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CATL-Ford Battery Plant


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6 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

More BEV battery news:

 

https://www.electrive.com/2023/01/26/gm-to-switch-from-pouch-to-round-battery-cells/

 

This may explain why GM is not doing a 4th. plant with LG.  The Mach-E (and I assume the Lightning) currently use pouch cell batteries.  CATL makes prismatic cell batteries, is that the direction Ford is going?

CATL is a large supplier of lithium iron phosphate batteries.  Ford is likely using them for the lower cost standard range packs with LiFePo.  I thought Ford made an announcement on that earlier.

 

It will be interesting to see if Ford joins the 4680 bandwagon also.  Panasonic had stated concerns about the form factor and cooling.  Maybe that has been worked out.

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2 hours ago, slemke said:

CATL is a large supplier of lithium iron phosphate batteries.  Ford is likely using them for the lower cost standard range packs with LiFePo.  I thought Ford made an announcement on that earlier.

 

It will be interesting to see if Ford joins the 4680 bandwagon also.  Panasonic had stated concerns about the form factor and cooling.  Maybe that has been worked out.

LFPs from CATL plant were supposed to be additional batteries for Mach E later this year and Lightning in ‘24.

It sure sounds like GM’s Ultium cell tech is falling apart behind the scenes, maybe same problems as CATL folded gel Packs?

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Some info on battery types-seems like pouch and prismatic batteries could have issues being used in automotive applications

 

https://www.epectec.com/batteries/prismatic-pouch-packs.html

 

standardizing on a cell type battery like is currently being used might be the best bet since the whole industry is using them and might be able to use them in different applications? 

 

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31 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Some info on battery types-seems like pouch and prismatic batteries could have issues being used in automotive applications

 

https://www.epectec.com/batteries/prismatic-pouch-packs.html

 

standardizing on a cell type battery like is currently being used might be the best bet since the whole industry is using them and might be able to use them in different applications? 

 

 

Thank you silvrsvt. Here's a video that describes the pros and cons of each battery cell configuration.

 

 

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14 hours ago, jpd80 said:

LFPs from CATL plant were supposed to be additional batteries for Mach E later this year and Lightning in ‘24.

It sure sounds like GM’s Ultium cell tech is falling apart behind the scenes, maybe same problems as CATL folded gel Packs?

 

Wouldn't say Ultium is falling apart, more like they are searching for the best technology going forward.  Very interested to see where they go with Ultium Home Energy and SunPower.

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7 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

Wouldn't say Ultium is falling apart, more like they are searching for the best technology going forward.  Very interested to see where they go with Ultium Home Energy and SunPower.

The silence from GM is deafening, they were going to have a flood of new BEVs by now…….

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5 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

Hummer, Silverado EV, Sierra EV, Corvette E-Ray, Cadillac Lyriq and Celestiq, Chevy Bolt, Bolt EUV, Equinox and Blazer EV's, and BrightDrop.  Maybe not a flood yet but the tide is rising for sure.

So where they all hiding……

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GM are behind in their output and sales goals: 

Quote

General Motors has postponed its goal of delivering a total of 400,000 electric vehicles in North America by the end of 2023 by six months. As GM CEO Mary Barra explained during the company’s announcement of its latest quarterly results, battery production cannot be ramped up as quickly as planned.

 More here: https://www.electrive.com/2022/10/27/general-motors-delays-us-electrification-goals-by-half-a-year/

 

The cited article is from the end of October last year. Who knows if their timeline has slipped further back since...

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42 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

I’m talking about all the production and sales that were supposed to be seeing by now…..

 

Thanks for the clarification jpd80. Ford has GM beat in terms of BEV production and sales in the U.S. market, and GM said yesterday that they don't intend to cut prices to be competitive with Tesla. This action, along with GM executives' hubris that they will beat Tesla overall in the coming years, could backfire on GM despite their ramp up of vehicle and battery production facilities.  GM Won't Drop Electric Car Prices, Despite Ford and Tesla EV Discounts (businessinsider.com)

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3 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

One of the Silverado EV prototypes was at the basement of Walter E. Washington Convention Center last week.

 

silverado_ev_washington.jpg


How's the demand for this thing looking? Did they take reservations?

Haven't liked much from GM trucks design wise since the 67-72 trucks, some of the 2000s stuff wasn't bad.. this thing is almost as ugly as cybertruck to me.

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28 minutes ago, Captainp4 said:

How's the demand for this thing looking? Did they take reservations?

 

Like other BEV pickup trucks, demand for Silverado EV is massive. Last October, GM reported about 170,000 reservations. Wouldn't be surprised if that number is now past 200k. GM Has 170,000 Chevy Silverado EV Reservations (gmauthority.com)

 

Reservation site. Reserve a First-Ever Silverado EV | Chevrolet

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31 minutes ago, akirby said:

Reservations are nice but meaningless until they’re actually delivering.

 

Definitely. While reservations can indicate the overall market appeal of a product by gauging the number of "hand raisers", in the end delivering the product to the customer in a timely manner is what really matters just as you said.

 

All automakers of BEV pickup trucks are having trouble with that, but Ford is doing better than GM, Rivian, and Lordstown Motors nowadays in terms of getting the product shipped.

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8 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I’m talking about all the production and sales that were supposed to be seeing by now…..

 

I've seen a few Lyriq and Hummer and of course Bolt (which is not Ultium) is everywhere.

 

The first big volume model is Equinox and it is launching this summer. Silverado is fall I believe (or maybe 2024?) 

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13 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Thanks for the clarification jpd80. Ford has GM beat in terms of BEV production and sales in the U.S. market, and GM said yesterday that they don't intend to cut prices to be competitive with Tesla. This action, along with GM executives' hubris that they will beat Tesla overall in the coming years, could backfire on GM despite their ramp up of vehicle and battery production facilities.  GM Won't Drop Electric Car Prices, Despite Ford and Tesla EV Discounts (businessinsider.com)

 

I don't know that GM is making a mistake not cutting prices.  Tesla is cutting prices at least in part to head off competition as more and more new BEV's hit the market, a particularly concerning situation for Tesla considering their aging product line.  Also many of these upcoming BEV's are trucks and SUV's, areas where Tesla is particularly weak (I don't expect the Cyber Truck to be much of a success).  I didn't hear that Ford had any plans to cut the price on the Lightning (and I hope they don't) but they seem compelled to cut the price on the Mach E as it's priced close to the Tesla 3.  The Chevy Bolt is quite a bit less expensive than either of those cars and I expect the 2024 Equinox EV (a dark horse) will be very competitively priced so I think GM will have the lower end of the BEV market well covered.  In any event, I think if Tesla starts a price war it will not hurt GM or Ford in the long term, but it may well wipe out all the startups.             

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