zipnzap Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 Not exactly a "cargo van" though.... https://electrek.co/2023/03/09/ford-reveals-electric-school-bus-based-e-transit-van/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 Time for Ford to team up with/buy Bluebird Bus and Ford/Bluebird would have an in-house capability to offer gas, diesel, propane and electric school buses. It would also increase sales to parents who would see the blue oval protecting and transporting their children! International/IC and Freightliner/Thomas do not have that advantage because they really don't make International and Freightliner BRAND pickup trucks and SUV's. Get it!? It's called marketing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Joe771476 said: Time for Ford to team up with/buy Bluebird Bus and Ford/Bluebird would have an in-house capability to offer gas, diesel, propane and electric school buses. It would also increase sales to parents who would see the blue oval protecting and transporting their children! International/IC and Freightliner/Thomas do not have that advantage because they really don't make International and Freightliner BRAND pickup trucks and SUV's. Get it!? It's called marketing! Some buyers avoid minivans solely because image is not cool. I’m not sure school buses would have a significant positive marketing affect for same reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 41 minutes ago, Rick73 said: I’m not sure school buses would have a significant positive marketing affect for same reason. Parents, policymakers, and others recognize the dangers posed to school age children by emissions from ICE powered school buses, especially diesel. Why We Need to Transition to Electric School Buses | Electric School Bus Initiative A good marketing campaign for E-Transit school bus package could bring Ford a lot of positive impressions from a lot of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 1 hour ago, rperez817 said: A good marketing campaign for E-Transit school bus package could bring Ford a lot of positive impressions from a lot of people. I believe school buses for the most part are a great fit for electrification. They are often driven at low speeds with lots of stops, routes are short and predictable, and there’s plenty of time for charging. It may be because I’m not easily influenced by marketing, but I just can’t believe average car, SUV and pickup buyers care all that much about who makes school bus chassis. On the flip side, a single bad accident could do a lot of damage to a brand, so there are unusual risks IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 (edited) As long as the mining countries/owners don't withhold the lithium and the batteries for their own agenda! All our eggs in one basket is not good. How much lithium is in the ground? The US Mint has been producing American Silver Eagles at 20 million per year since 1986 for about 35 years. Now you're lucky if they pump out half a million. Supposedly they can't acquire enough silver. According to a coin show TV host, silver demand is outpacing silver supply by 20 million ounces per month! Supposedly we're going to run out of silver by 2035. What else are we going to run out of? It won't last forever! Edited March 12, 2023 by Joe771476 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 19 hours ago, Joe771476 said: As long as the mining countries/owners don't withhold the lithium and the batteries for their own agenda! All our eggs in one basket is not good. How much lithium is in the ground? The US Mint has been producing American Silver Eagles at 20 million per year since 1986 for about 35 years. Now you're lucky if they pump out half a million. Supposedly they can't acquire enough silver. According to a coin show TV host, silver demand is outpacing silver supply by 20 million ounces per month! Supposedly we're going to run out of silver by 2035. What else are we going to run out of? It won't last forever! Uh how is this any different then oil? There is lithium in the US that can be mined/accessed. Not to mention other materials being used to make batteries that will be easier to be sourced. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 20 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Uh how is this any different then oil? There is lithium in the US that can be mined/accessed. Not to mention other materials being used to make batteries that will be easier to be sourced. Sure, the U.S. has vast reserves of many EV-related minerals and metals but, like silver (the U.S. has the 8th largest silver reserves in the world), will the environmentalist left allow those reserves to be mined? So far they are still being successful in impeding domestic mining operations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Gurgeh said: Sure, the U.S. has vast reserves of many EV-related minerals and metals but, like silver (the U.S. has the 8th largest silver reserves in the world), will the environmentalist left allow those reserves to be mined? So far they are still being successful in impeding domestic mining operations. Look at Fracking and what that is causing...crickets...if there is enough money behind it, it will happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: Look at Fracking and what that is causing...crickets...if there is enough money behind it, it will happen. Isn’t fracking the lesser evil because it allows greater natural gas to replace coal in electricity generation? Not defending fracking; I supported nuclear which stalled badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Report to Congress on the EPA Clean School Bus Program. Clean School Bus Program Second Report to Congress (EPA-420-R-23-002, February 2023) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Rick73 said: Isn’t fracking the lesser evil because it allows greater natural gas to replace coal in electricity generation? Not defending fracking; I supported nuclear which stalled badly. Your also extracting crude in some cases also, which was the point I was trying to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 On 3/13/2023 at 6:26 AM, Joe771476 said: As long as the mining countries/owners don't withhold the lithium and the batteries for their own agenda! All our eggs in one basket is not good. How much lithium is in the ground? The US Mint has been producing American Silver Eagles at 20 million per year since 1986 for about 35 years. Now you're lucky if they pump out half a million. Supposedly they can't acquire enough silver. According to a coin show TV host, silver demand is outpacing silver supply by 20 million ounces per month! Supposedly we're going to run out of silver by 2035. What else are we going to run out of? It won't last forever! Most of the processed Chinese lithium actually comes from Australia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 Quote Time for Ford to team up with/buy Bluebird Bus and Ford/Bluebird would have an in-house capability to offer gas, diesel, propane and electric school buses. It would also increase sales to parents who would see the blue oval protecting and transporting their children! International/IC and Freightliner/Thomas do not have that advantage because they really don't make International and Freightliner BRAND pickup trucks and SUV's. Get it!? It's called marketing! There is competition among the school bus manufacturers and it is not certain that Ford has the best chance. Also parents don't have that kind of influence I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted May 7, 2023 Share Posted May 7, 2023 Ford participated in the Advanced Clean Transportation Expo in Anaheim, California last week, where they announced some more details about its E-Transit based school bus. Car and Driver had a great article summarizing both E-Transit based school bus as well as other manufacturers in the all-electric school bus market. You're About to See Way More Electric School Buses—Here's Why (caranddriver.com) Highlights for E-Transit based school bus. The electric bus starts life as an E-Transit T-350 chassis cab that uses a 125.0-kWh lithium-ion battery that provides around 120 miles of range A 180-mile extended-range model will also be available Ford's partner Collins installs its Type A School Bus Prep package onto the E-Transit's rails. The finished bus can carry up to 12 seated passengers, or eight with two wheelchairs, and includes a number of features found on standard school buses, like safety glass and a dual-note horn Pro Power Onboard, which can power electronic devices from the EV's battery, is a popular feature of the F-150 Lightning. It is not currently available to order on the bus, but Ford Pro brand manager for buses/vans Christian Kreipke said Ford is scrambling to get it implemented. "The main [customer request] is to be able to have jacks so the kids can plug in their laptop, iPhone, or whatever. One of the ways you can achieve that is with Pro Power Onboard." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisgb Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 On 3/26/2023 at 1:29 PM, Donny said: There is competition among the school bus manufacturers and it is not certain that Ford has the best chance. Also parents don't have that kind of influence I think. Most people aren't as automotively literate as we are on the forum. I bet if you asked the the parents what kind of bus picks up their kids, the majority would say, "A yellow one" or "First Student," etc. I would think that residual sales of Ford's retail products resulting from school bus chassis' branding is pretty small. I believe (hope!) most people are paying more attention to the Safe Fleet® deployed stop arm than the name on the grille. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 58 minutes ago, Chrisgb said: I bet if you asked the the parents what kind of bus picks up their kids, the majority would say, "A yellow one" or "First Student," etc. A lot of parents would also respond "a polluting one". As a result, there's a lot of parental support for the Electric School Bus Initiative mentioned earlier in this topic. Vendors involved in electric school buses, including Ford, have a great marketing and PR opportunity here to make a positive impression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 13 hours ago, rperez817 said: You're About to See Way More Electric School Buses—Here's Why (caranddriver.com) Highlights for E-Transit based school bus. The electric bus starts life as an E-Transit T-350 chassis cab that uses a 125.0-kWh lithium-ion battery that provides around 120 miles of range A 180-mile extended-range model will also be available Recent speculation or reports that Ford would soon announce a longer-range E-Transit is starting to look real. To achieve the previously-mentioned 186 miles of range (300 kilometers), some suggested E-Transit would get the Mustang’s extended range 91 kWh battery pack, but that’s probably not enough capacity to increase range from 126 to 186 miles, given existing battery is 68 kWh. Unless of course Ford increased energy efficiency significantly and that’s not likely. https://fordauthority.com/2023/05/extended-range-ford-e-transit-to-be-revealed-next-week/ Mention above of 125 kWh would make battery capacity about the right size, given van would weigh more and therefore require more energy per mile. Also, the maximum 126-mile range was for low-roof vans, so not applicable to many commercial applications. If 125 kWh is correct, that would make range of a high-roof Transit more practical for Amazon and similar uses. Ford may also be trying to remain competitive with new electric Sprinter. Regarding Car and Driver article, the last paragraph on funding of electric school buses implies that when tax payers pay for nearly half the cost, then electric school buses are a bargain, as if government money grows on trees. In my opinion future success of BEVs depends on being cost competitive, and this mindset doesn’t help. In some ways it’s counterproductive because it justifies opposition to BEVs in general. " If you can get $60,000 for this bus, for example, in California, and another $40,000 from the IRA, you're looking at $100,000 off a $225,000 bus," he said. "You can get down pretty close to price parity just with those two things. And there's no shortage of any of that money." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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