Ford to show off VW based BEV March 21st, the Explorer EV

[T-dubz]

Even though I knew it was smaller than the escape, it was hard to visualize the actual size of this vehicle. It looks fairly large in the pictures. This video gives you a good idea of its size. It looks quite small next to what I assume is someone 6ft or less. 

[tbone]

1 hour ago, T-dubz said:

Even though I knew it was smaller than the escape, it was hard to visualize the actual size of this vehicle. It looks fairly large in the pictures. This video gives you a good idea of its size. It looks quite small next to what I assume is someone 6ft or less. 

Wow, that is a lot smaller than I realized.  I do like the looks, but the Explorer DNA is weak in this vehicle, and I don’t see why they would have used the Explorer name on this size of vehicle.  

[Rick73]

8 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Pricing will come in time-by 2030, there will be enough battery manufacturing capacity for 3/4 of all new car sales in North America. 
 

Not sure when we will see $25k entry level vehicles, but the sweet spot of 30-40k is coming in the next five years IMO. 

Base BEV Explorer “starts” at $48,500 (in US dollar), and we should assume Explorer Premium, with AWD, and perhaps larger battery will be significantly higher.  For now, let’s compare base Explorer.

 

If size is just under 4.5 meters in length as reported, that makes it slightly shorter than Honda CR-V or Toyota RAV4.  For comparison, RAV4 and CR-V start at $28,000 and $28.400 respectively, in US.  These are obviously very different vehicles than BEV Explorer, but suggest price needs to come down a bunch for mass adoption in my opinion.

[Rick73]

1 hour ago, T-dubz said:

Even though I knew it was smaller than the escape, it was hard to visualize the actual size of this vehicle. It looks fairly large in the pictures. This video gives you a good idea of its size. It looks quite small next to what I assume is someone 6ft or less. 

Agree SUV must be small unless man is very tall, though my guess is that he’s well above 6ft tall based on how high his head was relative to the seat’s headrest.  

[jpd80]

On 3/21/2023 at 11:24 PM, silvrsvt said:

 

I agree with that, but you'll still have two different products competing in the same marketplace come 2025.

I don't ever recall Ford having three different products with the same name for sale worldwide. 

Look at MEB Explorer and imagine CE1 Bronco Sport at Louisville after Escape balance out.

GE2 “Explorer” will obviously be bigger, wider SUV for North America but I wonder if they call it something else to distance it from CD6 Explorer at CAP.

 

I wonder if the larger BEV market takes little longer to transition, just a feeling that Ford’s BEV plans are slower than it wants, they gas on about ramp up but will gladly sell high with restricted ICE inventory. Will we be having similar discussions next year?

 

New MEB Explorer is “OK”, the RWD & AWD power options look low compared to Tesla, that may be the biggest chink in this strategy.

Edited March 22, 2023 by jpd80

[ice-capades]

16 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

Good to see you @ice-capades....how ya been?

 

I'm okay... just busy taking care of some personal matters and getting ready to tackle some overdue creative projects. Thanks!

[silvrsvt]

10 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Base BEV Explorer “starts” at $48,500 (in US dollar), and we should assume Explorer Premium, with AWD, and perhaps larger battery will be significantly higher.  For now, let’s compare base Explorer.

 

If size is just under 4.5 meters in length as reported, that makes it slightly shorter than Honda CR-V or Toyota RAV4.  For comparison, RAV4 and CR-V start at $28,000 and $28.400 respectively, in US.  These are obviously very different vehicles than BEV Explorer, but suggest price needs to come down a bunch for mass adoption in my opinion.

 

You missed my point-your not going to see significant price drops till manufacturing of batteries is more wide spread-I posted a DOE link and by 2030, almost 3/4 of all new vehicle production will be covered by battery cell production in North America. What the Explorer EV costs right now isn't the point. No one has an affordable EV that would meet NA tastes...maybe in China where smaller cars are more accepted and only a 100-150 of range is acceptable. The cheapest Ford you can buy (Maverick) costs $22K and increased in price $1200 in 12 months...given what is happening, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the price go up another $1000 or so in the next 12 months. 

 

By the time the CE1 comes out in 2028, the landscape should be much different since the battery plants Ford is building now will be making cells. 

[ANTAUS]

Only feature I found interesting is the infotainment screen can be adjustable, cute feature....

[.I.]

11 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Base BEV Explorer “starts” at $48,500 (in US dollar), and we should assume Explorer Premium, with AWD, and perhaps larger battery will be significantly higher.  For now, let’s compare base Explorer.

 

If size is just under 4.5 meters in length as reported, that makes it slightly shorter than Honda CR-V or Toyota RAV4.  For comparison, RAV4 and CR-V start at $28,000 and $28.400 respectively, in US.  These are obviously very different vehicles than BEV Explorer, but suggest price needs to come down a bunch for mass adoption in my opinion.

Ford is walking to dead in Europe. Coming from sell a lot of Fiestas, Focusses and small (and affordable) cars, to sell only expensive EVs that have a base price of an Audi.   Ford is not a premium brand and can’t sell only expensive cars. Even Audi or BMW are keeping some ICE vehicles for those customers that don’t want or can’t pay more for EVs.      Ford is walking to a secure dead in Europe. 

[ice-capades]

37 minutes ago, .I. said:

Ford is walking to dead in Europe. Coming from sell a lot of Fiestas, Focusses and small (and affordable) cars, to sell only expensive EVs that have a base price of an Audi.   Ford is not a premium brand and can’t sell only expensive cars. Even Audi or BMW are keeping some ICE vehicles for those customers that don’t want or can’t pay more for EVs.      Ford is walking to a secure dead in Europe. 

 

And in the U.S. Ford's position to any customer not willing to spend $40,000+ for a new vehicle should buy a Maverick. Maverick is a fine vehicle but not everyone wants or needs a pickup truck of any kind, or an SUV. 

[silvrsvt]

43 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

 

And in the U.S. Ford's position to any customer not willing to spend $40,000+ for a new vehicle should buy a Maverick. Maverick is a fine vehicle but not everyone wants or needs a pickup truck of any kind, or an SUV. 

 

Removing personal preferences, SUVs and Trucks make up 80% of new car sales...

https://jalopnik.com/trucks-and-suvs-are-now-over-80-percent-of-new-car-sale-1848427797

[rmc523]

18 hours ago, bzcat said:

This should be a very good and successful replacement for Focus. You can see how Ford has really made this its own despite using the MEB platfrom. 

 

Remember last year Farley said more Ford nameplates will become sub-brands? We thought it was a trial balloon to see if Escape EV will be named Explorer Sport (or something like that) but he really actually mean he will use the Explorer name on a bunch of different models.

 

 

 

I think it was a mistake to call this outright "Explorer"

 

It should've been "Explorer ______", and kept "Explorer" for our Explorer.

[akirby]

6 hours ago, ice-capades said:

 

And in the U.S. Ford's position to any customer not willing to spend $40,000+ for a new vehicle should buy a Maverick. Maverick is a fine vehicle but not everyone wants or needs a pickup truck of any kind, or an SUV. 

Not quite.  Their position is we’re offering Maverick. Escape Ranger and Bronco Sport.  If you want something else at those price points you can shop other brands.

 

Honda has nothing to compete with Transit, Transit Connect, Mustang, F150, Super Duty, E350 and Expedition.  Ridgeline doesn’t have Maverick pricing or Ranger capabilities.  Koreans are in the same boat.  
 

Yes it sucks for a few customers but as a company strategy it makes perfect sense to focus on vehicles that generate passion and excitement because those dont require bargain basement pricing to sell.

[jpd80]

4 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

I think it was a mistake to call this outright "Explorer"

 

It should've been "Explorer ______", and kept "Explorer" for our Explorer.

Since this is a one product cycle vehicle, it should never have been given the Explorer name period. This is Ford knowing it has an uphill battle with justifying premium pricing - pulling another “Mustang Mach E” 

[AM222]

13 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Since this is a one product cycle vehicle, it should never have been given the Explorer name period. This is Ford knowing it has an uphill battle with justifying premium pricing - pulling another “Mustang Mach E” 

This EV transition is becoming a mess. I think part of this is Ford not adjusting its EV timetable (including Ford's own early ICE deadline) in Europe which were made before the pandemic and other factors like the RUS invasion etc. I have a feeling Ford's market share in Europe will continue to shrink as it continues to kill off its affordable volume models and replace them with expensive EV SUVs.

Ford could have made a better Fiesta with ICE and EV drivetrains like the Opel Corsa and Peugeot 208, the Stellantis twins that are doing better than the Fiesta in Europe.

The most inefficient EV is probably an SUV that never goes offroad. Extra weight + less aerodynamic body means larger battery pack and much higher price.

Edited March 23, 2023 by AM222

[jpd80]

58 minutes ago, AM222 said:

This EV transition is becoming a mess. I think part of this is Ford not adjusting its EV timetable (including Ford's own early ICE deadline) in Europe which were made before the pandemic and other factors like the RUS invasion etc. I have a feeling Ford's market share in Europe will continue to shrink as it continues to kill off its affordable volume models and replace them with expensive EV SUVs.

Ford could have made a better Fiesta with ICE and EV drivetrains like the Opel Corsa and Peugeot 208, the Stellantis twins that are doing better than the Fiesta in Europe.

The most inefficient EV is probably an SUV that never goes offroad. Extra weight + less aerodynamic body means larger battery pack and much higher price.

All of this started because manufacturers like Ford  could sell an SU/utility for considerably more than fiesta/focus hatchbacks. The use of MEB was an expedient that now finds Ford with a compact EV with under whelming power levels vs Tesla. I think that will be the major impediment to Ford charging premium prices, you must never disappoint high value buyers.

Edited March 23, 2023 by jpd80

[Broncofan7]

I think this can go here:

 

Ford Model e losing billions as it says EV unit should be seen as startup - Autoblog

 

Interesting.

[rmc523]

9 hours ago, AM222 said:

This EV transition is becoming a mess. I think part of this is Ford not adjusting its EV timetable (including Ford's own early ICE deadline) in Europe which were made before the pandemic and other factors like the RUS invasion etc. I have a feeling Ford's market share in Europe will continue to shrink as it continues to kill off its affordable volume models and replace them with expensive EV SUVs.

Ford could have made a better Fiesta with ICE and EV drivetrains like the Opel Corsa and Peugeot 208, the Stellantis twins that are doing better than the Fiesta in Europe.

The most inefficient EV is probably an SUV that never goes offroad. Extra weight + less aerodynamic body means larger battery pack and much higher price.

 

Well, you saw some of these videos.  Let's not pretend like this thing is the size of an Excursion.

[jpd80]

On 3/21/2023 at 12:21 PM, pffan1990 said:

 

My guess is that the European MEB-based EV will be 'Explorer Sport' and North American version will be 'Explorer xx' with a different second name. I doubt the Sport name would be used on the Oakville-made one if the EV would be 3-row seating, which is a given. Perhaps simply 'Explorer E' or something to denote that it's an EV while the ICE Explorer lives on for as long as Ford plans to keep making it. I'm sure Ford has a plan to further expand the 'Explorer' into a sub-brand as part of its Icon vehicles. Wouldn't be the first time as they did with Explorer Sport and Explorer Sport Trac in the past.

Inside whispers suggest Explorer and Explorer Sport will be the names of the two Cologne MEBs. If true I think it’s a mistake done to protect ICE Kuga/ Escape…..should have used Euro Ford names that catch buyer interest.

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, Broncofan7 said:

I think this can go here:

 

Ford Model e losing billions as it says EV unit should be seen as startup - Autoblog

 

Interesting.

And this is where breaking out costs this soon is a negative, it will be at least ten years before BEVs start truly paying their way.

 

Is Farley so deluded wit his boots and all embrace of Model E that he prematurely cuts back Ford Blue’s ability to generate those massive profits that Ford is counting on to pay for all the investment?

 

I just sense that Ford is gaslighting itself with unattainable goals just like Bill Ford did in the early 2000s saying 25% hybrids by 2005.

 

Some of us have seen this dance before, Ford goes in hard and then has to temper its objectives.

[pffan1990]

34 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Inside whispers suggest Explorer and Explorer Sport will be the names of the two Cologne MEBs. If true I think it’s a mistake done to protect ICE Kuga/ Escape…..should have used Euro Ford names that catch buyer interest.

 

My post you quoted sure didn't age well. lol ? That post was made before the reveal. While I like the new EV, I was shocked that the MEB-based EV shown will have the singular 'Explorer' name. I did read elsewhere after the reveal that the larger MEB-based, also to be made at Cologne next year, will be called 'Explorer Sport'. That's odd if they chose to do that. Seems like the small one that has been revealed would have the 'Sport' name attached and the larger yet-to-be-revealed be the singular named 'Explorer'. That is, if they wanted to even leverage the Explorer name for those two. But I now realize that Explorer was a mistake to use for those two in the European market. The upcoming Canadian-made Explorer EV could have been exported to Europe to give customers there the Explorer EV. I also agree with you about European Ford names would have been better used for the two MEB-based EVs.
 

31 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

And this is where breaking out costs this soon is a negative, it will be at least ten years before BEVs start truly paying their way.

 

Is Farley so deluded wit his boots and all embrace of Model E that he prematurely cuts back Ford Blue’s ability to generate those massive profits that Ford is counting on to pay for all the investment?

 

I just sense that Ford is gaslighting itself with unattainable goals just like Bill Ford did in the early 2000s saying 25% hybrids by 2005.

 

Some of us have seen this dance before, Ford goes in hard and then has to temper its objectives.

 

My guess is that Farley chose to do the new breakdown reporting format this early to provide transparency to the investors and please Wall Street. I can kinda see his thinking with the decision to do this now. We'll see how this new reporting format this early goes for Ford.

[akirby]

2 hours ago, pffan1990 said:

 

My post you quoted sure didn't age well. lol ? That post was made before the reveal. While I like the new EV, I was shocked that the MEB-based EV shown will have the singular 'Explorer' name. I did read elsewhere after the reveal that the larger MEB-based, also to be made at Cologne next year, will be called 'Explorer Sport'. That's odd if they chose to do that. Seems like the small one that has been revealed would have the 'Sport' name attached and the larger yet-to-be-revealed be the singular named 'Explorer'. That is, if they wanted to even leverage the Explorer name for those two. But I now realize that Explorer was a mistake to use for those two in the European market. The upcoming Canadian-made Explorer EV could have been exported to Europe to give customers there the Explorer EV. I also agree with you about European Ford names would have been better used for the two MEB-based EVs.
 

 

My guess is that Farley chose to do the new breakdown reporting format this early to provide transparency to the investors and please Wall Street. I can kinda see his thinking with the decision to do this now. We'll see how this new reporting format this early goes for Ford.

It will show the uphill battle with EVs due to huge infrastructure startup costs vs a healthy ICE business.  Otherwise it just gets blended together and it seems like Ford is struggling with lower ICE profits.  As long as they’re not playing games with the numbers it’s a good thing.

[silvrsvt]

13 hours ago, jpd80 said:

All of this started because manufacturers like Ford  could sell an SU/utility for considerably more than fiesta/focus hatchbacks. The use of MEB was an expedient that now finds Ford with a compact EV with under whelming power levels vs Tesla. I think that will be the major impediment to Ford charging premium prices, you must never disappoint high value buyers.

 

The Tesla doesn't offer a compact CUV...yet. The Model 3 is the closest thing in size to the Explorer EV.

3 hours ago, pffan1990 said:

My post you quoted sure didn't age well. lol ? That post was made before the reveal. While I like the new EV, I was shocked that the MEB-based EV shown will have the singular 'Explorer' name. I did read elsewhere after the reveal that the larger MEB-based, also to be made at Cologne next year, will be called 'Explorer Sport'. That's odd if they chose to do that. Seems like the small one that has been revealed would have the 'Sport' name attached and the larger yet-to-be-revealed be the singular named 'Explorer'. That is, if they wanted to even leverage the Explorer name for those two. But I now realize that Explorer was a mistake to use for those two in the European market. The upcoming Canadian-made Explorer EV could have been exported to Europe to give customers there the Explorer EV. I also agree with you about European Ford names would have been better used for the two MEB-based EVs.

 

I think the name plays to making Ford EU more American-like offering the Bronco and other vehicles (which will be nothing more then high price Halo vehicles)

 

I've heard the opposite about the Explorer sport for the EU-if anything its going to be coupe style CUV EV.

 

As for protecting the Kuga name in Europe-Ford is in a tough place-the Kuga/Escape is "old" and it doesn't make much sense to spend money developing fully refreshed ICE platform that can only be sold in the EU till 2035 and the EU wants 300 million EVs by 2030. So Ford decided to start making EVs sooner then later and not spend money on another refresh of the C platform. 

 

I don't think the larger ICE Explorer is that great of a seller in the EU since bigger CUVs aren't their thing like it is in North America. 

 

[tarheels23]

4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

And this is where breaking out costs this soon is a negative, it will be at least ten years before BEVs start truly paying their way.

 

Is Farley so deluded wit his boots and all embrace of Model E that he prematurely cuts back Ford Blue’s ability to generate those massive profits that Ford is counting on to pay for all the investment?

 

I just sense that Ford is gaslighting itself with unattainable goals just like Bill Ford did in the early 2000s saying 25% hybrids by 2005.

 

Some of us have seen this dance before, Ford goes in hard and then has to temper its objectives.

read today that Camaro may go away next year and maybe BEV next year...

[Dequindre]

On 3/21/2023 at 10:12 AM, ice-capades said:

European-Spec 2023 Explorer is an EV with Volkswagon Bones

It won't be sold in the United States

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/03/21/ford-explorer-electric-europe-official/

 

 

Ford enlisted the help of Volkswagen and repurposed a familiar nameplate to plant its stake in Europe's electric crossover segment. Built on the MEB platform, the European-market Explorer is an electric, city-friendly model that shares nothing but a name with the SUV sold here.

 

Let's address the elephant in the room: the model pictured in our gallery is not a replacement for the American-market Explorer, and Ford confirmed to Autoblog that it will not be sold in the United States. "The new electric Explorer is the European interpretation of an electric Explorer — made in Europe for Europe," a spokesperson told us. That's not a "maybe," a "we'll see," or a "who knows?" It's a "no."

 

Visually, the Explorer's front end is characterized by a grille-less design and an "EXPLORER"-branded piece of trim flanked by thin lights. It rides on a relatively long wheelbase, while its rear bumper features a piece of trim shaped like the one embedded into the front bumper. Full technical specifications haven't been released but Ford notes the crossover stretches roughly 177 inches from bumper to bumper. In comparison, the American-market Explorer (which is available in some European nations) measures approximately 199 inches long.

 

Something about the design reminds me of the Ford Explorer America Concept from 2004 (a good thing - that was an attractive design). 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Dequindre