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GM Passes Ford to Take No. 2 Spot in EV Sales Behind Tesla


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But GM's EV sales of 20,670 were still far below those of industry leader Tesla, which delivered more than 161,000 vehicles in the U.S. from January to March, according to estimates from

Motorintelligence.com.


 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/gm-passes-ford-to-take-no-2-spot-in-ev-sales-behind-tesla-1.6342348

 

This is just one quarter. I didn't realize Teslas sold that much. Pretty crazy...

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  • ice-capades changed the title to GM Passes Ford to Take No. 2 Spot in EV Sales Behind Tesla
1 hour ago, zipnzap said:

This is just one quarter.

 

Thank you zipnzap, that's the key thing. As mentioned in the Ford April 2023 Sales Results topic thread, GM's overtaking of Ford for the #2 spot in BEV sales in Q1 2023 is a temporary blip. Ford had production constraints for both Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightning during that time. Ford will probably restore its #2 position as soon as Q2, as it is planning to produce 600,000 BEV globally for calendar year 2023.

 

Quarterly shipments of and revenue from EVs were limited by production interruptions of two highly popular vehicles:  the Mustang Mach-E SUV, to make industrial changes that will nearly double manufacturing capacity, and the F-150 Lightning pickup, to isolate and address a battery issue before it became a problem for customers.

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25 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Thank you zipnzap, that's the key thing. As mentioned in the Ford April 2023 Sales Results topic thread, GM's overtaking of Ford for the #2 spot in BEV sales in Q1 2023 is a temporary blip. Ford had production constraints for both Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightning during that time. Ford will probably restore its #2 position as soon as Q2, as it is planning to produce 600,000 BEV globally for calendar year 2023.

 

 

 

"Any plan won't survive its first encounter with reality. The reality will always be different. It will never be the plan." -Jeff Bezos

 

We are almost at mid-year. How close are they to that 600,000 number right now?

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11 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Thank you zipnzap, that's the key thing. As mentioned in the Ford April 2023 Sales Results topic thread, GM's overtaking of Ford for the #2 spot in BEV sales in Q1 2023 is a temporary blip. Ford had production constraints for both Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightning during that time. Ford will probably restore its #2 position as soon as Q2, as it is planning to produce 600,000 BEV globally for calendar year 2023.

 

Maybe. GM has the Equinox, Blazer, and Silverado EVs coming out in the next few months.(allegedly)

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9 hours ago, AGR said:

 

Maybe. GM has the Equinox, Blazer, and Silverado EVs coming out in the next few months.(allegedly)

 

GM are having the same birthing pains with initialization of production of their EVs as everyone else has. Read about Cadillac Lyric production for details.

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It should be interesting to see what happens with GM BEV sales if they cancel Bolt EV and EUV as announced since it is their most popular model by far.  The newer and more expensive vehicles, particularly Hummer Pickup, are not nearly as popular so far.

 

https://insideevs.com/news/660658/us-gm-plugin-car-sales-2023q1/

 

GM BEV sales in Q1 2023:

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20 minutes ago, Harley Lover said:

 

GM are having the same birthing pains with initialization of production of their EVs as everyone else has. Read about Cadillac Lyric production for details.

 

Hence the reason I started off with "Maybe".

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Mach-e production will increase going forward now that production has ramped up after expansion of the Cuautitlán Stamping and Assembly Plant.

CAP produced 11,858 Mach-e's in April  https://fordauthority.com/2023/05/2023-ford-mustang-mach-e-production-up-sharply-in-april/  If they can keep it up, Ford should have 600k Bevs on the ground by New Years Eve on those alone, plus the Lightning. gm is rolling out new models, Ford is rolling out new models VWG, Stellantis Volvo JLR, lots to choose from.

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On 5/13/2023 at 11:04 AM, zipnzap said:

This is just one quarter. I didn't realize Teslas sold that much. Pretty crazy...


Yeah, crazy volumes compared to other brands.  Tesla are expected to introduce their smaller and lower-cost next-generation vehicle next year, and some analysts are estimating as high as 700,000 units in 2025 just for the new model; though many of the vehicles are expected to go to China and Europe where compact BEV market is hotter.

 

If new Tesla model is priced under $30,000 and retains close to 250-mile range, they may just sell that many.  The next generation vehicle reportedly will be a smaller version of Model Y instead of model 3.  In any case, GM and Ford will need entry-level BEVs of their own to compete.

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17 hours ago, Rick73 said:


Yeah, crazy volumes compared to other brands.  Tesla are expected to introduce their smaller and lower-cost next-generation vehicle next year, and some analysts are estimating as high as 700,000 units in 2025 just for the new model; though many of the vehicles are expected to go to China and Europe where compact BEV market is hotter.

 

If new Tesla model is priced under $30,000 and retains close to 250-mile range, they may just sell that many.  The next generation vehicle reportedly will be a smaller version of Model Y instead of model 3.  In any case, GM and Ford will need entry-level BEVs of their own to compete.

 

They showed Cybertruck nearly 4 years ago and it's still not out.  I have no confidence they'd finally get that launched and have another new model within 2 years.

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2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

They showed Cybertruck nearly 4 years ago and it's still not out.  I have no confidence they'd finally get that launched and have another new model within 2 years.


Cybertruck, or any other large pickup truck, is not going to be a volume vehicle for a long time, if ever, and Musk knows that IMO.  We can see that in how poorly Hummer is doing.  It’s almost a joke.

 

The upcoming Tesla Model 2 (which Musk insist will have a different name) is a necessary and critical vehicle that will drive the cost of BEVs down to the level required for mass BEV adoption.  The Model 2 will be the very opposite of the impractical Cybertruck, which will appeal to very few.

 

Model 2 will be an all-new smaller and simpler vehicle that will lower costs significantly to around +/- 71% of Model 3 (per article linked below).  By virtue of being more efficient, and thus requiring smaller battery, total cost of ownership will be within reach of many more buyers.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2023/03/03/tesla-did-introduce-the-model-2-this-week-at-26000-but-kept-it-quiet/

 

https://thedriven.io/2023/05/11/tesla-model-2-will-be-small-version-of-model-y-and-could-hit-700k-sales-in-2025-analysts-say/
 

 

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1 minute ago, Rick73 said:


Cybertruck, or any other large pickup truck, is not going to be a volume vehicle for a long time, if ever, and Musk knows that IMO.  We can see that in how poorly Hummer is doing.  It’s almost a joke.

 

The upcoming Tesla Model 2 (which Musk insist will have a different name) is a necessary and critical vehicle that will drive the cost of BEVs down to the level required for mass BEV adoption.  The Model 2 will be the very opposite of the impractical Cybertruck, which will appeal to very few.

 

Model 2 will be an all-new smaller and simpler vehicle that will lower costs significantly to around +/- 71% of Model 3 (per article linked below).  By virtue of being more efficient, and thus requiring smaller battery, total cost of ownership will be within reach of many more buyers.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2023/03/03/tesla-did-introduce-the-model-2-this-week-at-26000-but-kept-it-quiet/

 

https://thedriven.io/2023/05/11/tesla-model-2-will-be-small-version-of-model-y-and-could-hit-700k-sales-in-2025-analysts-say/
 

 

 

You're missing the point - if they're having trouble getting a "low volume" (your description) Cybertruck going, why would they be able to get a mass volume "2" going quickly?

 

That ignores the fact that the Semi they showed in 2017 for 2019 production only got into production in December 2022, and the Roadster they showed at the same time still has yet to see the light of day.  Obviously those, especially the latter, is a less important priority overall, but it shows that they are not good at sticking to an announced timeline, so why should I have any confidence they'd be able to stick to a launch timeline for a new "2"?

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1 minute ago, rmc523 said:

 

You're missing the point - if they're having trouble getting a "low volume" (your description) Cybertruck going, why would they be able to get a mass volume "2" going quickly?

 

That ignores the fact that the Semi they showed in 2017 for 2019 production only got into production in December 2022, and the Roadster they showed at the same time still has yet to see the light of day.  Obviously those, especially the latter, is a less important priority overall, but it shows that they are not good at sticking to an announced timeline, so why should I have any confidence they'd be able to stick to a launch timeline for a new "2"?


Agree it’s like you say — all about priorities.   Cybertruck, Semi, and Roadster all draw lots of attention to the brand, and highlight that Tesla have technical capabilities other manufacturers lack presently, but these Tesla vehicles won’t contribute as much to bottom line as the Model 2 could based on volume.

 

Analysts mentioned production starting towards end of 2024, and that Tesla won’t disclose much information this time in order to avoid Osborne effect.  Granted, it could all be hype and Tesla may still be years away, but the Model 2 seems real to me because it makes much more sense, and demand for lower-cost BEVs is high.

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1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

...Cybertruck, or any other large pickup truck, is not going to be a volume vehicle for a long time, if ever, and Musk knows that IMO.  We can see that in how poorly Hummer is doing.  It’s almost a joke....

 

Morgan Stanley figures the Cybertruck to be a niche vehicle, selling perhaps 50,000 units/year.

 

https://insideevs.com/news/656606/morgan-stanley-cybertruck-low-volume-prediction/

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1 hour ago, Rick73 said:


Agree it’s like you say — all about priorities.   Cybertruck, Semi, and Roadster all draw lots of attention to the brand, and highlight that Tesla have technical capabilities other manufacturers lack presently, but these Tesla vehicles won’t contribute as much to bottom line as the Model 2 could based on volume.

 

Analysts mentioned production starting towards end of 2024, and that Tesla won’t disclose much information this time in order to avoid Osborne effect.  Granted, it could all be hype and Tesla may still be years away, but the Model 2 seems real to me because it makes much more sense, and demand for lower-cost BEVs is high.


 

Still missing the point.  It’s not about volume it’s about repeated unfulfilled promises of new vehicles.  If they can’t get those other vehicles into production then why would they be able to get model 2 out the door?  I think they will but their track record is terrible.

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21 minutes ago, akirby said:


 

Still missing the point.  It’s not about volume it’s about repeated unfulfilled promises of new vehicles.  If they can’t get those other vehicles into production then why would they be able to get model 2 out the door?  I think they will but their track record is terrible.


I don’t think I’m missing the point, because you seem to have misunderstood my point to start with.  I think a lot of Tesla hyperbole is just that — a bunch of exaggerations that they knew very well upfront wasn’t real.  Musk has gotten himself in trouble because it’s easy for some to conclude he was deceiving investors.  He likes talking trash, but in case of Model 2 I think it’s different.

 

I may be wrong about Model 2 being different, and may disagree with your position about whether it will be manufactured by end of 2024, but it’s not because I’m missing the point that Tesla misses deadlines on a regular basis.  That part is common knowledge. 

 

 

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"we specialize in making the impossible merely late" I'm a fan of Elon and his companies, but Elon time is different than reality time. They have been very quiet about "model 2" though, maybe he finally learned his lesson with cybertruck and semi being so late. But he also said 1-2 months for next starship launch after it obliterated the launch pad, so.. maybe not ?

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14 hours ago, Captainp4 said:

They have been very quiet about "model 2" though, maybe he finally learned his lesson with cybertruck and semi being so late.


My take is that Semi had no Tesla in-house competition, and therefore boasting about it early doesn’t hurt Tesla’s bottom line.  If anything it’s cheap marketing.  However, as one of the articles referenced above mentioned, Tesla may be concerned that disclosing too much information about a new and lower-cost Model 2 BEV may lead to some buyers sitting on sidelines instead of buying the presently-available Model 3.

 

If I were in market for a Tesla BEV, I would certainly wait, if I could delay purchase, to see what Model 2 may offer.  The Model 3 is pretty nice in my opinion but a bit too large for me. 

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18 hours ago, akirby said:


 

Still missing the point.  It’s not about volume it’s about repeated unfulfilled promises of new vehicles.  If they can’t get those other vehicles into production then why would they be able to get model 2 out the door?  I think they will but their track record is terrible.

 

I'm sure they'll get it out the door....it'll just probably arrive 1-3 years later than initially announced.

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Elon Musk teases 2 new Tesla products - Autoblog

 

Elon Musk teased two upcoming Tesla vehicles at the company's shareholder meeting. Getty Images
  • Elon Musk teased two new Tesla vehicles at the company's annual shareholder meeting. 
  • He didn't say what they will be. 
  • He said Tesla will "probably" sell at least 5 million units annually of the two models combined. 

Elon Musk threw a bone to Tesla fans eager to hear what's next from the company by confirming that the automaker is working on two new vehicles

"We are actually building a new product. We are actually designing a new product. We aren't sitting on our hands here," the Tesla CEO said at the company's annual shareholder meeting on Tuesday. 

"There are two new products that I think you will be very excited about," he added. 

Screens on either side of Musk displayed a shadowy image of a Tesla car, but it wasn't immediately clear if the depiction was of the next-generation vehicle. 

Musk didn't offer much in the way of specifics, saying that the new products would be revealed at a dedicated event at a later date.

 

 

 

--

 

 

 

 

I think it'll be the refreshed Model 3, and model 2

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8 hours ago, rmc523 said:

Elon Musk teases 2 new Tesla products - Autoblog

 

Elon Musk teased two upcoming Tesla vehicles at the company's shareholder meeting. Getty Images

  • Elon Musk teased two new Tesla vehicles at the company's annual shareholder meeting. 
  • He didn't say what they will be. 
  • He said Tesla will "probably" sell at least 5 million units annually of the two models combined. 

Elon Musk threw a bone to Tesla fans eager to hear what's next from the company by confirming that the automaker is working on two new vehicles

"We are actually building a new product. We are actually designing a new product. We aren't sitting on our hands here," the Tesla CEO said at the company's annual shareholder meeting on Tuesday. 

"There are two new products that I think you will be very excited about," he added. 

Screens on either side of Musk displayed a shadowy image of a Tesla car, but it wasn't immediately clear if the depiction was of the next-generation vehicle. 

Musk didn't offer much in the way of specifics, saying that the new products would be revealed at a dedicated event at a later date.

 

 

 

--

 

 

 

 

I think it'll be the refreshed Model 3, and model 2


I watched it when I got home last night, seemed fairly clear to me that he was referencing "model 2" and roadster .. but it was pretty late and I had some adult beverages while watching lol

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16 hours ago, Captainp4 said:


I watched it when I got home last night, seemed fairly clear to me that he was referencing "model 2" and roadster .. but it was pretty late and I had some adult beverages while watching lol

 

I actually didn't watch any of it, just went off the article haha.

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18 hours ago, Captainp4 said:


I watched it when I got home last night, seemed fairly clear to me that he was referencing "model 2" and roadster .. but it was pretty late and I had some adult beverages while watching lol


An analyst asked towards end of video about Next Generation vehicles and Musk declined to answer — was only question they would not touch other than it will be built at new Mexican plant and other plants also.  They went into details of new vehicle architecture and how it will be built very differently to reduce costs, but they specifically stated the video used a Model Y for display purposes and not the actual new model.

 

The analyst questioned about the first two Next Gen vehicles being the anticipated Model 2 and a van, which he inferred from the display below.  Assuming Tesla is not trying to mislead intentionally (always a possibility with any business) it appears the 4 vehicles to left of Semi are S and 3 sedans on top, and X and Y SUVs on bottom.  To right of Semi are upcoming pickup (Cybertruck), and two new vehicles above it.

 

Based on shape and size of vehicles under covers, it does appear one is a small sedan-like vehicle, and the other a fairly tall van.  Whether this is a hint of what’s coming next, or just information to mislead, is anyone’s guess.

 

IMG_0658.thumb.jpeg.0cd21daa2640672a095c4d3fdaf7ac46.jpeg

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