Trader 10 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 On 3/21/2023 at 5:54 PM, bzcat said: This should be a very good and successful replacement for Focus. You can see how Ford has really made this its own despite using the MEB platfrom. Remember last year Farley said more Ford nameplates will become sub-brands? We thought it was a trial balloon to see if Escape EV will be named Explorer Sport (or something like that) but he really actually mean he will use the Explorer name on a bunch of different models. A Focus replacement that starts at $48,500 is an abject failure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 4 hours ago, silvrsvt said: The Tesla doesn't offer a compact CUV...yet. The Model 3 is the closest thing in size to the Explorer EV. Tesla Y is a compact BEV 4 hours ago, silvrsvt said: I think the name plays to making Ford EU more American-like offering the Bronco and other vehicles (which will be nothing more then high price Halo vehicles) I've heard the opposite about the Explorer sport for the EU-if anything its going to be coupe style CUV EV. As for protecting the Kuga name in Europe-Ford is in a tough place-the Kuga/Escape is "old" and it doesn't make much sense to spend money developing fully refreshed ICE platform that can only be sold in the EU till 2035 and the EU wants 300 million EVs by 2030. So Ford decided to start making EVs sooner then later and not spend money on another refresh of the C platform. I don't think the larger ICE Explorer is that great of a seller in the EU since bigger CUVs aren't their thing like it is in North America. I know why they did it but they’re getting rid of some ice vehicles a bit too quickly for my liking, reality will bite in a few years time… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 24, 2023 Author Share Posted March 24, 2023 8 hours ago, jpd80 said: Tesla Y is a compact BEV I forget that the Y and X look like a fat sedan and not a SUV, so I guess I've seen them, but they look too much like a 3 for me to notice. They don't offer a traditional 2 box CUV shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: I forget that the Y and X look like a fat sedan and not a SUV, so I guess I've seen them, but they look too much like a 3 for me to notice. They don't offer a traditional 2 box CUV shape. With respect, that’s probably why the Y has been a huge global success. I personally would never buy a Y buy I understand why many do and also get your point that US buyers would probably prefer something more conventional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: I forget that the Y and X look like a fat sedan and not a SUV, so I guess I've seen them, but they look too much like a 3 for me to notice. They don't offer a traditional 2 box CUV shape. Yes, not the same. Exploder EV is almost a foot shorter, so more compact than Model 3 or Y; at least based on Wikipedia, and who knows how accurate specs are. Other specs on battery and motor sizes seem specific, so maybe from reliable source. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Explorer_EV What Tesla does well is aerodynamics, with Cd estimates for their SUVs reported at 0.23 ~ 0.24. It will be interesting to see how “traditional 2 box CUV shape” will compare. If much higher, it will reduce highway range significantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 12 hours ago, tarheels23 said: read today that Camaro may go away next year and maybe BEV next year... Has been known for quite a while that Camaro would not be renewed in 2024, I think its sales are well down on Mustang, less than half? GM likes to do a lot of BEVs all at once but I wonder if that’s the best plan…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarheels23 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 29 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Has been known for quite a while that Camaro would not be renewed in 2024, I think its sales are well down on Mustang, less than half? GM likes to do a lot of BEVs all at once but I wonder if that’s the best plan…. thanks, I did not know. I read it concerning NASCAR and that in 2024 since it will still be produced they can run it but 2025 ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 24, 2023 Author Share Posted March 24, 2023 42 minutes ago, Rick73 said: What Tesla does well is aerodynamics, with Cd estimates for their SUVs reported at 0.23 ~ 0.24. It will be interesting to see how “traditional 2 box CUV shape” will compare. If much higher, it will reduce highway range significantly. The issue will the broader market accept it? Like I said before the X and Y look like blood sucking tick verison of S and 3 respectively. The give up cargo space of having a high roof between the C and D pillars. I think people would rather have the space and give up 25 or so miles or range if that was the case. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 (edited) 52 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: The issue will the broader market accept it? Like I said before the X and Y look like blood sucking tick verison of S and 3 respectively. The give up cargo space of having a high roof between the C and D pillars. I think people would rather have the space and give up 25 or so miles or range if that was the case. Last Year, Tesla Y global sales were 758,605 and combined with the 3, sales were over 1.2 million so there’s your broader appeal without having to think too much about those bloated sedan types. There is a place for traditional compact two box BEV utilities but no one seems in a hurry to build them, Ford’s BEV Explorer looks like a stretched Bronco Sport which hints at it original intent when planned for Oakville production…..that IMO is the template for North American buyers, something completely different to Tesla Y Edited March 24, 2023 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 24, 2023 Author Share Posted March 24, 2023 30 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Last Year, Tesla Y global sales were 758,605 and combined with the 3, sales were over 1.2 million so there’s your broader appeal without having to think too much about those bloated sedan types. There is a place for traditional two box BEV utilities but no one seems in a hurry to build them, Ford’s BEV Explorer looks like a stretched Bronco Sport which hints at it original intent when planned for Oakville production….. How many people are buying them because they are Telsas and not because there is an alternative? The Explorer EV is shorter than the Bronco Sport... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 (edited) 33 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: How many people are buying them because they are Telsas and not because there is an alternative? The Explorer EV is shorter than the Bronco Sport... No it’s not, Bronco Sport is 172” or thereabouts, the Explorer EV’s length is between BS and Escape A better question is how many premium brand sales have been lost to Tesla……..lots Edited March 24, 2023 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 24, 2023 Author Share Posted March 24, 2023 29 minutes ago, jpd80 said: No it’s not, Bronco Sport is 172” or thereabouts But it also doesn't matter..the BS isn't sold in the EU either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: But it also doesn't matter..the BS isn't sold in the EU either. This new BEV Explorer was originally scheduled to be the first MEB built at Oakville What does matter is how BEV Explorer pricing affects buyer enthusiasm……. Edited March 24, 2023 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.I. Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 December 2023, at a Ford dealer in Madrid: -Hi -Hi, I want to buy a new Explorer -Ok, which of them? The big, RWD, gasoline-hybrid, 3-row seats, American one or the small, Focus sized 5 passengers EV? - Oh! ? Is like someone at McDonald’s: -Welcome to MD! -Hi. I want a Big Mac -Wich of them? The triple beef with bacon, doble cheese, barbecue sauces or the small chicken hamburger with lettuce? -Oh! ? Who is the genius at Ford Marketing Department that decided this mess? ????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 2 hours ago, tarheels23 said: thanks, I did not know. I read it concerning NASCAR and that in 2024 since it will still be produced they can run it but 2025 ??? What difference does it make? They could run an oldsmobile alero for all it matters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 https://fordauthority.com/2023/03/all-new-ford-explorer-will-not-be-sold-alongside-sibling/ guess they won’t have to worry about the names being confusing anymore. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 19 hours ago, jpd80 said: Tesla Y is a compact BEV Y competes with Mach E. They are both D-segment vehicles in Europe. This Explorer EV is C-segment. Tesla 2 will compete with it but it is still at least a year away. Probably more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, bzcat said: Y competes with Mach E. They are both D-segment vehicles in Europe. Yeah and Focus was considered a mid sized vehicle there which in any other market are classed as compacts, I’ll admit that large compacts have replaced small mid-sized vehicles which is why Europe classes them as its D Segment Mach E would compete with Tesla Y if it’s production and sales was anywhere near Tesla Y, Ford can’t get the job done. Quote This Explorer EV is C-segment. Tesla 2 will compete with it but it is still at least a year away. Probably more. The Explorer EV was originally going to be an EV version of Bronco Sport but stretched 4”-5” to make it decent size compact. A similar size and shape is what we will see in 2027 Louisville in CE1 format. Tesla 2 is another generation ahead, having up to 50% cost savings over 3 & Y, lower cost structural batteries and more radical construction methods are coming. It’s all the hidden changes that are putting Tesla so far in front, what Ford needs to do is change the way it makes BEVs vs ICE and you’ll see that first with BOC but I suspect GE2 and CE1 will stick with body on skateboard, safety first. Edited March 24, 2023 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 43 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Yeah and Focus was considered a mid sized vehicle there which in any other market are classed as compacts, I’ll admit that large compacts have replaced small mid-sized vehicles which is why Europe classes them as its D Segment Mach E would compete with Tesla Y if it’s production and sales was anywhere near Tesla Y, Ford can’t get the job done. The Explorer EV was originally going to be an EV version of Bronco Sport but stretched 4”-5” to make it decent size compact. A similar size and shape is what we will see in 2027 Louisville in CE1 format. Tesla 2 is another generation ahead, having up to 50% cost savings over 3 & Y, lower cost structural batteries and more radical construction methods are coming. It’s all the hidden changes that are putting Tesla so far in front, what Ford needs to do is change the way it makes BEVs vs ICE and you’ll see that first with BOC but I suspect GE2 and CE1 will stick with body on skateboard, safety first. A stretched bronco sport would be quite popular I’d assume. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 For me, the big issues with Explorer EV is the high starting price, selling only the two top trims in the immediate future and the low power of the MEB drive motors. I don’t think that plays well for sales in Europe and looks like a dud to me…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, T-dubz said: A stretched bronco sport would be quite popular I’d assume. Absolutely, that would turn it into a vehicle that harks back to Gen 1 Escape squarer styling. Would make a good replacement when Escape finishes….. Edited March 24, 2023 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 10 hours ago, .I. said: December 2023, at a Ford dealer in Madrid: -Hi -Hi, I want to buy a new Explorer -Ok, which of them? The big, RWD, gasoline-hybrid, 3-row seats, American one or the small, Focus sized 5 passengers EV? - Oh! ? Is like someone at McDonald’s: -Welcome to MD! -Hi. I want a Big Mac -Wich of them? The triple beef with bacon, doble cheese, barbecue sauces or the small chicken hamburger with lettuce? -Oh! ? Who is the genius at Ford Marketing Department that decided this mess? ????? Dealer tells you that there’s an 18 month wait, you then decide to buy something else 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: For me, the big issues with Explorer EV is the high starting price, selling only the two top trims in the immediate future and the low power of the MEB drive motors. I don’t think that plays well for sales in Europe and looks like a dud to me…. What do you consider low power? Wikipedia may be completely off, but suggest single motor RWD will be 125 or optional 210 kW, and dual-motor AWD will be 250 kW combined. For a compact SUV, that seems plenty (assuming it’s close to correct). Agree though that starting price is too high for many buyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 2 hours ago, jpd80 said: For me, the big issues with Explorer EV is the high starting price, selling only the two top trims in the immediate future and the low power of the MEB drive motors. I don’t think that plays well for sales in Europe and looks like a dud to me…. I agree on the price. This seems to be a competitor to the Chevy bolt euv, which starts at 27k. The explorer ev is obviously better looking then the bolt, is slightly larger, and has better range, so a starting price in the 30-35k would seem reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Rick73 said: What do you consider low power? Wikipedia may be completely off, but suggest single motor RWD will be 125 or optional 210 kW, and dual-motor AWD will be 250 kW combined. For a compact SUV, that seems plenty (assuming it’s close to correct). Agree though that starting price is too high for many buyers. Explorer EV is priced similar to Tesla Y, the base RWD Y has 220 Kw to Explorer EV’s 125 Kw the AWD Y has 393 Kw to AWD Explorer’s 250 Kw Since these buyers are paying premium prices, there is an expectation of having premium power levels so I don’t see the 125 Kw RWD being up to the mark, sure there’s a 210 Kw option but in this company, that should be the standard RWD, and the 250 Kw AWD is well short of the mark… Edited March 25, 2023 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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