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Project T3 (Trust The Truck) EV coming 2025


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6 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Farley stated inferentially in the 'Fireside Chat' that the purpose of the additional production capacity for EVs is not to maintain market share, but to grow market share. He's also indicated previously and again here that the product(s) from BOC will be quite different from the current Lightning. It all sounds like Farley intends to continue 'classic' Lightning production in Michigan (perhaps for Ford Pro) and plans to grow sales and market share with BOC. Ford will build ICE F Series as long as the market exists and the government allows. It follows that the added Lightning capacity coming later this year isn't planned for short term manufacturing, but planned for continued future output.

 

Farley has also given hints about T3 styling with comments in the Fireside Chat about what Ford have learned about improving range with better aero, etc.. It's there to be read... and dovetails with ExplorerDude's comments.

 

Yep... sounds like Lightning will stay beyond the launch of T3. Farley has hinted that several times now.

 

I have no doubt the new one (Thunder?) will push the envelope on aero and efficiency. 

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8 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

Farley stated inferentially in the 'Fireside Chat' that the purpose of the additional production capacity for EVs is not to maintain market share, but to grow market share. He's also indicated previously and again here that the product(s) from BOC will be quite different from the current Lightning. It all sounds like Farley intends to continue 'classic' Lightning production in Michigan (perhaps for Ford Pro) and plans to grow sales and market share with BOC. Ford will build ICE F Series as long as the market exists and the government allows. It follows that the added Lightning capacity coming later this year isn't planned for short term manufacturing, but planned for continued future output.

This is the same catch phrase as applied to current Lightning, it’s intended to grow sales, not replace them 

Yes the new Gen 2 Lightning will be a simpler design that takes advantage of ground up development for

electric but let’s not loose sight of Ford’s desire to transition its business to electric vehicles. The key here

is launching Lightning to grow its own buyer base that looks clearly different to ICE F Series buyers.

Read between the lines and you’ll see that Ford really doesn’t know how quickly the change will happen 

but it will be ready to build as many trucks as buyers need.

 

8 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

Farley has also given hints about T3 styling with comments in the Fireside Chat about what Ford have learned about improving range with better aero, etc.. It's there to be read... and dovetails with ExplorerDude's comments.

He also hinted previously at a truck that costs $6,000 less but didn’t clarify that as cost saving to Ford or lower sale price.

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18 hours ago, jpd80 said:

This is the same catch phrase as applied to current Lightning, it’s intended to grow sales, not replace them 

Yes the new Gen 2 Lightning will be a simpler design that takes advantage of ground up development for

electric but let’s not loose sight of Ford’s desire to transition its business to electric vehicles. The key here

is launching Lightning to grow its own buyer base that looks clearly different to ICE F Series buyers.

Read between the lines and you’ll see that Ford really doesn’t know how quickly the change will happen 

but it will be ready to build as many trucks as buyers need.

 

He also hinted previously at a truck that costs $6,000 less but didn’t clarify that as cost saving to Ford or lower sale price.

As he talks about 500,000 a year-granted a long term projection- how much comes out of F 150/250- and for  that matter 350-550?  Also I would  think  E cut away has to be a target?  As well as 250/350 Transit?  He talks a lot about "aero" so how do you eliminate a hood and keep it "aero"? And if it is a "cab forward", probably no need for any kind of tilt cab.?????

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On 3/25/2023 at 12:08 PM, Captainp4 said:

It's hilarious to me that Farley is following Tesla's playbook page by page, down to a youtube live stream that starts way later than expected, and some still won't admit Tesla is driving all of this. But, great to see F making some more progress. Personally hope they don't go too far with the futuristic truck deal, I want a normal looking BEV Superduty sometime in the future.. not something that looks like the cybertruck.

To be fair, the argument could be made that every mainstream car brand in the world took a page from Ford's playbook by using mass production to produce more affordable cars. Brands take inspiration from other brands, nothing wrong with that. 

 

As for the styling thing, it sounds like t3 will be separate from the f-150 lightning. I wouldn't be surprised if Ford offered a more conventional looking electric truck alongside a more radical looking truck of similar size and price. That's how I'd do it, appeal to both crowds. 

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1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

To be fair, the argument could be made that every mainstream car brand in the world took a page from Ford's playbook by using mass production to produce more affordable cars. Brands take inspiration from other brands, nothing wrong with that. 

 

As for the styling thing, it sounds like t3 will be separate from the f-150 lightning. I wouldn't be surprised if Ford offered a more conventional looking electric truck alongside a more radical looking truck of similar size and price. That's how I'd do it, appeal to both crowds. 



Completely fair, and nothing wrong at all with taking notes from someone that is doing something better or more efficiently.

That approach sounds good for the consumer, give everyone an option. I wonder how it looks for the bottom line.. but probably not much difference if doing huge volumes and utilizing the same parts under the skin.

 

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5 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

As he talks about 500,000 a year-granted a long term projection- how much comes out of F 150/250- and for  that matter 350-550?  Also I would  think  E cut away has to be a target?  As well as 250/350 Transit?  He talks a lot about "aero" so how do you eliminate a hood and keep it "aero"? And if it is a "cab forward", probably no need for any kind of tilt cab.?????

With the minimum amount of words, Farley has thrown up the idea that Lightning will be different enough for people to start asking those kinds of what if questions, it’s deliberate to stir up discussion and interest.

 

The smart money ison a design with a shorter hood like the Silverado but this is where Ford needs to be careful because the thing that’s drawing in new buyers is that rugged square truck line - many love and want that so perhaps a gentle evolution in proportions is what we’ll see. 
 

Lightning seems to be all out new buyers and growing sales at the moment, I think transitioning ICE F Series buyers is gong to be a longer term deal and maybe that will be more of a new reimagined BEV Super Duty role.

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1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

To be fair, the argument could be made that every mainstream car brand in the world took a page from Ford's playbook by using mass production to produce more affordable cars. Brands take inspiration from other brands, nothing wrong with that. 

 

As for the styling thing, it sounds like t3 will be separate from the f-150 lightning. I wouldn't be surprised if Ford offered a more conventional looking electric truck alongside a more radical looking truck of similar size and price. That's how I'd do it, appeal to both crowds. 

As I understand Ford’s plan, there’s TE1 Truck BEV and T3 seems to be a subset of that.

I assume that the BEV Expedition is also under TE1 as well

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On 3/24/2023 at 7:18 PM, Rick73 said:

As pickup volume transitions from ICE to BEV, I wonder how Ford will make T3 sales add to F-150’s in order to remain most popular vehicle overall.  Will it be completely different yet be called F-150 Lightning?  Or F-150 “something”?

 

I found it interesting that new truck was compared in video to Millennium Falcon with a porch.  Maybe Ford Falcon Ranchero will make a comeback.  Or likely not.

 

I’m no Star Wars expert, but wasn’t the Millennium Falcon a bucket of bolts?  In the end it always delivered, but not without its share of problems and drama.  Just found that reference amusing. 

 

Ford's current breakdown may shed some light on this......currently they group ALL F-series together.  On the sales charts, "F-series" = F-150 + Lightning + Super Duty.

 

F-150 Lightning, while it appears on the chart, is just broken out as notation, and not a separate line item.  In other words, the Lightning line item is not in addition to the F-series line item, Lightning's figure is included in F-series.  They just call out Lightning to show the sales performance of it.  Same with Transit/E-Transit.

 

I'd imagine down the road, they'd do the same thing with any new version of Lightning, at least until they even out.

 

22 hours ago, jpd80 said:

With the minimum amount of words, Farley has thrown up the idea that Lightning will be different enough for people to start asking those kinds of what if questions, it’s deliberate to stir up discussion and interest.

 

The smart money ison a design with a shorter hood like the Silverado but this is where Ford needs to be careful because the thing that’s drawing in new buyers is that rugged square truck line - many love and want that so perhaps a gentle evolution in proportions is what we’ll see. 
 

Lightning seems to be all out new buyers and growing sales at the moment, I think transitioning ICE F Series buyers is gong to be a longer term deal and maybe that will be more of a new reimagined BEV Super Duty role.

 

I can definitely see them retaining the current Lightning for some time as a "Lightning classic" if you will - but with improved tech over the years - to appeal to more traditional buyers, while the T3 version will be more pure lifestyle/futuristic.

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32 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

I can definitely see them retaining the current Lightning for some time as a "Lightning classic" if you will - but with improved tech over the years - to appeal to more traditional buyers, while the T3 version will be more pure lifestyle/futuristic.


I like the suggestion from earlier in the thread about retaining Lightning for fleet/work truck buyers. 

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41 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

Ford's current breakdown may shed some light on this......currently they group ALL F-series together.  On the sales charts, "F-series" = F-150 + Lightning + Super Duty.

 

F-150 Lightning, while it appears on the chart, is just broken out as notation, and not a separate line item.  In other words, the Lightning line item is not in addition to the F-series line item, Lightning's figure is included in F-series.  They just call out Lightning to show the sales performance of it.  Same with Transit/E-Transit.

 

I'd imagine down the road, they'd do the same thing with any new version of Lightning, at least until they even out.

 

 

I can definitely see them retaining the current Lightning for some time as a "Lightning classic" if you will - but with improved tech over the years - to appeal to more traditional buyers, while the T3 version will be more pure lifestyle/futuristic.

 

I see it more as Lightning will continue to be EV version of ICE F-150, whereas T3 project is on a different clean sheet BEV platform that is not related to ICE F-150.

 

I think Ford will continue update Lightning with each new ICE F-150 update. And T3, which retaining the F-series branding, will probably be on its own separate model timeline. Like how Super Duty is basically its own model but still part of the F-series sub-brand. 

 

And I don't think "lifestyle" is the right word to describe T3. It's probably aimed at retail buyers but so are ICE F-150 once fleet sales switches mostly to EV. 

Edited by bzcat
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29 minutes ago, bzcat said:

 

I see it more as Lightning will continue to be EV version of ICE F-150, whereas T3 project is on a different clean sheet BEV platform that is not related to ICE F-150.

 

I think Ford will continue update Lightning with each new ICE F-150 update. And T3, which retaining the F-series branding, will probably be on its own separate model timeline. Like how Super Duty is basically its own model but still part of the F-series sub-brand. 

 

And I don't think "lifestyle" is the right word to describe T3. Once fleet sales switches mostly to EV, choosing ICE will be an owner's social signaling choice, in another word, a "lifestyle" vehicle in the sense you are using the word. So in the long run, ICE F-150 will be the one that "lifestyle" buyers will choose. 

 

But at what point does it not make any sense to keep the ICE F-150 around? I can see the SD staying ICE due to the nature of its job, but by 2035 or 2040, I don't think the ICE F-150 will have an excuse. 

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2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

But at what point does it not make any sense to keep the ICE F-150 around? I can see the SD staying ICE due to the nature of its job, but by 2035 or 2040, I don't think the ICE F-150 will have an excuse. 

 Over the next ten years, the profile of truck buyers is going to change and Ford must change with that. Perhaps some form of rationalisation with ICE F150  tucked under Super Duty program but with the F150’s lighter frame and IFS. Not explaining that properly but thinking that as buyers begin moving to BEV, Ford will need to down balance the current nine shifts across three plants.

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Things can change a lot in 10 years.  And sometimes they don’t.  Have F-150 and SD really changed that much over 10 years, aside from a little more power and additional gears, etc.?  Functionally, they are fairly similar in most ways that matter.

 

I have difficult time seeing demand for ICE pickups from Ford, GM, and Stellantis disappearing completely over next 10 ~ 15 years.

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1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

Things can change a lot in 10 years.  And sometimes they don’t.  Have F-150 and SD really changed that much over 10 years, aside from a little more power and additional gears, etc.?  Functionally, they are fairly similar in most ways that matter.

 

I have difficult time seeing demand for ICE pickups from Ford, GM, and Stellantis disappearing completely over next 10 ~ 15 years.

Valid points, Ford and GM are gearing up for expected mass adoption of BEVs but no one can tell for sure what the actual timeline will be.

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1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

I have difficult time seeing demand for ICE pickups from Ford, GM, and Stellantis disappearing completely over next 10 ~ 15 years.


Easy-government mandates…many states are already requiring BEV only new car sales starting in 2035. 

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44 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:


Easy-government mandates…many states are already requiring BEV only new car sales starting in 2035. 

Yes and long before those regulations come into play, we’re going to see some serious reconfiguration of Ford’s three (four?) existing main F Series plants. It will be interesting to see how Ford manages that change and the relationship with UAW as shifts start to go away

Edited by jpd80
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1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:


Easy-government mandates…many states are already requiring BEV only new car sales starting in 2035. 


Yes of course, that goes without saying, but to me demand means buyers wanting them, not that a government will prohibit.  Without Federal government involvement, conservative states won’t necessarily adopt California ideology.  And I expect at some point even they will be challenged in court, and who knows what direction that may take. 
 

The entire issue has potential to become an even bigger mess.  I see some parallel with tobacco industry, where we know it’s bad for you, and nobody should smoke, but the legal system hasn’t been able to prohibit smoking outright.  And to some degree also similar to alcohol.  It was prohibited yet we still have it.  Just because something is not a good idea doesn’t mean it will go away completely.

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1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

Yes of course, that goes without saying, but to me demand means buyers wanting them

 

Based on the huge backlog of orders for the current F-150 Lightning, demand is off the scale by that definition. Buyers certainly want well-designed BEV pickup trucks.

 

The future success of the T3 program along with other initiatives at Ford Model e should provide for a full lineup of BEV pickup trucks from compact (Maverick like) to Super Duty by the end of the decade from Ford.

 

 

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12 hours ago, jpd80 said:

It will be interesting to see how Ford manages that change and the relationship with UAW as shifts start to go away

 

I think the relationship between the OEMs (not just Ford) and the UAW is going to be a shitshow. The newly elected president of the UAW is sounding a very antagonistic tone towards the OEMs, saying membership should ready for "war" against the "one and only true enemy". Fun times coming:  

Quote

DETROIT — UAW President Shawn Fain struck a defiant tone in his inaugural address to members on the first day of the union's special bargaining convention, laying the groundwork for potentially contentious contract talks with the Detroit 3 automakers this year.

"We're here to come together to ready ourselves for the war against the one and only true enemy: multibillion dollar corporations and employers who refuse to give our members their fair share," Fain said to members. "It's a new day in the UAW."

Fain was sworn in as the UAW's fifth president in five years 

 

https://www.autonews.com/executives/uaw-president-shawn-fain-prepares-war-against-corporations

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2 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

I think the relationship between the OEMs (not just Ford) and the UAW is going to be a shitshow. The newly elected president of the UAW is sounding a very antagonistic tone towards the OEMs, saying membership should ready for "war" against the "one and only true enemy". Fun times coming:  

 

https://www.autonews.com/executives/uaw-president-shawn-fain-prepares-war-against-corporations

 

Should be interesting how that all shakes out, given how tight the labor market is. Having five presidents in five years is also very telling for the UAW. They also might want to learn that cutting your nose off to spite your face isn't the best option either...so it might be all just bluster. 

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2 hours ago, Harley Lover said:

 

I think the relationship between the OEMs (not just Ford) and the UAW is going to be a shitshow. The newly elected president of the UAW is sounding a very antagonistic tone towards the OEMs, saying membership should ready for "war" against the "one and only true enemy". Fun times coming:  

 

https://www.autonews.com/executives/uaw-president-shawn-fain-prepares-war-against-corporations


If a union leader says everything is fine and the contracts are fine they would no longer be needed (or wanted).

 

Smart ones understand the company’s limitations and work within those to get the best deal for the workers.  Sometimes they put on a show to make it seem more adversarial than it really is.

 

Stupid ones draw lines in the sand that the company can’t meet and that does nobody any good.

 

And while we’re on the subject why do contracts only last 2 or 3 years?  Because it keeps the union leaders and company negotiators employed.

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22 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


I like the suggestion from earlier in the thread about retaining Lightning for fleet/work truck buyers. 

 

Agreed - they'll be the ones most resistant and/or least needing change.

 

22 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

But at what point does it not make any sense to keep the ICE F-150 around? I can see the SD staying ICE due to the nature of its job, but by 2035 or 2040, I don't think the ICE F-150 will have an excuse. 

 

Well his point was that it's more closely follow ICE as it fades away.

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4 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Should be interesting how that all shakes out, given how tight the labor market is. Having five presidents in five years is also very telling for the UAW. They also might want to learn that cutting your nose off to spite your face isn't the best option either...so it might be all just bluster. 

I am a pro-union, and pro-little guy, but I hope they are looking for the best and sometimes the best is not the most money.

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