The Real Reason Why No One Ever Plugs In Their Plug-In Hybrid Vehicles

[akirby]

12 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

It feels like the politicians and automakers lost the rabbit with electrification. In their zeal (and perceived greed) for an all electric future, they missed the very important pre step of transitioning ICE buyers into a basic hybrid power train. That single step would have improved low speed efficiency with zero impact on the energy grid.

 

I said for years that hybrids and plug ins were a smart transition step but you had liberal governments trying to force rapid BEV adoption to save a planet that doesn’t need to be saved.  None of the doomsday predictions have even come close to happening.  Islands aren’t disappearing, hurricanes aren’t worse. Nothing but virtue signaling and money grabs.

[Texasota]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Nothing but virtue signaling and money grabs.

Follow the money and things become self explanatory.

[jpd80]

On 9/27/2025 at 7:09 AM, akirby said:

I said for years that hybrids and plug ins were a smart transition step but you had liberal governments trying to force rapid BEV adoption to save a planet that doesn’t need to be saved.  None of the doomsday predictions have even come close to happening.  Islands aren’t disappearing, hurricanes aren’t worse. Nothing but virtue signaling and money grabs.

Try living in a country where every export is considered evil and adding to climate change, Australia exports coal, iron ore and Aluminium to Japan, Korea, China and India. Without our exports, they would just turn to South America and Africa instead. Our Aussie government seems hell bent on self sabotage to appease European emission targets that China constantly seeks delays or evades.

Edited September 27 by jpd80

[Rick73]

On 9/26/2025 at 3:53 PM, jpd80 said:

It feels like the politicians and automakers lost the rabbit with electrification. In their zeal (and perceived greed) for an all electric future, they missed the very important pre step of transitioning ICE buyers into a basic hybrid power train. That single step would have improved low speed efficiency with zero impact on the energy grid.
 

 

 

 

Yeah, politicians tend to be shortsighted and based many decisions and regulations on technology that was available at the time, not realizing that hybrids would keep getting more efficient and at lower costs, while at same time BEV efficiency fell well below what was initially used to justify new policies.  Also BEV prices did not become as affordable as many expected, nor did many of the charging schemes that were to relieve stress on grid.

 

I recall environmental studies estimating GHG reductions based on BEVs getting 4 miles per kWh (often used Tesla Model 3 as example), and average ICE getting +/- 22 MPG.  Obviously there are many BEVs capable of obtaining 4 miles per kWh, but buyers can and often choose BEVs with as little as 2 miles per kWh.  Compare that to hybrids that can do over 40 MPG and suddenly projected GHG reductions are minimal by comparison.

 

If not for safety concerns in accidents, I think inexpensive compact electric City Cars could serve as additional vehicles rather than as replacement to present ICE, which could help speed transition.  On the other hand as technology evolves it’s possible hybrid efficiency could approach 100 MPG, making justification for BEVs that much tougher.  Environmentalists often opposed hybrids for that reason; fearing it would derail BEV adoption.

 

For reference, the VW diesel hybrid 2-seater XL1 was the most efficient limited-production car ever built which achieved 250 MPG Combined.  Using gas and more conventional design a 100 MPG goal doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.  Not a replacement for SUV but an alternate way to move people around on many trips.

 

 

 

 

[Texasota]

2 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Environmentalists often opposed hybrids for that reason; fearing it would derail BEV adoption.

Yes, that was the motivation of the article posted at the beginning of this thread.

[Sherminator98]

5 hours ago, Rick73 said:

If not for safety concerns in accidents, I think inexpensive compact electric City Cars could serve as additional vehicles rather than as replacement to present ICE, which could help speed transition.  On the other hand as technology evolves it’s possible hybrid efficiency could approach 100 MPG, making justification for BEVs that much tougher.  Environmentalists often opposed hybrids for that reason; fearing it would derail BEV adoption.

 

The problem with that is say this cheap EV City car would cost say $20K-that would pay for a shit ton of gas for an ICE vehicle. Not mention a city car would be useless for 85% of the country with a range of say 100-150 miles. 

 

Not to mention consumer trends are all about overbuying a vehicle that they don't use 90% of its capabilities daily. 

[jpd80]

30 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

The problem with that is say this cheap EV City car would cost say $20K-that would pay for a shit ton of gas for an ICE vehicle. Not mention a city car would be useless for 85% of the country with a range of say 100-150 miles. 

 

Not to mention consumer trends are all about overbuying a vehicle that they don't use 90% of its capabilities daily. 

I could be wrong but didn’t Ford already try that with the Focus EV?

 

 

[Sherminator98]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I could be wrong but didn’t Ford already try that with the Focus EV?

 

 

 

IIRC the Focus EV was a decent chunk of change when it came out...it wasn't cheap at all

 

[Rick73]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I could be wrong but didn’t Ford already try that with the Focus EV?

 

 

The Focus EV was a “real” car weighing around 3,600 pounds.  Not what I was thinking of.

 

To help ease many on the fence to try electrification, I was thinking more like half that weight, which would be similar to VW XL1, or roughly 1,800 pounds.  A 2-seater design would likely be required to keep weight and cost down enough, somewhat similar in size to the Lexus LF-SA concept from years ago (it was 2+2 but useless rear seat), though built on a budget similar to Dacia Spring.  Definitely not from a luxury brand like Lexus or Mercedes, so no Smart price premium.  Emphasis on affordability and efficiency so that 25 kWh battery could provide roughly 150 miles of city driving.

 

Note below that 4-seater Dacia Spring weighs half as much as Mercedes CLA 250+, at just over 2,200 pounds, yet no more energy efficient.  A sub 2,000-pound EV today with efficiency as high as the Mercedes or a Tesla should be practical for many city drivers with as small as 25 kWh battery capacity.

 

Also interesting to note the Dacia Spring’s price is about 1/3 of the Mercedes CLA 250.  My thought is it would have to be a real budget vehicle to get many drivers to try an EV almost on a whim.  By the way, I’m referring to Lexus concept for its City Car size and not its styling.  I think it looks OK but expect it’s not very aerodynamic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jpd80]

6 hours ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

IIRC the Focus EV was a decent chunk of change when it came out...it wasn't cheap at all

 

Good point.

That was because Magna developed it and used all of its components,

Ford just stuck their margin on top for $39,300, can’t help feeling that

buyers paid for an engine and gearbox they never got…..

After sluggish sales, the price was slashed $4,000 and and with that

$7,500 tax credit,  the price was still  around $28,000 

 

Edit,

just remembered that Tesla 3 launched back in 2017,

and that would have killed Focus EV on the spot…..

Edited September 30 by jpd80

[rmc523]

6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Good point.

That was because Magna developed it and used all of its components,

Ford just stuck their margin on top for $39,300, can’t help feeling that

buyers paid for an engine and gearbox they never got…..

After sluggish sales, the price was slashed $4,000 and and with that

$7,500 tax credit,  the price was still  around $28,000 

 

Edit,

just remembered that Tesla 3 launched back in 2017,

and that would have killed Focus EV on the spot…..

 

meh, let's be honest.....Focus EV killed itself on the spot lol.

[akirby]

30 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

meh, let's be honest.....Focus EV killed itself on the spot lol.

It was only built as a science experiment/compliance vehicle.

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

meh, let's be honest.....Focus EV killed itself on the spot lol.

 

6 hours ago, akirby said:

It was only built as a science experiment/compliance vehicle.

When it was released in 2011, it was promising demonstration vehicle but showed the limitations of design and also of the thinking of the time, range anxiety was a big issue. In 2017 eyes when Tesla 3 arrived, it was instantly redundant.

IMO, you are both correct but the real problem was that Ford did nothing with it for

six years and let it be run down by the much better Tesla 3. Tesla threw out the $36,00 price but knew that it would build few if any at that price. The damage was done, the EV Focus was unpopular at any price because the range was only about a third of what the new Tesla offered.