are leaving after their first week (or sooner). That’s my entire point. There’s nothing that I can tell that is keeping Ford from raising starting pay today and even if the company is contractually bound to that I really don’t think the Union would take issue with them breaking the contract to raise starting wages. 
 

We agree more on this than you seem to think. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by fuzzymoomoo

[akirby]

3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

They’re coming on thinking they’re going to be paid higher than that they start at, which is why so many more than usual are leaving after their first week (or sooner). That’s my entire point. There’s nothing that I can tell that is keeping Ford from raising starting pay today and even if the company is contractually bound to that I really don’t think the Union would take issue with them breaking the contract to raise starting wages. 
 

We agree more on this than you seem to think. 

 I bet most would quit regardless of pay just because they can’t take it.  But back to Ranger….