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Project T3 (Trust The Truck) EV coming 2025


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56 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

It won’t be resistance for stupid mouth-breather reasons, it will be necessity until range limitations are figured out.

 

Sure, but your suggestion was regarding Lightning remaining for fleet/work buyers - a point which wouldn't match your range limitations comment.

 

I understand that concern, but I was meaning more form-factor.  I.e. companies may prefer the "tried and true" shape of a regular truck vs. whatever shape T3 may be.

 

 

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

Sure, but your suggestion was regarding Lightning remaining for fleet/work buyers - a point which wouldn't match your range limitations comment.

 

I understand that concern, but I was meaning more form-factor.  I.e. companies may prefer the "tried and true" shape of a regular truck vs. whatever shape T3 may be.

 

 


I don’t see maximizing available space being a priority for T3. I see it as being more of the Rivian RT1 in that there’s a lot of cool gadgets and, frankly, gimmicks with the looks more in line of the Silverado EV. It’s proven Lightning can work in its current form factor based on history now the focus needs to be making the drivetrain better and more efficient with the ability to charge faster. 
 

We’re kind of talking in circles

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22 hours ago, silvrsvt said:


Easy-government mandates…many states are already requiring BEV only new car sales starting in 2035. 

 

Yes, but Governments change on a regular basis, so no guarantee the same BEV requirements will be in force  in 10 years.

 

Only a couple of years ago, our Government paid rebates to install gas furnaces, now they are paying to convert from furnaces to electric heat pumps. Therefore, no guarantee that Governments won't  enact similar changes to BEV's, especially if better technological solutions to ICE are available in 10 yrs.

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31 minutes ago, Rangers09 said:

Only a couple of years ago, our Government paid rebates to install gas furnaces, now they are paying to convert from furnaces to electric heat pumps. Therefore, no guarantee that Governments won't  enact similar changes to BEV's, especially if better technological solutions to ICE are available in 10 yrs.

 

The point is there isn't when it comes to ICE..and auto manufactures are already set down the path of going BEVs going forward. It makes no sense to keep changing regulations and the manufactures have already told the government in the past that it would be a waste to change again. Constantly changing what horse your using mid race is a good way to lose or go out of business. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The point is there isn't when it comes to ICE..and auto manufactures are already set down the path of going BEVs going forward. It makes no sense to keep changing regulations and the manufactures have already told the government in the past that it would be a waste to change again. Constantly changing what horse your using mid race is a good way to lose or go out of business. 

 

 

 

Not arguing your point on changing in mid stream.  But wishful thinking I'm afraid.  Fortunately when enough people say this is BS, sometimes government puts its finger in the air and senses a change in wind direction.  We can only hope for change at a measured and sensible rate that considers all the consequences globally as well as in our own backyard.  

Didn't everyone expect Toyota to go full bore on electrics when "Mr Yota" retired?. I thought I saw something the other day that the new chief said it will take ALL options to be successful.

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2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


I don’t see maximizing available space being a priority for T3. I see it as being more of the Rivian RT1 in that there’s a lot of cool gadgets and, frankly, gimmicks with the looks more in line of the Silverado EV. It’s proven Lightning can work in its current form factor based on history now the focus needs to be making the drivetrain better and more efficient with the ability to charge faster. 
 

We’re kind of talking in circles

 

Yup, I think we're saying the same thing.

 

Give Lightning battery/motor improvements but keep the existing form factor.

Give T3 the "latest and greatest" and be more "futuristic"/"cool" with it.

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Electrification and hybridization is going to literally change the "face" of trucks- With no big IC motor to cool there's no need for a tall radiator and long hood to cover a big IC engine. In fact, hardly any need for a hood at all- Batteries and electric motors can neatly fill the unused space further back in the chassis so a lower cab with little or no hood will be needed. Of course, for those who need to make up for inadequacies elsewhere, a few makers will keep tall, long, and empty hoods- GM already has a good start on this!

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2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The point is there isn't when it comes to ICE..and auto manufactures are already set down the path of going BEVs going forward. It makes no sense to keep changing regulations and the manufactures have already told the government in the past that it would be a waste to change again. Constantly changing what horse your using mid race is a good way to lose or go out of business. 

 

 


It’s not their money government is spending.  I doubt they care as much about Ford’s profitability as you imply above.

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1 hour ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Electrification and hybridization is going to literally change the "face" of trucks- With no big IC motor to cool there's no need for a tall radiator and long hood to cover a big IC engine. In fact, hardly any need for a hood at all- Batteries and electric motors can neatly fill the unused space further back in the chassis so a lower cab with little or no hood will be needed. Of course, for those who need to make up for inadequacies elsewhere, a few makers will keep tall, long, and empty hoods- GM already has a good start on this!

 

You can use the front for storage.  The local Ford Dealer had a Lightning parked outside at our summer festival last year.  The Frunk was a big hit.

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2 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

Not arguing your point on changing in mid stream.  But wishful thinking I'm afraid.  Fortunately when enough people say this is BS, sometimes government puts its finger in the air and senses a change in wind direction.  We can only hope for change at a measured and sensible rate that considers all the consequences globally as well as in our own backyard.  

Didn't everyone expect Toyota to go full bore on electrics when "Mr Yota" retired?. I thought I saw something the other day that the new chief said it will take ALL options to be successful.


Well stated.  Looking back at similar issues, it seems to me that resistance to many endeavors does not materialize until costs become real, as resulting in higher prices, or taxes, or having to cancel  other projects, etc.  That’s when the majority take notice and say it’s BS.  What may or may not happen in 10 years or longer people too often ignore for now.
 

When US landed on the moon in the late 60s, many expected we would continue to go there frequently and build a base.  High costs put an end to those dreams quickly.

 

Nuclear power in the name of energy independence encountered similar resistance after an accident drove costs much higher, in addition to fears.

 

It may not happen with BEVs at all, but assuming that there may not be an unexpected obstacle that changes acceptance is not wise from a business point of view in my opinion.  Slow or gradual transition is less risky.

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3 hours ago, mackinaw said:

You can use the front for storage.  The local Ford Dealer had a Lightning parked outside at our summer festival last year.  The Frunk was a big hit.

 

The versatility of F-150 Lightning's frunk for work or leisure is a huge selling point for the truck. Wouldn't be surprised if the future T3 truck includes a similar power operated frunk.

 

2022_Ford_F-150_Lightning_Pro_1.jpg

 

F-150-Lightning_Lariat_Mega-Power-Frunk_

 

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5 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Electrification and hybridization is going to literally change the "face" of trucks- With no big IC motor to cool there's no need for a tall radiator and long hood to cover a big IC engine. In fact, hardly any need for a hood at all- Batteries and electric motors can neatly fill the unused space further back in the chassis so a lower cab with little or no hood will be needed. Of course, for those who need to make up for inadequacies elsewhere, a few makers will keep tall, long, and empty hoods- GM already has a good start on this!

5 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Electrification and hybridization is going to literally change the "face" of trucks- With no big IC motor to cool there's no need for a tall radiator and long hood to cover a big IC engine. In fact, hardly any need for a hood at all- Batteries and electric motors can neatly fill the unused space further back in the chassis so a lower cab with little or no hood will be needed. Of course, for those who need to make up for inadequacies elsewhere, a few makers will keep tall, long, and empty hoods- GM already has a good start on this!

I agree with you, but I think traditional consumers tend to resist unconventional aesthetics. Design is like car pricing. Everyone says they want cheap cars, but what they're asking for are cars with the latest tech and materials for only 20k. 

 

Everyone says they want fresh, bold, and unique designs, but what happens when brands actually make them? People don't buy them because they're "ugly". There appears to be a decent amount of demand for ev trucks to be ground up EVs with radical styling and features. But I could also see this alienating a ton of buyers if executed poorly.

 

When it comes to different, there's "I gotta have it" kinds of different, like the rivian r1t or hummer EVs. Then there's "Ew, what is that" kinds of different like the cybertruck. I hope Ford nails it with the former. 

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6 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

The point is there isn't when it comes to ICE..and auto manufactures are already set down the path of going BEVs going forward. It makes no sense to keep changing regulations and the manufactures have already told the government in the past that it would be a waste to change again. Constantly changing what horse your using mid race is a good way to lose or go out of business. 

 

 

 

Yes, auto manufacturers are embracing BEV's, but the market has a long way to go before reaching BEV critical mass. Manufacturers are making huge investments, but the number of purchasers and even those considering BEV's is well below 50%. Many are encouraged to purchase a BEV due to Govt rebates, to offset some of the cost, so what happens to future sales, if rebates were removed and Govt investments in charging stations are cancelled. I am one of those purchasing a PHEV only because of the Govt rebates, as they are paying 13% of the capital cost. No Govt rebates, we would be purchasing an ICE Escape.

 

The industry may request Govt not to change direction, but all it takes is a shift in voter preference and politicians will change in a heartbeat. History has proved this many times, with various Govt. I'm sure the US is no different.

 

The manufacturers, especially Ford, have embraced this Govt driven bandwagon, so if the Govt changes direction, I concur many manufacturers, including Ford, could well be in financial difficulty.

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10 hours ago, Rangers09 said:

The industry may request Govt not to change direction, but all it takes is a shift in voter preference and politicians will change in a heartbeat. History has proved this many times, with various Govt. I'm sure the US is no different.

 

The manufacturers, especially Ford, have embraced this Govt driven bandwagon, so if the Govt changes direction, I concur many manufacturers, including Ford, could well be in financial difficulty.


Lets use the last administration as an example:

Major Automakers Choose Not To Back Trump Administration On Fuel Economy Standards Rollback

 

That was from 2020

The point is the ball is rolling downhill and given the investment that auto makers are doing, they are going down that path and will push back against changes in the future because of the investment they are currently doing. Not to mention that 2/3 of the world is going BEV in 2030-2035. Just in China alone, the largest auto market in the world, 40% of new car sales have to BEVs in 2030. Ford is a world wide company and that is going to influence what is done here because it is stupid to make completely different products for each market from a business case. 


Automakers can currently keep ICE/PHEVs for another 10-12 years and current investment that Ford has can keep that going, but Ford has to be focused on what is going on 5-10 years down the road, thus the EV investments

 

I think many of you are just sticking your fingers in your ears and humming so you don't hear what is being said and done and are assuming that BEVs are going to be a failure...when the die has been cast already. 

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1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I think many of you are just sticking your fingers in your ears and humming so you don't hear what is being said and done and are assuming that BEVs are going to be a failure...


Or hoping they’ll fail because they don’t like them.

 

On the other hand you have folks who think the transition will happen far faster than is practical and ignoring or downplaying the very real challenges that have yet to be solved.  So it would be great if both sides could back off and just agree that BEVs are here to stay, they work great for some buyers today and not at all for others.  A lot of the issues will be solved for most use cases with new generation batteries and more/faster public chargers along with grid improvements over the next 10-20 years.  Some like heavy duty hauling and towing will require longer and/or other solutions.

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55 minutes ago, akirby said:


Or hoping they’ll fail because they don’t like them.

 

On the other hand you have folks who think the transition will happen far faster than is practical and ignoring or downplaying the very real challenges that have yet to be solved.  So it would be great if both sides could back off and just agree that BEVs are here to stay, they work great for some buyers today and not at all for others.  A lot of the issues will be solved for most use cases with new generation batteries and more/faster public chargers along with grid improvements over the next 10-20 years.  Some like heavy duty hauling and towing will require longer and/or other solutions.

a bell curve would be a good description of the extremes and the middle is where we are today, it is up to the Farleys of the world to lead their companies into the future

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40 minutes ago, akirby said:


Or hoping they’ll fail because they don’t like them.

 

On the other hand you have folks who think the transition will happen far faster than is practical and ignoring or downplaying the very real challenges that have yet to be solved.  So it would be great if both sides could back off and just agree that BEVs are here to stay, they work great for some buyers today and not at all for others.  A lot of the issues will be solved for most use cases with new generation batteries and more/faster public chargers along with grid improvements over the next 10-20 years.  Some like heavy duty hauling and towing will require longer and/or other solutions.

 

AK,

Thank you.  But we can't do anything at a measured pace when between politicians playing to the green gallery and people in industry doing the same thing  in particular, when driven by the media as they hype the "progress" with good press for the "pioneers".

 

In the meantime China is building dozens of new coal fired plants, Brazil continues to burn down the Amazon to convert to agribusiness, and India is probably doing both.

Between us and the EU, I have read more than one story that says our efforts amount to a piss hole in the snow compared to what these others continue  do..or NOT do.

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2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:


Lets use the last administration as an example:

Major Automakers Choose Not To Back Trump Administration On Fuel Economy Standards Rollback

 

That was from 2020

The point is the ball is rolling downhill and given the investment that auto makers are doing, they are going down that path and will push back against changes in the future because of the investment they are currently doing. Not to mention that 2/3 of the world is going BEV in 2030-2035. Just in China alone, the largest auto market in the world, 40% of new car sales have to BEVs in 2030. Ford is a world wide company and that is going to influence what is done here because it is stupid to make completely different products for each market from a business case. 


Automakers can currently keep ICE/PHEVs for another 10-12 years and current investment that Ford has can keep that going, but Ford has to be focused on what is going on 5-10 years down the road, thus the EV investments

 

I think many of you are just sticking your fingers in your ears and humming so you don't hear what is being said and done and are assuming that BEVs are going to be a failure...when the die has been cast already. 

Most people on this forum aren’t sticking their fingers in their ears, they are just being realists.  There are many reasons to be skeptical of the BEV adoption rates being thrown around, based on what people are seeing and experiencing in the real world.  BEVs are coming and will replace ICE at some point because companies are devoting majority of their resources to them, but I’m guessing most here do not see this occurring in mass within the timelines that you have suggested.  
 

Government intervention has been mentioned as a method to force or accelerate the BEV adoption rate, and that may be partly true, but IMO it really should only be in respect to the infrastructure and not subsidizing vehicle purchases.  The solution to this is for companies to build a superior product to ICE without the compromises at a reasonable price and that adoption rate will accelerate. 
 

I like BEVs but I just don’t see sales being the majority as fast as some people want it to.  

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2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 I think many of you are just sticking your fingers in your ears and humming so you don't hear what is being said 


This part applies to both extremes.  

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38 minutes ago, tbone said:

I like BEVs but I just don’t see sales being the majority as fast as some people want it to.  

 

What are you expectations for it? I don't see it being 50% of the market (in North America) till the end of the decade or by 2035. But it will change. 

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29 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

This part applies to both extremes.  

 

I think its realistic that say 50% of the market is BEVs by 2030-2035...guess we will find out. They should be able to cover 3/4 of all new car sales in 2030 with battery cells. 

I don't think we'll see that any earlier then that....I'm being realistic..so we aren't as far apart as you think. 

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38 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

AK,

Thank you.  But we can't do anything at a measured pace when between politicians playing to the green gallery and people in industry doing the same thing  in particular, when driven by the media as they hype the "progress" with good press for the "pioneers".

 

In the meantime China is building dozens of new coal fired plants, Brazil continues to burn down the Amazon to convert to agribusiness, and India is probably doing both.

Between us and the EU, I have read more than one story that says our efforts amount to a piss hole in the snow compared to what these others continue  do..or NOT do.


Government mandates are a different issue and nothing we can control or change.  Personally I think they do mandates just to push the industry to go as far as possible and then they’ll back off as reality sets in.

 

However none of the mandates or other political agendas have anything to do with consumers who want and can easily use BEVs today.

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33 minutes ago, akirby said:

Government mandates are a different issue and nothing we can control or change.  Personally I think they do mandates just to push the industry to go as far as possible and then they’ll back off as reality sets in.

 

You hit the nail on the head...often what will happen is companies will do the bare minimum (when possible) to keep profits up...you've seen this time and again in the auto industry over the past 70 years. 

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1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

AK,

Thank you.  But we can't do anything at a measured pace when between politicians playing to the green gallery and people in industry doing the same thing  in particular, when driven by the media as they hype the "progress" with good press for the "pioneers".

 

In the meantime China is building dozens of new coal fired plants, Brazil continues to burn down the Amazon to convert to agribusiness, and India is probably doing both.

Between us and the EU, I have read more than one story that says our efforts amount to a piss hole in the snow compared to what these others continue  do..or NOT do.


Government mandates are a different issue and nothing we can control or change.  Personally I think they do mandates just to push the industry to go as far as possible and then they’ll back off as reality sets in.

 

However none of the mandates or other political agendas have anything to do with consumers who want BEVs and there are millions of these consumers.

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