Ford raises Blue Cruise pricing and confuses everyone

[rperez817]

25 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

For $75 it would have to be full self driving where I put a an address and it drives. 

 

20 minutes ago, johndeerefarmer said:

Ford better get on the stick. I want a new self driving 1 ton in the next few years.

 

I agree with you both jasonj80 and johndeerefarmer. Hopefully Ford's new Latitude AI business unit will bring SAE Level 4 products and services to market soon. Doug Field's statement in the Latitude AI press release gives me optimism that they will. Ford Establishes Latitude AI to Develop Future Automated Driving Technology | Ford Media Center

 

We see automated driving technology as an opportunity to redefine the relationship between people and their vehicles,” said Doug Field, chief advanced product development and technology officer, Ford Motor Company. “Customers using BlueCruise are already experiencing the benefits of hands-off driving. The deep experience and talent in our Latitude team will help us accelerate the development of all-new automated driving technology – with the goal of not only making travel safer, less stressful and more enjoyable, but ultimately over time giving our customers some of their day back.

[rperez817]

25 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:

For $75 it would have to be full self driving where I put a an address and it drives. 

 

20 minutes ago, johndeerefarmer said:

Ford better get on the stick. I want a new self driving 1 ton in the next few years.

 

I agree with you both jasonj80 and johndeerefarmer. Hopefully Ford's new Latitude AI business unit will bring SAE Level 4 products and services to market soon. Doug Field's statement in the Latitude AI press release gives me optimism that they will. Ford Establishes Latitude AI to Develop Future Automated Driving Technology | Ford Media Center

 

We see automated driving technology as an opportunity to redefine the relationship between people and their vehicles,” said Doug Field, chief advanced product development and technology officer, Ford Motor Company. “Customers using BlueCruise are already experiencing the benefits of hands-off driving. The deep experience and talent in our Latitude team will help us accelerate the development of all-new automated driving technology – with the goal of not only making travel safer, less stressful and more enjoyable, but ultimately over time giving our customers some of their day back.

[rmc523]

14 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

 

Subscription based features are a key element of the automotive industry's future and can benefit automakers and customers alike when done properly. As mentioned in this Automotive World editorial, successful implementation of subscription business models for car features require clear, effective communication by the automakers. Is this the start of an automotive subscription trend? | Automotive World

 

Clear communication is where Ford missed the mark regarding the Blue Cruise pricing updates mentioned in the original post. Hopefully in the future, Ford does a better job of communicating details to dealers and customers from the onset and won't need to issue subsequent clarifications.

 

Please stop trying to sell me on the "key element of the auto industry future blah blah blah BEV=utopia blah blah schtick" that you use for everything.

 

Subscription for things is only a way to piss buyers off.

 

----

 

 

 

That said, I understand it's a constantly evolving product, and that there may be some sort of fee associated with that to have things constantly updating.  But when you're paying thousands of dollars upfront just to have the hardware, tacking on a $75/month / $800/year on top of paying for that "feature" is steep.  It needs to be in the $10-20 range max.

 

I've said it in other threads about this topic.....I also DO like the idea of being able to add ("turn on") a feature you didn't get with purchase at a later date that can be activated via software - but that should be any of 1a) a one time fee for permanent access (similar cost to a factory option) 1b) monthly payment option until "1a" cost is fulfilled, or 2) an slightly higher "on demand" monthly fee for access to the feature until you stop paying that fee....for example, let's say you want heated seats for November and December, you'd pay a fee for those two months and then it's turned off after that.

 

Shifting "mainstream" options to a subscription system is a terrible idea, though.

Edited May 23, 2023 by rmc523

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

Subscription for things is only a way to piss buyers off.

 

Maybe for stuff like heated seats or remote start, but Jim Farley isn't focused on that. Farley's vision for Ford involves increasing revenue by offering valuable new features that buyers are willing to pay for (hardware + software + subscription fees). ADAS systems like BlueCruise along with software and services from the Ford Pro business unit are good examples. Ford CEO Jim Farley Says ADAS Revenue Stream Will Be Massive (fordauthority.com)

 

When I [Jim Farley] see the pricing power for ADAS, not just at Tesla, but all of us have incredible… it feels like that’s the first shippable software that we could send to a car that customers are really willing to pay a lot of money for.

If we can get people to fall asleep in their car, give them 45 minutes back on their commute, they can go to work 45 minutes later, they can go home 45 minutes earlier. It won’t be $5,000. It’ll be tens of thousands of dollars. And so we’re about to change the ride, just like Apple and all the smartphone companies changed the call. And I believe when that happens, when you can ship a lot of software to the car and you have great sensors, really change that experience and be a lot more productive, there will be a large revenue expansion.

 

[rmc523]

46 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Maybe for stuff like heated seats or remote start, but Jim Farley isn't focused on that. Farley's vision for Ford involves increasing revenue by offering valuable new features that buyers are willing to pay for (hardware + software + subscription fees). ADAS systems like BlueCruise along with software and services from the Ford Pro business unit are good examples. Ford CEO Jim Farley Says ADAS Revenue Stream Will Be Massive (fordauthority.com)

 

I'm a Ford customer, having bought 3 Fords so far in my vehicle purchasing history.  I don't care what Farley thinks - I as a paying Ford customer don't want pay hundreds or thousands of dollars per year every year for features you already pay for in the vehicle purchase.  And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

There will be push back from customers if they try to charge too much.  And couple that with decontenting for higher prices that Ford likes to do lately, it's not a good combo long term.

[rperez817]

9 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

And couple that with decontenting for higher prices that Ford likes to do lately, it's not a good combo long term.

 

Good point rmc523. Ford's habit of decontenting its products while charging customers more needs to be dumped completely and permanently. On a positive note, it seems that Mustang Mach-E has avoided the infamous Ford "decontenting bot", as has BlueCruise. Both products have improved over time, with more and/or better features since introduction. Mustang Mach-E recently received a price reduction, too! 

[Chrisgb]

5 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

I'm a Ford customer, having bought 3 Fords so far in my vehicle purchasing history.  I don't care what Farley thinks - I as a paying Ford customer don't want pay hundreds or thousands of dollars per year every year for features you already pay for in the vehicle purchase.  And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

There will be push back from customers if they try to charge too much.  And couple that with decontenting for higher prices that Ford likes to do lately, it's not a good combo long term.

I think there will be a lot of developers out there that will write code to activate features, just like we have aftermarket hardware and 3rd party software today that is usually less cost than the OEM-branded items.

it may become possible to get a subscription added to your Xfinity or Apple CarPlay account to activate your Blue Cruise for only $29.95/mo, for example.

[silvrsvt]

10 hours ago, Chrisgb said:

I think there will be a lot of developers out there that will write code to activate features, just like we have aftermarket hardware and 3rd party software today that is usually less cost than the OEM-branded items.

it may become possible to get a subscription added to your Xfinity or Apple CarPlay account to activate your Blue Cruise for only $29.95/mo, for example.

 

From a cybersecurity perspective, I don't think that is going to happen-just look at locking down of ECUs to prevent them from being reprogramed to improve performance. 

 

Charging for an option that already comes with the car without offering a compelling reason to do so is going to be the nut that has to be cracked by auto manufactures if they want to have subscriptions in cars. Using the Sirius example-you can listen to it in the lower 48 states without ever changing your station to something different no matter where you are...even in heavily populated areas like mine, I had to switch between two stations due to the distance of the transmitters when I was driving to my one job. 

 

I really can't come up with anything compelling I would want to subscribe to that Ford may offer with the way I use my vehicle that I don't already have in it. 

[Gurgeh]

The 2024 Lincoln Nautilus I put a factory order in for includes 4 years of BC subscription. Wow, I had no idea the normal subscription costs would be so high. $75 a month is nuts. If it wasn't included in my purchase price (I know, I know... in the end I'm still paying for it due to the Lincoln premium) I wouldn't pay the subscription fee. I'm fine paying for the much smaller subscription for satellite radio, as that is a feature I use every day. I'd also be perfectly fine paying the lower SuperCruise type fee for BlueCruise. But $75/month for those occasional road trips? No way. The irony is, I was going back and forth between getting the 2024 Nautilus and the new Range Rover Sport. I went with the Nautilus in part because of the availability of the superior and superb BlueCruise driver's assistance package. Ford needs to rethink those prices if they want it to be the selling point that it deserves to be.

 

The two other factors in the decision is that I very much like the lower steering wheel and driver's information above the wheel instead of viewing it through the wheel. Oh, and the fact that it is about $20k less expensive. I'm not sure that I would have gone the other way on my decision if 4 years of BC weren't included in the purchase price of the new Nautilus, but at $75/month it might have.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Gurgeh

[akirby]

It’s a great money maker for mfrs because they get ongoing revenue after the sale.  And in some cases it costs the mfr to continue offering the service.  
 

It also makes sense for things that can be turned on or off with software but for those it might make more sense to do a one time purchase rather than a monthly subscription depending on the feature.

 

But just to get access to hardware that’s already installed like heated seats is silly.

[rperez817]

34 minutes ago, akirby said:

It also makes sense for things that can be turned on or off with software but for those it might make more sense to do a one time purchase rather than a monthly subscription depending on the feature.

 

But just to get access to hardware that’s already installed like heated seats is silly.

 

Ford hit the sweet spot with its strategy regarding subscription-based features in its vehicles. As mentioned earlier, Jim Farley isn't keen on Ford using subscriptions for stuff like heated seats in its cars and trucks. Farley is emphasizing high value features that are data intensive, such as BlueCruise and the Ford Pro Intelligence platform for fleet management software applications and services.

[rperez817]

Real world experience from Motor Trend involving subscription based features on their long-term F-150 Lightning. We’re Paying $650/Year to Subscribe to Our Ford F-150 Lightning (motortrend.com)

 

So, we're currently spending $54.12 per month (or $649.44 per year) on subscriptions for our F-150 Lightning, the bulk of which is going to Wi-Fi and Sirius. We're fine with that—for now. Given how many Mustang Mach-E owners have been surprised by looming steep subscription costs for features like BlueCruise after their trial periods end, we're a bit apprehensive to see what the future holds. Despite Ford's insistence that many of our Lightning's features, such as BlueCruise, are in "trial" periods, we still paid for the feature when we bought the truck. Though Ford is hardly unique in this regard—Toyota, Tesla, GM, and many others are actively embracing this model—charging us later to use it feels a bit disingenuous.

Regardless of what our F-150 Lightning's subscriptions end up costing, for new-car shoppers, there's little chance things will be easier or less complicated—or cheaper—in the months and years ahead.

[T-dubz]

1 hour ago, rperez817 said:

Real world experience from Motor Trend involving subscription based features on their long-term F-150 Lightning. We’re Paying $650/Year to Subscribe to Our Ford F-150 Lightning (motortrend.com)

 

 

 

They are spending $650 a year just for Sirius and WiFi? That seems crazy by itself. I can do the same thing for free with my phone’s hotspot and  music streaming apps. 
 

With that said, I wouldn’t consider sirius a car subscription. It can be used anywhere with the app, and you aren’t paying ford for the service.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by T-dubz

[silvrsvt]

4 hours ago, T-dubz said:

They are spending $650 a year just for Sirius and WiFi? That seems crazy by itself. I can do the same thing for free with my phone’s hotspot and  music streaming apps. 
 

With that said, I wouldn’t consider sirius a car subscription. It can be used anywhere with the app, and you aren’t paying ford for the service.

 

Well sounds like they got a top end sirius subscription-I think I pay like $100 a year for just music one. 

 

Not sure what they mean by wifi

 

[rperez817]

33 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

Not sure what they mean by wifi

 

In-car Wi-Fi hotspot from AT&T. In-Car Wi-Fi from AT&T (att.com) Motor Trend signed up for the 2 GB, $15/month plan after the 3GB/3 month trial expired.

[Captainp4]

Was curious how Tesla navigated this.. if I'm reading correctly, all of their cars come with Autopilot standard, but you can upgrade to Enhanced Auto Pilot or FSD at time of purchase (one time fee) or do a monthly subscription. If you did the one time fee with enhanced auto pilot, upgrading to FSD is 99/month, from standard autopilot to FSD is 199/month. One time fee for EAP is 6k, FSD is 12k. I believe all of their cars come with the hardware to make any of them work.

Not sure exactly where BlueCruise falls feature wise compared to these, but I think equal with autopilot (hands free highway driving basically)?? One of the features of EAP they state is self parking, which Ford has had for years (before Tesla if I'm remembering correctly).

https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/831/tesla-reintroduces-enhanced-autopilot-in-the-us-for-6k

 

I agree with everyone saying subscriptions for heated seats and stuff like that is stupid and won't work... I do know the FSD/bluecruise type stuff requires an incredible amount of data and processing and programming, there has to be some way to pay for all of that computing power being used. Not smart enough on that end to know exactly how much it takes to make it work,  but I understand the idea of a subscription to make it happen... unless they start pumping random ads into your car while you're driving lol

[rperez817]

On 5/23/2023 at 11:28 AM, rperez817 said:

What's really needed is to advance to SAE Level 4 as soon as possible. Ford made some excellent progress on that front about a year ago with its Argo AI robotaxi prototypes in Austin, Texas and Miami, but unfortunately Argo AI was shut down a few months later.

 

VW just brought ID Buzz prototype vehicles with SAE Level 4 autonomy technology from Mobileye to Texas. Testing will take place in Austin, just as Argo AI did before it was shut down. Hopefully Ford's new Latitude AI business unit will also focus on Level 4 systems. VW Autonomous Prototypes Heading to This Texas Town for Testing (autoweek.com)

 

[rperez817]

On 5/24/2023 at 10:56 AM, rperez817 said:

Ford hit the sweet spot with its strategy regarding subscription-based features in its vehicles. As mentioned earlier, Jim Farley isn't keen on Ford using subscriptions for stuff like heated seats in its cars and trucks. Farley is emphasizing high value features that are data intensive, such as BlueCruise and the Ford Pro Intelligence platform for fleet management software applications and services.

 

Ford announced today that it hired Peter Stern away from Apple to lead the new Ford Integrated Services operation. This puts Ford in a good position with its subscription-based software and service offerings and other digital revenue opportunities. Ford Hires Apple Veteran Peter Stern to Lead New Era of Customer Experiences Powered by Software and Services | Ford Media Center

 

Highlights.

• Stern is named president of newly formed Ford Integrated Services; was formerly vice president of Services at Apple, where he oversaw Apple TV+, iCloud, Apple News+, Apple Books, Apple Arcade, Apple One and Apple Fitness+
• Reporting to Ford President and CEO Jim Farley, he will build a world-class team to create and market innovative customer experiences by integrating hardware, software and services across Ford Blue, Model e and Ford Pro
• The moves accelerate the Ford+ strategy to transform the company by building sustained, always-on customer relationships and capturing new, high-margin services, subscription and other digital revenue
• Stern will build out the business tied to Ford’s BlueCruise hands-free driving system as well as productivity and safety/security services, and oversee new physical services, services marketing and Ford Next

[rmc523]

18 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Ford announced today that it hired Peter Stern away from Apple to lead the new Ford Integrated Services operation. This puts Ford in a good position with its subscription-based software and service offerings and other digital revenue opportunities. Ford Hires Apple Veteran Peter Stern to Lead New Era of Customer Experiences Powered by Software and Services | Ford Media Center

 

Highlights.

• Stern is named president of newly formed Ford Integrated Services; was formerly vice president of Services at Apple, where he oversaw Apple TV+, iCloud, Apple News+, Apple Books, Apple Arcade, Apple One and Apple Fitness+
• Reporting to Ford President and CEO Jim Farley, he will build a world-class team to create and market innovative customer experiences by integrating hardware, software and services across Ford Blue, Model e and Ford Pro
• The moves accelerate the Ford+ strategy to transform the company by building sustained, always-on customer relationships and capturing new, high-margin services, subscription and other digital revenue
• Stern will build out the business tied to Ford’s BlueCruise hands-free driving system as well as productivity and safety/security services, and oversee new physical services, services marketing and Ford Next

 

Cool, where do we email him to tell him we don't want subscription everything?

[tbone]

11 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Cool, where do we email him to tell him we don't want subscription everything?

Yeah, no kidding!  If they think they are going to enhance “customer experiences” by charging people for things they can currently get for free, it will have negative consequences IMO.  

[rperez817]

8 hours ago, tbone said:

If they think they are going to enhance “customer experiences” by charging people for things they can currently get for free, it will have negative consequences IMO.  

 

Ford is aware of that, that's why Jim Farley wooed Peter Stern from Apple. Both Stern and Farley are focused on offering significant value to customers with its upcoming subscription-based services and software. Ford Hires Apple Software Exec With a Plan for Subscription Services (motortrend.com)

 

The auto industry is littered with bad choices about subscription services, says Ford CEO Jim Farley. He wants to avoid them as Ford works to aggressively expand subscription services and has hired a high-profile Apple exec to develop, integrate and market them for the U.S. automaker. Ford will not follow the lead of companies charging customers to activate their heated steering wheels or seats or e-commerce ability, Farley stressed to media on a call to introduce Peter Stern, president of the newly formed Ford Integrated Services.

Ford is generating hundreds of millions of dollars now in revenue with gross margins of more than 50 percent and Farley says he expects 10 times that in the coming years.

Farley and Stern are convinced customers will embrace new technology and be willing to pay for it if it improves their lives. Ford is not nickel-and-diming people, Stern says. The company is offering significant value. Customers will want to sign up for a safer, more convenient, more productive time and experience with their vehicles.

[rmc523]

2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Ford is aware of that, that's why Jim Farley wooed Peter Stern from Apple. Both Stern and Farley are focused on offering significant value to customers with its upcoming subscription-based services and software. Ford Hires Apple Software Exec With a Plan for Subscription Services (motortrend.com)

 

 

 

 

That's just code for "make sure the subscription price we do have offers value to the customer"...

[rperez817]

46 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

"make sure the subscription price we do have offers value to the customer"...

 

Going back to the original post in this thread, Peter Stern's experience at Apple should ensure that not only does Ford provide high value services and software offerings to customers, but also avoid inconsistent  and confusing messaging about the pricing and terms for those offerings, as what happened with the BlueCruise pricing updates for Mustang Mach-E earlier this year.

 

Apple has applied the subscription-based business model for both hardware and software better than any other company in the world by delivering value to the customer and making the experience easy.

Edited August 16, 2023 by rperez817

[T-dubz]

Have you used any of those apple services? Arcade has crap games, news+ makes you pay for stories you could literally get anywhere else, tv+ is low man on the totem pole when it comes to streamers. Those are all money grabs, and most of them are offered for free through certain phone carriers.  
 

The Apple model I like is every year I get a free update that brings several new features. What are the chances he brings that over from Apple??

[silvrsvt]

9 hours ago, T-dubz said:

news+ makes you pay for stories you could literally get anywhere else,

 

Most news stories are now behind a paywall anyways. I see that on my google news aggregator also. I thought if you subscribed to News+ it would take care of that?