silvrsvt Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 https://www.autonews.com/cars-concepts/ford-europe-reveal-vw-based-electric-car 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 15, 2023 Author Share Posted March 15, 2023 Hmm Exploring reinvented…wonder if it’s going to be called the Explorer Sport or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 I wasn't sure where to put this, but this seems like it may be the best place.... From a Ford Authority article today....VW's CEO seems to think Ford-VW's tie up is growing, not shrinking as all other indications have been.... Quote However, as it aims to significantly ramp up EV production in the coming years, future Blue Oval EVs may ditch the MEB platform in favor of FoMoCo’s own American-based underpinnings, potentially putting this relationship on the rocks. On the flip side, VW Group CEO Oliver Blume doesn’t believe that’s the case at all, according to Automotive News Europe. “We only at the beginning of our cooperation project,” the VW Group boss said while discussing the German automaker’s 2022 financial results. Blume also noted that Volkswagen is “intensifying” its relationship with Ford, mere weeks after FoMoCo seemed to indicate that it will scale back its reliance on the MEB platform for future EVs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, rmc523 said: I wasn't sure where to put this, but this seems like it may be the best place.... From a Ford Authority article today....VW's CEO seems to think Ford-VW's tie up is growing, not shrinking as all other indications have been.... It sounds like there'll be an eventual turnover (as always). Ford gained the D3 platform from Volvo and rode that out for a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 15, 2023 Author Share Posted March 15, 2023 It also might become more one way? Ford will build their truck for them but I don't see a point of Ford keeping the MEB if they have a better idea or platform to use. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 56 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: It also might become more one way? Ford will build their truck for them but I don't see a point of Ford keeping the MEB if they have a better idea or platform to use. Yeah, that's true. Agreed on dumping MEB if they have their own that they want global volume on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 11 hours ago, silvrsvt said: It also might become more one way? Ford will build their truck for them but I don't see a point of Ford keeping the MEB if they have a better idea or platform to use. Better ideas, own platform and battery supply….180 degrees to what Jim Hackett signed up for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM222 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 17 hours ago, rmc523 said: I wasn't sure where to put this, but this seems like it may be the best place.... From a Ford Authority article today....VW's CEO seems to think Ford-VW's tie up is growing, not shrinking as all other indications have been.... This portion of the quote you posted that says "However, as it aims to significantly ramp up EV production in the coming years, future Blue Oval EVs may ditch the MEB platform in favor of FoMoCo’s own American-based underpinnings" American underpinnings... I wonder if that will include affordable compact models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 7 hours ago, AM222 said: This portion of the quote you posted that says "However, as it aims to significantly ramp up EV production in the coming years, future Blue Oval EVs may ditch the MEB platform in favor of FoMoCo’s own American-based underpinnings" American underpinnings... I wonder if that will include affordable compact models. well, 2 things: 1) Ford has BS/Escape/Corsair/Maverick to replace, not including potential for a potential TC replacement. So they’ll need something capable of underpinning compact products even if sedans or hatches never reappear 2) VW’s MEB platform I think is for compact products only (I believe the version for larger products is called MQB), so if Ford is looking at replacing it with their own platform, it’d have to at least be capable of underpinning compacts - especially since Ford’s use of MEB is/was primarily focused on the European market where smaller/compact vehicles which make up the core part of the market there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 MQB is VW's transverse ICE platform. It's like Ford's C2 platform. MLB is VW's longitude ICE platform. It is like Ford's CD6 platform. MEB is VW's small to midsize EV platform, it is intended to replace MQB vehicles as they transition to EV. PPE is VW's large size EV platform, it is intended to replace MLB vehicles as they transition to EV. MEB and PPE are the hardware. They will be using the same same software platform (SSP) by 2024, starting with the Porsche Macan EV and Audi A6 eTron. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 1 hour ago, bzcat said: MQB is VW's transverse ICE platform. It's like Ford's C2 platform. MLB is VW's longitude ICE platform. It is like Ford's CD6 platform. MEB is VW's small to midsize EV platform, it is intended to replace MQB vehicles as they transition to EV. PPE is VW's large size EV platform, it is intended to replace MLB vehicles as they transition to EV. MEB and PPE are the hardware. They will be using the same same software platform (SSP) by 2024, starting with the Porsche Macan EV and Audi A6 eTron. Whoops. Well regardless, MEB was small and something else was large. And....based on that, VW itself is throwing MEB away lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 20 hours ago, rmc523 said: Whoops. Well regardless, MEB was small and something else was large. And....based on that, VW itself is throwing MEB away lol. MEB is the hardware platform and it is staying. SSP is the software platform which will have 3 versions (Trinity, Apollo, Artemis) with different features depending on price point. This is what all the car companies are doing as well. In the future, the hardware platform is not going to be as important (you can even outsource it - e.g. buy turnkey VW MEB or Foxconn platform) but the software is where the differentiation happens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 7 hours ago, bzcat said: In the future, the hardware platform is not going to be as important (you can even outsource it - e.g. buy turnkey VW MEB or Foxconn platform) but the software is where the differentiation happens. Definitely. Jim Farley talked about this shortly after becoming Ford CEO. He said that he expects the "unleashing technology and software in ways that set Ford apart from competitors". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 The problem VW has is Tesla taking huge chunks out of VW sales in China and Europe, it either responds to the threat of suffers the consequences of evaporating sales and income. At the moment, Tesla is less of a threat to Ford and GM and that gives them breathing space to change and fortify their range of ICE, Hybrids and BEVs. In America, that is pure profit for the taking. American buyers are probably transitioning slower to BEVs but that could be a good thing for both prices/profit and roll out of charging networks. America gets the best balance of product choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, rperez817 said: Definitely. Jim Farley talked about this shortly after becoming Ford CEO. He said that he expects the "unleashing technology and software in ways that set Ford apart from competitors". And yet the biggest obstacles to Ford making BEVs is battery supply and developing cost efficient BEV platforms. To Ford, the software thing is more about them seeing an opportunity to price gouge buyers with recurring subscription fees for options and services already available. Farley has bought into this idea but doesn’t know how to sell it to buyers. Edited March 17, 2023 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willwll313wll Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 14 hours ago, jpd80 said: The problem VW has is Tesla taking huge chunks out of VW sales in China and Europe, it either responds to the threat of suffers the consequences of evaporating sales and income. At the moment, Tesla is less of a threat to Ford and GM and that gives them breathing space to change and fortify their range of ICE, Hybrids and BEVs. In America, that is pure profit for the taking. American buyers are probably transitioning slower to BEVs but that could be a good thing for both prices/profit and roll out of charging networks. America gets the best balance of product choices. I think BYD is taking a much bigger hit at VW than Tesla. BYD outsold VW in China monthly twice over the last 4-5 months or so, and BYD now has twice the market share of EVs in China compared to Tesla. BYD is a threat to to VW and Tesla in that market. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 10 hours ago, Willwll313wll said: I think BYD is taking a much bigger hit at VW than Tesla. BYD outsold VW in China monthly twice over the last 4-5 months or so, and BYD now has twice the market share of EVs in China compared to Tesla. BYD is a threat to to VW and Tesla in that market. The difference being that Tesla is taking a lot of VW’s premium sales in both China and Europe. The cream sales from VW’s premium sales and brands are going to Tesla, more so than BYD. Sure, BYD is a big player in China too but they go after the affordable vehicle buyers and true, that will also be hurting VW to a degree but more so when BYD expands its European sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 On 3/17/2023 at 7:14 PM, jpd80 said: And yet the biggest obstacles to Ford making BEVs is battery supply and developing cost efficient BEV platforms. To Ford, the software thing is more about them seeing an opportunity to price gouge buyers with recurring subscription fees for options and services already available. Farley has bought into this idea but doesn’t know how to sell it to buyers. I really think this subscription BS is terrible, and I hope Ford doesn't do it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 20, 2023 Author Share Posted March 20, 2023 45 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I really think this subscription BS is terrible, and I hope Ford doesn't do it. The thing is trying to find things to make it worthwhile to the end user to spend the money on. Something like an extra 50HP in a Mustang BEV or something like that might be worth it for some users, if the original product isn't nundered just because of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 54 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I really think this subscription BS is terrible, and I hope Ford doesn't do it. I agree, and if they start doing it for options I care about, I’ll start taking a look at other vehicle brand options that don’t do that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: The thing is trying to find things to make it worthwhile to the end user to spend the money on. Something like an extra 50HP in a Mustang BEV or something like that might be worth it for some users, if the original product isn't nundered just because of that. I'm not against "after the fact" upgrades, in fact I like the idea of that. I.e. Maybe you can't afford software-based feature X when car shopping, so you don't order it/get it on your vehicle at purchase. Then in another year you have an extra $500 laying around and want to buy feature X now - and once you purchase it, your car has it from then on. That setup would be great. That arrangement would still be an after-purchase revenue stream for Ford, but also adds value to the customer - both in their own usage and in resale value (i.e., here's my documentation that feature X was added after purchase). What I'm against is a monthly subscription model for features. Seemingly everything is going this way. And for some things like streaming services, it's ok...people don't buy movies anymore, and you'd never have access to the thousands of titles otherwise. But I don't want to lose a feature on my vehicle because I don't want to pay per month (PPM) for feature X for 5-10 years (however long I keep it). IIRC, they have Blue Cruise as a PPM feature after a trial period. I'd want to use it, but wouldn't want to pay continually for it. Sure you could get it for a month when you go on a trip (assuming you can activate and deactivate month to month like streaming services), but then you don't get to use it other times if it's not active. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 A one time purchase price OR a monthly subscription seems like the best way to go. People that don't own their cars long enough that the monthly would cost more than the one time price can benefit and people that will own their car longer can benefit by paying once for a "lifetime" subscription. Either way, the manufacturer makes money and the customer can chose what works best for their situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Ford Europe basically confirmed that it will be named an Explorer thanks to the hashtag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 3 hours ago, ausrutherford said: Ford Europe basically confirmed that it will be named an Explorer thanks to the hashtag. I wonder what they are going to call the North American version that is coming out in a few years? Its going to be weird having two, well Three Explorers in 2025 or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pffan1990 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: I wonder what they are going to call the North American version that is coming out in a few years? Its going to be weird having two, well Three Explorers in 2025 or so. My guess is that the European MEB-based EV will be 'Explorer Sport' and North American version will be 'Explorer xx' with a different second name. I doubt the Sport name would be used on the Oakville-made one if the EV would be 3-row seating, which is a given. Perhaps simply 'Explorer E' or something to denote that it's an EV while the ICE Explorer lives on for as long as Ford plans to keep making it. I'm sure Ford has a plan to further expand the 'Explorer' into a sub-brand as part of its Icon vehicles. Wouldn't be the first time as they did with Explorer Sport and Explorer Sport Trac in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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