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Ford's VW-based electric SUV spied for the first time


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8 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Not bad, giving me major explorer vibes.

 

I read that Ford wanted to give it an "American" design/look, so making it look like a baby Explorer makes sense.

If Ford will stick to its original plans, this MEB-based model is mainly for the European market. Ford really needs to come up with more affordable EVs positioned below the Mach E that it can sell globally and build in multiple plants (in Europe, North America, Asia etc).

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4 hours ago, AM222 said:

I read that Ford wanted to give it an "American" design/look, so making it look like a baby Explorer makes sense.

If Ford will stick to its original plans, this MEB-based model is mainly for the European market. Ford really needs to come up with more affordable EVs positioned below the Mach E that it can sell globally and build in multiple plants (in Europe, North America, Asia etc).

 

12 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Not bad, giving me major explorer vibes.

 


I had the same thought-it looks like a baby Explorer and I’m sure Ford is figuring out something for the lower end of the market that will be the BEV Escape/Maverick/Bronco Sport. I just wonder how a B size segment vehicle will work in the BEV market given it’s packaging and pricing limitations. 

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14 hours ago, AM222 said:

I read that Ford wanted to give it an "American" design/look, so making it look like a baby Explorer makes sense.

If Ford will stick to its original plans, this MEB-based model is mainly for the European market. Ford really needs to come up with more affordable EVs positioned below the Mach E that it can sell globally and build in multiple plants (in Europe, North America, Asia etc).

 

The original Hackett plan was to make Oakville the MEB center for North America so this model would have been sold here to replace Escape so I'm not surprised by the strong Explorer influence. Remember the talk a while back that Ford was going to make Explorer a "family" like Mustang, Bronco, Transit, and F-Series? This could have been Explorer Sport.

 

The revised Farley plan is to limit use of MEB to just Europe and only in 1 plant (Cologne). The rest of Ford Europe plants are aligned with GE2 products (Valencia) or modified B2 platform EV (Craiova). Saarlouis is on the chopping block... rumor is BYD is going to buy it from Ford.

 

Ford hasn't said much about smaller EV other than Puma, which will debut later this year. I think the price point for that China requires means we probably will see some creative engineering. If Puma is a guide (using existing B2 platform), maybe we will see some C2 EV to compliment the more premium GE2 EV by 2025 or 2026.

Edited by bzcat
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2 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

The original Hackett plan was to make Oakville the MEB center for North America so this model would have been sold here to replace Escape so I'm not surprised by the strong Explorer influence. Remember the talk a while back that Ford was going to make Explorer a "family" like Mustang, Bronco, Transit, and F-Series? This could have been Explorer Sport.

 

I think it might be still called that...we are getting a BEV Explorer, but we will still have the D6 ICE Explorer till 2033 or so. 

 

I don't see them calling the BEV Explorer and ICE Explorer the same name...I can see the ICE Explorer moving to Patrol interceptor or something in the early 2030 since I'm going to assume that is who is going to buy most of them at that point. 

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1 hour ago, T-dubz said:

Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t see much explorer. The shape looks good though. Looks like it’s wider than the Mach E. I’m just curious how ford intends to do the grille on this one.

 

its mostly in the grill/headlights/front facia...it looks more like the D3 based Explorer that way

2018 Ford Explorer review: 2018 Ford Explorer: Minor updates to tech and  aesthetics - CNET

 

Image

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15 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 


I had the same thought-it looks like a baby Explorer and I’m sure Ford is figuring out something for the lower end of the market that will be the BEV Escape/Maverick/Bronco Sport. I just wonder how a B size segment vehicle will work in the BEV market given it’s packaging and pricing limitations. 

Don’t be misled, Ford refers to Bronco Sport as a subcompact even though it’s the size of Gen 1 Escape.

So given that, I think there’s a bit of wiggle room on sizes, especially if the packaging of new EVs is a lot better.

 

To me the Cologne BEV is same size as Escape but the squarer lines fall between current Escape/Kuga and Bronco Sport. I think this thing has “hit” written all over it especially if Ford can import to North America until its own design is ready. Can’t wait to see the companion crossover, I suspect the Ford body style will make it equally desirable…..

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8 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Don’t be misled, Ford refers to Bronco Sport as a subcompact even though it’s the size of Gen 1 Escape.

So given that, I think there’s a bit of wiggle room on sizes, especially if the packaging of new EVs is a lot better.

 

To me the Cologne BEV is same size as Escape but the squarer lines fall between current Escape/Kuga and Bronco Sport. I think this thing has “hit” written all over it especially if Ford can import to North America until its own design is ready. Can’t wait to see the companion crossover, I suspect the Ford body style will make it equally desirable…..

 

In the grand scheme of things sizing isn't that much different.

2022 Escape 181″ L x 74″ W x 66″ H

2022 Bronco Sport 172 x 74 x 70

2022 Bronco (4 door) 189.4 x 75.9 x 73

 

The Sport is actually shorter then a second Gen Escape but is wider. 175″ L x 70″ W x 70″ H

 

The ID.4 is 181″ L x 73″ W x 65″ H, which I'm assuming this is directly based on.

 

Has Ford mentioned anything about the Kuga going away the EU?

 

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16 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I think this thing has “hit” written all over it especially if Ford can import to North America until its own design is ready. Can’t wait to see the companion crossover, I suspect the Ford body style will make it equally desirable…..

If Ford imports this from Germany, will they be able to price it competitively?  The VW ID4 made in the US starts at almost $40k.

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2 hours ago, AM222 said:

If Ford imports this from Germany, will they be able to price it competitively?  The VW ID4 made in the US starts at almost $40k.

 

There are no plans for the MEB to come to the US from Ford...the Escape goes BEV in early 2026 on GE 2.1. Given how bad the battery supply situation is currently, it would make no sense to bring it here when its needed more in the EU for regulations. I'm guessing whatever this is will be replaced by the GE2.1 platform by 2028 or so. 

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23 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I think it might be still called that...we are getting a BEV Explorer, but we will still have the D6 ICE Explorer till 2033 or so. 
 

Depending on how the BEV 3-row Utility goes, I think Chicago may see significant cuts to shifts 

January 1 inventory is 38,000 although some of those could be awaiting parts for completion.

Ford wants no concern over CAP future in a bargaining year but what happens if say, half of

ICE Explorer sales transfer to BEV 3-row (from what I’m hearing, that’s a distinct possibility)

 

 

Quote

 

I don't see them calling the BEV Explorer and ICE Explorer the same name...I can see the ICE Explorer moving to Patrol interceptor or something in the early 2030 since I'm going to assume that is who is going to buy most of them at that point. 

Originally, Ford had this idea of reinventing the BEVs as new vehicles distinct from their ICE cousins but since Lightning debut and strong order response, I think we will see a bigger embrace of replacement perception, a lot can happen between then and now but I agree about CD6 Explorer possible rename….

 

If ever there was going to be an Explorer Sport, it should be a vehicle that replaces both Edge and Escape so as to give Bronco Sport more product space (could still happen with CE1 own design). While Ford is planning CE1 Bronco Sport for Louisville, I have a hunch that Ford Europe may already be working on Escape / move C2 production to BEVs by the time Cologne BEV agreement expires but we’ll see…

 

 

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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

If ever there was going to be an Explorer Sport, it should be a vehicle that replaces both Edge and Escape so as to give Bronco Sport more product space (could still happen with CE1 own design). While Ford is planning CE1 Bronco Sport for Louisville, I have a hunch that Ford Europe may already be working on Escape / move C2 production to BEVs by the time Cologne BEV agreement expires but we’ll see…

 

In the grand scheme of things, the Edge has been replaced by the Mach E and the Bronco...both are roughly the same size (overall length) and appeal to demographic that the Edge was going for. 

 

Looking at this from a purely North American marketplace, I see the Mach E filling in the upper end of the Midsized BEV market, The BEV Explorer the large BEV market (even though it won't be that much larger then the MME), and the Escape being high end of the compact market being basically the midsize sedan of the day to butts up the the Mach E, while be based on lower end models like the Maverick BEV and Bronco Sport BEV when they come along. Both the ICE Sport and Maverick are expect to last into the middle of next decade. 

Then don't discount the Escape getting a coupe version like the Mach E to fill out more of the CUV market like other CUVs are doing in the other part of the world. 

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13 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

In the grand scheme of things sizing isn't that much different.

2022 Escape 181″ L x 74″ W x 66″ H

2022 Bronco Sport 172 x 74 x 70

2022 Bronco (4 door) 189.4 x 75.9 x 73

 

The Sport is actually shorter then a second Gen Escape but is wider. 175″ L x 70″ W x 70″ H

 

The ID.4 is 181″ L x 73″ W x 65″ H, which I'm assuming this is directly based on.

Has Ford mentioned anything about the Kuga going away the EU?

 

 

Nothing official but we can probably read the tea leaf just like we did before with MEB.

  • Ford said it will end ICE sales in Europe by 2030 so no new ICE model likely in the works given the development timeline.
  • It's doubtful that Ford will renew the ICE Kuga without ICE Escape and vice versa. And we know no new ICE Escape is planned for North America.
  • Kuga is build in Valencia which is switching to Ford's own (unspecified) EV platform, but it is most likely GE2 because the other one is TE1 and that ain't going to be build in Europe. 
  • The MEB CUV in Cologne is roughly the same size as ID.4 which as you noted, is almost identical to Escape in size. 

So my guess is MEB EV will go on sale in 2024 but Ford will keep Kuga in parallel for a few years because Valencia is not quite ready to switch to EV yet. Also Kuga is currently one of the top selling PHEV in Europe so might as well cash in while they still can. The question is what is Ford building in Valencia in a few years time... is it Explorer EV or gen 2 Mach E? 

 

Also keep in mind that Cologne MEB is actually two models... the conventional CUV is replacing (or in addition to) Kuga. The Sport Crossover is replacing Focus completely which is ending production in 2024.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, bzcat said:

So my guess is MEB EV will go on sale in 2024 but Ford will keep Kuga in parallel for a few years because Valencia is not quite ready to switch to EV yet. Also Kuga is currently one of the top selling PHEV in Europe so might as well cash in while they still can. The question is what is Ford building in Valencia in a few years time... is it Explorer EV or gen 2 Mach E? 

 

Also keep in mind that Cologne MEB is actually two models... the conventional CUV is replacing (or in addition to) Kuga. The Sport Crossover is replacing Focus completely which is ending production in 2024.

I'm guessing Valencia will get GE2 in 2025/2026 timeframe, given what's going on with the GE2 Escape in North America (January 2026 launch). I don't see the Mach E or the Explorer going there since the MME is made in Mexico and given how the Explorer sells in the EU, importing it from Oakville would be a better course of action? 

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53 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

I'm guessing Valencia will get GE2 in 2025/2026 timeframe, given what's going on with the GE2 Escape in North America (January 2026 launch). I don't see the Mach E or the Explorer going there since the MME is made in Mexico and given how the Explorer sells in the EU, importing it from Oakville would be a better course of action? 

 

It's unclear for sure. Mach E sales in Europe is constrained by how many Ford can ship over so I have to think that Farley is looking at building it in Europe. I suspect at the end, Ford will have the option to build any GE2 vehicles in Spain and they will all be on the table.

 

And don't forget that Ford's arrangement with VW to supply Transit Connect in Europe is at best a temporary thing. I think Ford will want to produce its own vans in Europe again ASAP because they are key profit drivers for Ford Europe. So Transit Connect EV (GE2 based?) should land in Valencia. 

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6 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

In the grand scheme of things, the Edge has been replaced by the Mach E and the Bronco...both are roughly the same size (overall length) and appeal to demographic that the Edge was going for. 

You could also make a case that the base 2-for Explorer has also done its part to replace the Edge.

Getting back to the point I was making was that there’s an opportunity to increase the size of the Escape replacement just enough to absorb the slightly bigger Edge while providing more product space for Bronco Sport…..just a thought.

 

6 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Looking at this from a purely North American marketplace, I see the Mach E filling in the upper end of the Midsized BEV market, The BEV Explorer the large BEV market (even though it won't be that much larger then the MME), and the Escape being high end of the compact market being basically the midsize sedan of the day to butts up the the Mach E, while be based on lower end models like the Maverick BEV and Bronco Sport BEV when they come along. Both the ICE Sport and Maverick are expect to last into the middle of next decade. 

 

Then don't discount the Escape getting a coupe version like the Mach E to fill out more of the CUV market like other CUVs are doing in the other part of the world. 

The second vehicle to come out of Cologne is basically a Focus Active crossover.

Ford will be looking at all compact and mid sized BEVs developed for North America but the priority is definitely on larger BEVs that can justify higher prices. Let’s not forget that Ford told us the pickle it’s in with electric  compacts, the build cost on the 2020 Edge was $19,000 where Mach E was borderline profitable at $50,000. Ford went to VW to get that cost down to roughly $40,000 and now thinks it can do better with an in-house developed vehicle…….yay, they’ve come full circle.

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3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Ford will be looking at all compact and mid sized BEVs developed for North America but the priority is definitely on larger BEVs that can justify higher prices. Let’s not forget that Ford told us the pickle it’s in with electric  compacts, the build cost on the 2020 Edge was $19,000 where Mach E was borderline profitable at $50,000. Ford went to VW to get that cost down to roughly $40,000 and now thinks it can do better with an in-house developed vehicle…….yay, they’ve come full circle.

 

I think much of this was just trying to meet the EU sales requirements for BEVs and as they where going down that path, Ford discovered that VW wasn't doing that great of a job with costs (which VW has admitted to also) and they'd be better off going in house again with their own designs. 

The big issue with BEVs is battery raw material costs-hopefully the increased production of cells and the introduction of other materials to be used as battery cells drops prices as time goes on, along with figuring out how to make the assembly process of unibody cheaper. 

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