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Lincoln's New President has some Interesting Thoughts on the Way Forward


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If I understood correctly, this means Lincoln isn’t ready to go full EV just yet? They’re focusing on “getting them right.” I wonder if we might see next generation ICE products then (other than the Navigator). 

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1 hour ago, BigBendMatt said:

If I understood correctly, this means Lincoln isn’t ready to go full EV just yet? They’re focusing on “getting them right.” I wonder if we might see next generation ICE products then (other than the Navigator). 

If they are wise that is the approach, combined with the launch of new EVs. My position is ICE isn’t going anywhere through a minimum of 2030, which means to me they need another generation of ICE, or at least a substantial upgrade of the existing Generation.  

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The unexpected launch of the 2024 Nautilus in USA is the example of the new Lincoln management. Originally, the Nautilus was dead for NorthAmerica. Now, the ICE are alive, more time than the original plan , beyond 2030.  EVs are in vogue, but there are not the core of the car sales. At least, not in NorthAmerica. 

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3 hours ago, .I. said:

The unexpected launch of the 2024 Nautilus in USA is the example of the new Lincoln management. Originally, the Nautilus was dead for NorthAmerica. Now, the ICE are alive, more time than the original plan , beyond 2030.  EVs are in vogue, but there are not the core of the car sales. At least, not in NorthAmerica. 

...and it's an all-new design, not a short-term refresh to get us to its imminent EV replacement. I'm sure that Lincoln will at some point fill this space with a 2-row mid-sized crossover, but the near-term demise of the ICE-based Nautilus is, indeed, no longer in the cards.

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Are the odds of a next gen ICE Corsair or Aviator any higher now? They both had recent/incoming refreshes, so I would assume they are at the halfway point or closer of their lifespan. 
Or should we expect the next Navigator and new Nautilus to be the last gas powered Lincolns? Maybe they will offer both ICE and EV versions of new vehicles like BMW with the 7 series and i7 until they’re ready to fully commit. But last I read was that the EV Aviator is supposed to be styled much differently than the current?

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1 hour ago, BigBendMatt said:

Maybe they will offer both ICE and EV versions of new vehicles like BMW with the 7 series and i7 until they’re ready to fully commit.

 

BMW can afford to do that, Lincoln cannot. As a Tier 2 player in the luxury car arena, Lincoln needs to make the transition to a 100% electric vehicle lineup as soon as possible. Ideally, by 2030 or earlier in all markets where they currently do business and in any planned expansion markets.

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I'm not underwhelmed by the new Nautilus, I'm totally underwhelmed- Take away the full width video display and it's another 2 row SUV trying to play upmarket and ready to be commoditized! And "Nautilus"- Boomers like me associate it with a nuclear sub and ancient mythology, but to anyone born since the Reagan administration at best "Nautilus" means nothing. Lincoln has probably only survived these past few uninspired years because the Ford family has honored Henry Ford's promise to Lincoln's founder that he would keep Lincoln alive, and after nearly a century that charity may be wearing out. 

 

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1 hour ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

I'm not underwhelmed by the new Nautilus, I'm totally underwhelmed- Take away the full width video display and it's another 2 row SUV trying to play upmarket and ready to be commoditized! And "Nautilus"- Boomers like me associate it with a nuclear sub and ancient mythology, but to anyone born since the Reagan administration at best "Nautilus" means nothing. Lincoln has probably only survived these past few uninspired years because the Ford family has honored Henry Ford's promise to Lincoln's founder that he would keep Lincoln alive, and after nearly a century that charity may be wearing out. 

 

Good points GearheadGrrrl. Lincoln now has the chance to not only stay alive but be part of a renaissance for American luxury car brands overall. But that will only happen if its "Way Forward" strategy done right - from product design and engineering, to timely and problem free new product launches leading up to a 100% electric vehicle lineup, to the dealership experience, to making the Lincoln name meaningful and respected by upper class consumers around the world.

 

Hopefully 2024 Nautilus is the last underwhelming new Lincoln product we'll ever see.

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47 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Good points GearheadGrrrl. Lincoln now has the chance to not only stay alive but be part of a renaissance for American luxury car brands overall. But that will only happen if its "Way Forward" strategy done right - from product design and engineering, to timely and problem free new product launches leading up to a 100% electric vehicle lineup, to the dealership experience, to making the Lincoln name meaningful and respected by upper class consumers around the world.

 

Hopefully 2024 Nautilus is the last underwhelming new Lincoln product we'll ever see.

I hope so!

 

Right now the Lincoln lineup consists of bloated versions of Ford's SUVs with matching bloated prices, and I don't think a full width video game dash to go along with the Lincoln "embrace" light show is going to help. The competition has luxury performance cars, BEVs, sedans, sports cars, and bunch more stuff Lincoln doesn't. And Ford expects the dealers to invest millions in new showrooms for a brand that's on life support? Sounds like a good way to chase away the franchised dealers and make way for direct sales of future Lincolns, but reviving Mercury as a BEV brand might be easier...

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2 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

 competition has luxury performance cars, BEVs, sedans, sports cars, and bunch more stuff Lincoln doesn't.


Porsche sold 14k sports cars and 4K sedans last year.  And 44k of those bloated SUVs.

 

Lexus sold 70k sports cars and sedans and 189k bloated SUVs.    
 

Buyers want them and Navigator, Aviator, Corsair and Nautilus are at the top of the class thanks to great designs and features and materials.

 

 

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9 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

I hope so!

 

Right now the Lincoln lineup consists of bloated versions of Ford's SUVs with matching bloated prices, and I don't think a full width video game dash to go along with the Lincoln "embrace" light show is going to help. The competition has luxury performance cars, BEVs, sedans, sports cars, and bunch more stuff Lincoln doesn't. And Ford expects the dealers to invest millions in new showrooms for a brand that's on life support? Sounds like a good way to chase away the franchised dealers and make way for direct sales of future Lincolns, but reviving Mercury as a BEV brand might be easier...

 

7 hours ago, akirby said:


Porsche sold 14k sports cars and 4K sedans last year.  And 44k of those bloated SUVs.

 

Lexus sold 70k sports cars and sedans and 189k bloated SUVs.    
 

Buyers want them and Navigator, Aviator, Corsair and Nautilus are at the top of the class thanks to great designs and features and materials.

 

 

I agree with both sides here. Crossovers are clearly the volume sellers, the money printing machines. But I also think now that Lincoln has a solid lineup for crossovers already, the new nautilus is great imo, the navigator is prob the best full size luxury SUV, the aviator is gorgeous, and I've heard the reliability issues with those have been worked out finally, not sure how true that is, and the Corsair is solid.

 

True, they need to continuously invest in those products to keep them competitive, but I believe there's room to add additional Lincoln models, and not just another few crossovers. What Lincoln needs is wow factor, sex appeal. Few things add wow factor like a stunning two door sports car, or a flagship sedan. Purely from a design standpoint, those blow crossovers out of the water. Even if they don't sell a ton of them. At some point, it becomes about perception and image, rather than profit margin and sales volume. 

 

Farley wants his brands to become more passion oriented, that's a great strategy, I say he puts his money where his mouth is. More radical styling, more diversity in product offerings, just go for it. 

 

 

dims (1).jpeg

Lincoln-Model-L100-Exterior-Sketch-2-600x240.jpg

lincolnized-mustang-might-help-the-two-door-live-a-luxurious-muscle-car-life-177664_1.jpg

Edited by DeluxeStang
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58 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

 

I agree with both sides here. Crossovers are clearly the volume sellers, the money printing machines. But I also think now that Lincoln has a solid lineup for crossovers already, the new nautilus is great imo, the navigator is prob the best full size luxury SUV, the aviator is gorgeous, and I've heard the reliability issues with those have been worked out finally, not sure how true that is, and the Corsair is solid.

 

True, they need to continuously invest in those products to keep them competitive, but I believe there's room to add additional Lincoln models, and not just another few crossovers. What Lincoln needs is wow factor, sex appeal. Few things add wow factor like a stunning two door sports car, or a flagship sedan. Purely from a design standpoint, those blow crossovers out of the water. Even if they don't sell a ton of them. At some point, it becomes about perception and image, rather than profit margin and sales volume. 

 

Farley wants his brands to become more passion oriented, that's a great strategy, I say he puts his money where his mouth is. More radical styling, more diversity in product offerings, just go for it. 

 

 

dims (1).jpeg

Lincoln-Model-L100-Exterior-Sketch-2-600x240.jpg

lincolnized-mustang-might-help-the-two-door-live-a-luxurious-muscle-car-life-177664_1.jpg

It would be nice if they dusted off the plans for those CD6 sedans. Turn Flat Rock into the new Wixom.

 

That Mustang-based Lincoln looks sweet btw.

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8 hours ago, akirby said:


Porsche sold 14k sports cars and 4K sedans last year.  And 44k of those bloated SUVs.

 

Lexus sold 70k sports cars and sedans and 189k bloated SUVs.    
 

Buyers want them and Navigator, Aviator, Corsair and Nautilus are at the top of the class thanks to great designs and features and materials.

 

 

 

Part of the reason Lincoln lacks "street cred" is because they aren't competitive in the "sport" part of the SPORT Utility Vehicle segment.  Take the Corsair, for instance, where is the trim level that will compete with an X3 M40i, SQ5 or GLC-AMG?    The Lincoln's look good now and have excellent interiors for sure, but they are generally boring to drive for the most part.  (And this comes from someone who has 2 Corsairs, 2 Nautilus and an Aviator in my immediate family.)  

 

I tried to get my wife into a Corsair but she preferred a Bronco Sport.  To her the Corsair was very nice but overall very blah.  The Bronco Sport (Badlands) has far more personality and feels sportier/faster.  Yes it's noisier, etc, but she liked it better so that's what I got her.    (Fine by me, saved me a little money....LOL.)

 

As far as the topic at hand, Lincoln can push all they want for standalone stores but I just don't think dealers can survive that way.  You need more gross margin going through your store's new car department to make a profit overall.  (Unless the dealer is a huge used car center.)  That's probably why they want less dealers overall, to make the average Dealer Absorbtion rate go up to justify a standalone store.  Generally speaking, in the car biz, dealers can cover ~ 80% of their expenses with parts, service & body alone.  That's what the Dealer Absorbtion rate is and this is tracked on each dealer's Financial statement.  When you add-in profit from new and used vehicle sales, that takes you to 100% and beyond, hopefully.     

 

 

Edited by iamweasel
typo
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5 hours ago, The Handler said:

It would be nice if they dusted off the plans for those CD6 sedans. Turn Flat Rock into the new Wixom.

 

That Mustang-based Lincoln looks sweet btw.

Found this sketch that was allegedly shown to dealers in 2018. Would’ve been built on CD6 if I recall correctly. I remember being hyped from those rumors. 
IMG_5942.thumb.png.145fccf4f2944ffee5c697bad6b9ca16.png

Edited by BigBendMatt
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On 4/21/2023 at 1:48 PM, twintornados said:

 

Where have you been in the last 10+ years?

But how did Toyota convince buyers that a Lexus was any different than a glorified Camry?  They called it a luxury car and everybody believed them? Sheep!  Cadillac Escalade is a Chevy /GMC.  My father in law bought a Crown Vic that had every feature of a Town Car!  It's all marketing magic.  Capitalistic nonsense.

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There are approximately 146 standalone Lincoln dealerships  in the US, out of an estimated 637 total. Ms Craig wants to bring that down to 356 by making all Lincoln stores standalone’s. I don’t have any figures, but I think that this may be a bigger challenge than it appears. I suspect that there are a number of those exclusive stores that are not going to get on the e-train, and that will mean convincing more of the other 491 duals to separate the Lincoln franchise, and make huge, and redundant, capital expenditures that they are already making to become a Ford-e franchises.

They are placing high demands on their dealer network to up the Lincoln brand image, while foregoing the New York International Auto Show and most others (they are scheduled to be at NA Int'l Detroit Auto Show). Yeah, I know. Nobody goes to auto shows anymore. But I think from a brand reenforcement view they are still relevant.

 

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13 hours ago, iamweasel said:

The Lincoln's look good now and have excellent interiors for sure, but they are generally boring to drive for the most part. 

 

That's correct iamweasel. The boring driving experience may actually work in Lincoln's favor though, for the following reasons.

  1. Other than some versions of the LS sedan and Mark VII coupe, all Lincoln vehicles over the past 40 years have been well known for their almost total lack of driver engagement.
  2. Lincoln's new design theme is called "Quiet Flight". As such, a focus on pampering its occupants (driver and passengers) is appropriate for Lincoln vehicles.
  3. The transition to BEV should improve performance of Lincoln vehicles, while preserving or enhancing the pampering aspect.
  4. Lincoln ActiveGlide (and the Ford version, BlueCruise) is currently the best Level 2 Active Driving Assistance System in the U.S. market according to Consumer Reports. Lincoln should make this system standard on all new U.S. spec Lincolns. From a marketing standpoint, this could be a perfect tie-in to Lincoln's otherwise uninvolving driving experience.

 

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Sports sedans didn’t do anything for Cadillac.

 

On the contrary, sports sedans especially V and Blackwing versions dramatically elevated the Cadillac brand's stature in the hi-po and motorsports realms over the past 2 decades. Car and Driver recently declared CT5-V Blackwing "the greatest sports sedan on sale today, if not of all time." 2023 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing: Car and Driver 10Best

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36 minutes ago, Joe771476 said:

But how did Toyota convince buyers that a Lexus was any different than a glorified Camry?  They called it a luxury car and everybody believed them? Sheep!  Cadillac Escalade is a Chevy /GMC.  My father in law bought a Crown Vic that had every feature of a Town Car!  It's all marketing magic.  Capitalistic nonsense.

But the Townie was bigger, and had rear cigarette lighters whereas the Crown Vic didn't.? 

I agree that the mass luxury market vehicles, those that are below the exotics, have a lot of commonality with their regular vehicles.

I don't think we'll ever get back to the days where Lincolns and Cadillacs had their own frames and powertrains; too many safety and environmental regs nowadays.

 

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2 hours ago, akirby said:

They had the Continental already but couldn’t justify keeping it.  Sports sedans didn’t do anything for Cadillac.  A sporty convertible coupe would make more sense.

 

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

On the contrary, sports sedans especially V and Blackwing versions dramatically elevated the Cadillac brand's stature in the hi-po and motorsports realms over the past 2 decades. Car and Driver recently declared CT5-V Blackwing "the greatest sports sedan on sale today, if not of all time." 2023 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing: Car and Driver 10Best

They may not sell in profitable niumbers consistently, or ever,  but in the segment of the market where performance plus luxury matters, a manufacturer needs to show up if they want to sell them an SUV. That's where MultiMatic, AMG, M1 et al come in. Lincoln could do a Saleen or Roush Corsair or Nautilus. Might sell fewer than 2-3,000 units, per year, but the perception of having some of that DNA in yours is what drives sales. Cadillac, Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Audi, Alfa Romeo, Volvo all compete in international motorsports, and their younger racing fan SUV customers know it and identify with that.

Edited by Chrisgb
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1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

 

On the contrary, sports sedans especially V and Blackwing versions dramatically elevated the Cadillac brand's stature in the hi-po and motorsports realms over the past 2 decades. Car and Driver recently declared CT5-V Blackwing "the greatest sports sedan on sale today, if not of all time." 2023 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing: Car and Driver 10Best


great for bench racers and bragging rights but does absolutely nothing for the bottom line.  

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1 hour ago, Chrisgb said:

 

I don't think we'll ever get back to the days where Lincolns and Cadillacs had their own frames and powertrains; too many safety and environmental regs nowadays.

 


You won’t see it because it isn’t necessary.  Platforms are ubiquitous- it’s what you do with it that separates a luxury and non luxury vehicle.

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54 minutes ago, Chrisgb said:

They may not sell in profitable niumbers consistently, or ever,  but in the segment of the market where performance plus luxury matters, a manufacturer needs to show up if they want to sell them an SUV.


Lexus RX300/350 proved that isn’t the case.

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2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

That's correct iamweasel. The boring driving experience may actually work in Lincoln's favor though, for the following reasons.

  1. Other than some versions of the LS sedan and Mark VII coupe, all Lincoln vehicles over the past 40 years have been well known for their almost total lack of driver engagement.
  2. Lincoln's new design theme is called "Quiet Flight". As such, a focus on pampering its occupants (driver and passengers) is appropriate for Lincoln vehicles.
  3. The transition to BEV should improve performance of Lincoln vehicles, while preserving or enhancing the pampering aspect.
  4. Lincoln ActiveGlide (and the Ford version, BlueCruise) is currently the best Level 2 Active Driving Assistance System in the U.S. market according to Consumer Reports. Lincoln should make this system standard on all new U.S. spec Lincolns. From a marketing standpoint, this could be a perfect tie-in to Lincoln's otherwise uninvolving driving experience.

Largely agree, but a couple of comments.

First, starting with the all-new 2024 Nautilus, Lincoln now calls it "Lincoln BlueCruise." They decided it had much better branding and was better known. And, well, BlueCruise just trips off the lips in the way that ActiveGlide never could.

Second, while I agree that Lincoln has found a niche in focusing on a more quiet and disconnected drive experience (what Lexus once had in its early days), the one thing that bugs me about this is that like almost everyone else (significantly, excluding Mercedes), Lincoln also forces its customers into increasingly over-sized wheels with diminishing-profile tires the more expensive trims you get. Gone are the days when larger wheels were something that you could opt into or out of. Big wheels/low profile tires might look nifty, but they make the ride noticeably rougher and are prone to wheel and tire damage from potholes and curbs. 

Edited by Gurgeh
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