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Ford introducing new 7 seat EV CUV in 2025 with 350 miles of range


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On 6/5/2023 at 11:51 AM, T-dubz said:


my brain cannot comprehend how that image and an oversized edge could ever be compared to each other ?

I see no Edge but then again we have to see the vehicle unveiled that person seen the vehicle so maybe there is some truth to it?

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2 hours ago, T-dubz said:

I don’t really see it either. The profiles are completely different. Mach-e has a coupe like appearance where as the blue on looks more like a traditional suv.

I’m in the same camp.  To me there are only some very modest cues, otherwise the designs look sufficiently different.  

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8 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

 

There’s room for 3 EVs OAC is huge 2 plants merged into 1 like MAP was. We were told we were getting 5 EVs which I felt was BS so if they wanted they can add a third which I’m very skeptical will happen! 

Ford and Lincoln really need a new mid-sized, 2-row product to replace the outgoing Edge and the Nautilus soon to be imported from China (hopefully only as a stop-gap measure). It is less urgent on the Ford side of things, since they have the hot-selling Bronco, but soon FMC will lack anything that serves the role of a roomy family car with seating for less than 7.

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Jim Farley says the Edge is a commodity product and that there is a glut of two row crossovers. I guess there is room for growth in the 3 row EV crossover segment in Fords eyes. Like you said maybe Bronco Escape Maverick etc etc will gain sells from this void in the line up for now.

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8 hours ago, tbone said:

I’m in the same camp.  To me there are only some very modest cues, otherwise the designs look sufficiently different.  


I guess you guys are looking at the tiniest details whereas I’m looking at more general shapes.

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33 minutes ago, akirby said:


I guess you guys are looking at the tiniest details whereas I’m looking at more general shapes.

Sorry man, I'm just not seeing it. 

1 hour ago, Oacjay98 said:

Jim Farley says the Edge is a commodity product and that there is a glut of two row crossovers. I guess there is room for growth in the 3 row EV crossover segment in Fords eyes. Like you said maybe Bronco Escape Maverick etc etc will gain sells from this void in the line up for now.

It really is a problem. The mach-e and bronco are both great two row SUVs. But they're at a higher price points, and don't really appeal to casual consumers.

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1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

It really is a problem. The mach-e and bronco are both great two row SUVs. But they're at a higher price points, and don't really appeal to casual consumers.

 

Ford rather chase a market that isn't being sold alone on price...the Bronco and Mach E fill that no problem and have demand.

 

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30 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Ford rather chase a market that isn't being sold alone on price...the Bronco and Mach E fill that no problem and have demand.

 

I agree, going off price alone tends to lead to race to the bottom price slashing. I support the direction ford is going in. I love how they're trying to phase out generic, bland products. I'm just worried on how your mainstream consumer who's not really into cars will react. An enthusiast will have no issue paying more for a more exciting product, but most of the mainstream consumers I've talked to are very price sensitive when it comes to cars. 

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All this talk and speculation about the tiniest details was amusing and entertaining at first but now getting very tired. I'll wait to form an opinion once we see an actual product. My overall opinion of current SUV products isn't favorable in the sense that they mostly look alike with few, if any, distinctive styling cues. The design sketches, exercises and illustrations look like they were designed by a committee! Someone at Ford should let the designers loose and encourage them to present all-new designs that they'd like to see in production, instead of having to work under all the constraints and input imposed by a "management by committee" approach. 

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1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

I agree, going off price alone tends to lead to race to the bottom price slashing. I support the direction ford is going in. I love how they're trying to phase out generic, bland products. I'm just worried on how your mainstream consumer who's not really into cars will react. An enthusiast will have no issue paying more for a more exciting product, but most of the mainstream consumers I've talked to are very price sensitive when it comes to cars. 


It’s a big market and nobody has more than 20% market share.  All that matters is can you sell all the products you can make at a reasonable profit?  Don’t you think Kia would swap their entire car lineup for Ford F series volume and profits if they could?

 

Customers who are price sensitive are not brand loyal so why chase them and sacrifice profits when they’ll defect to another brand with a better price?  
 

More importantly Maverick and Bronco Sport prove you can have exciting emotional products at lower price points.

 

Your point would be more valid if Ford was losing market share but they’re not.  Quite the opposite.

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Obviously need to wait until we actually see it, but looks "weird" under the cover. I've thought that Ford's main advantage in the BEV space so far has been making the vehicles look "normal" and not like some space age thing. Lightning, Transit, and even Mach-E look manage to look like a normal ICE vehicle that just so happens to be powered by a battery. Tesla manages good aero without going over the top and making them strange looking (cyber truck excluded, but I'd guess that's bad aero just for the sake of being weird/"futuristic"). The GM EV products are weird just to be weird and prove they're different it seems like. I guess there's a market for that, but personally don't think Ford needs to be there.

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45 minutes ago, Captainp4 said:

Obviously need to wait until we actually see it, but looks "weird" under the cover. I've thought that Ford's main advantage in the BEV space so far has been making the vehicles look "normal" and not like some space age thing. Lightning, Transit, and even Mach-E look manage to look like a normal ICE vehicle that just so happens to be powered by a battery. Tesla manages good aero without going over the top and making them strange looking (cyber truck excluded, but I'd guess that's bad aero just for the sake of being weird/"futuristic"). The GM EV products are weird just to be weird and prove they're different it seems like. I guess there's a market for that, but personally don't think Ford needs to be there.


I still think this is 100% driven by the desire for a super functional people hauler at a lower price point.  Lower price requires simpler design and cheaper batteries.  Range requires less weight and super aerodynamics on such a large vehicle.

 

This doesn’t mean there won’t be a more traditionally styled more expensive BEV 3 row utility.

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3 minutes ago, akirby said:


I still think this is 100% driven by the desire for a super functional people hauler at a lower price point.  Lower price requires simpler design and cheaper batteries.  Range requires less weight and super aerodynamics on such a large vehicle.

 

This doesn’t mean there won’t be a more traditionally styled more expensive BEV 3 row utility.


Yeah, I get that, but thought we were getting away from volume low margin things and moving to desirable high margin product at Ford? The story is all over the place. Killing commodity ICE to replace with commodity EV doesn't compute. They managed a desirable product at a low price point with Maverick, I just don't know about this thing. But, it's all speculation until we actually see it, hopefully it's not that silver thing from the last page lol

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17 minutes ago, Captainp4 said:


Yeah, I get that, but thought we were getting away from volume low margin things and moving to desirable high margin product at Ford? The story is all over the place. Killing commodity ICE to replace with commodity EV doesn't compute. They managed a desirable product at a low price point with Maverick, I just don't know about this thing. But, it's all speculation until we actually see it, hopefully it's not that silver thing from the last page lol


Commodity?  There are no low priced seven seat BEVs that I know of.  It’s the opposite of commodity.

 

Dont confuse low price with low profit margin.

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2 minutes ago, akirby said:


Commodity?  There are no low priced seven seat BEVs that I know of.  It’s the opposite of commodity.

 

Dont confuse low price with low profit margin.


I'd agree if we're talking about Tesla that already has the volume and supplier issues figured out, but Ford can't turn a profit on the EVs they're building now. Hopefully they can get things ramped soon and start making money. I don't see a low price compliance looking product being that path (again, based on a covered car, could be amazing looking when they take the cover off). I guess we'll find out soon enough if Farley took enough notes from Elon. Also found out my MKC is recalled today and might burn my house down so I'm a little salty at F right now ?

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38 minutes ago, Captainp4 said:


I'd agree if we're talking about Tesla that already has the volume and supplier issues figured out, but Ford can't turn a profit on the EVs they're building now. Hopefully they can get things ramped soon and start making money. I don't see a low price compliance looking product being that path (again, based on a covered car, could be amazing looking when they take the cover off). I guess we'll find out soon enough if Farley took enough notes from Elon. Also found out my MKC is recalled today and might burn my house down so I'm a little salty at F right now ?


But the current EVs are on modified ICE platforms.  This is 2 years out, will be built on a dedicated EV platform I’m a dedicated EV factory with a simplified design and cheaper batteries.  I see no reason this can’t sell for $40k with a 10% margin.  

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3 hours ago, akirby said:


But the current EVs are on modified ICE platforms.  This is 2 years out, will be built on a dedicated EV platform I’m a dedicated EV factory with a simplified design and cheaper batteries.  I see no reason this can’t sell for $40k with a 10% margin.  

A 7 seater ev for 40k would be a game changer. Would be cool to see if Ford could pull that off. That could be how Ford succeeds in the ev market long term. While everyone else is making brick shaped EVs that need massive and expensive batteries to achieve any meaningful range, Ford could offer EVs with shorter ranges, but that had a much lower starting price while still being profitable. Time will tell. 

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On 6/7/2023 at 1:53 PM, silvrsvt said:

 

I think that is the smarter bet..why offer two products that can directly compete with one another when you can bring in a new product and possibly new customers to the brand then wind down the current ICE products as time goes down with a new product that will be even more improved?

 

I'd venture to guess this will be something like the Flex-a polarizing product that will have a small and dedicated following.

 

I'm curious as to how well the Blazer and Equinox EVs do when competing against the gas powered versions of the same nameplate..will they grow sales or just divide them up even more with just small gains?

 

There's also the flip side of establishing your presence in that segment early and as the segment leader if you're in early.

 

9 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

Jim Farley says the Edge is a commodity product and that there is a glut of two row crossovers. I guess there is room for growth in the 3 row EV crossover segment in Fords eyes. Like you said maybe Bronco Escape Maverick etc etc will gain sells from this void in the line up for now.

 

I get the idea, but at the same time, eventually every segment could become a commodity product.....so are they just going to close up shop?

 

It's just annoying to see them in multiple segments basically say "we can't do it, bye"

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

It's just annoying to see them in multiple segments basically say "we can't do it, bye"


Not can’t do it - not worth doing when there are other options.   If you run out of better options then you may have to take lower margins.

 

They’re not just dropping models they’re replacing them with new ones.

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2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

There's also the flip side of establishing your presence in that segment early and as the segment leader if you're in early.

 

 

I get the idea, but at the same time, eventually every segment could become a commodity product.....so are they just going to close up shop?

 

It's just annoying to see them in multiple segments basically say "we can't do it, bye"

I hated them cancelling some models and hate that they’re ditching and not redesigning the Edge in N/A but some of the replacement products that they have come out with have been excellent too like the Bronco and Maverick for example. 

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1 hour ago, akirby said:


Not can’t do it - not worth doing when there are other options.   If you run out of better options then you may have to take lower margins.

 

They’re not just dropping models they’re replacing them with new ones.

Good point 

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11 hours ago, akirby said:

They’re not just dropping models they’re replacing them with new ones.

 

In the grand scheme of things, the Edge was actually replaced by three products- the four door Bronco, 2 door Bronco and the Mach E in price/size

 

The Bronco appeals to the outdoorsy type and offers a convertible experience.

 

The Mach E appeals to sporty/trendy segment

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2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

In the grand scheme of things, the Edge was actually replaced by three products- the four door Bronco, 2 door Bronco and the Mach E in price/size

 

The Bronco appeals to the outdoorsy type and offers a convertible experience.

 

The Mach E appeals to sporty/trendy segment


Not sure I agree about 2 door Bronco.  I think Bronco Sport is in the mix for sure even though it’s smaller.

 

It still leaves a huge void in the lineup for folks who do t want a Bronco or BEV.  Edge and Nautilus are in the sweet spot - not too small and not too big.  Unfortunately that’s also what makes the segment crowded and super competitive.  I thought the ST model would give Ford an edge (pun intended) over the others but while it is a popular model it never really moved the needle much.

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17 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

A 7 seater ev for 40k would be a game changer. Would be cool to see if Ford could pull that off. That could be how Ford succeeds in the ev market long term. While everyone else is making brick shaped EVs that need massive and expensive batteries to achieve any meaningful range, Ford could offer EVs with shorter ranges, but that had a much lower starting price while still being profitable. Time will tell. 


40k seems a stretch for such a large vehicle if with acceptable driving range, but I do agree that unless aerodynamics are excellent, there is no chance whatsoever.

 

As a point of reference, the most efficient EV according to Car and Driver list is now Hyundai Ionic 6.  It comes with a standard 53 kWh battery which keeps price lower, just above $40k, but with limited range.  The extended-range 77.4 kWh larger battery gives it 361 miles of combined range while still keeping starting price under $50k.

 

When C&D tested the long-range RWD Ionic 6 in their steady 75 MPH highway loop, the range was reduced to 260 miles.  And that’s with a car that has a coefficient of drag of just 0.22 according to Hyundai.  It confirms that when driving at normal Interstate speeds, BEVs have to be very aerodynamic or else will be a huge disappointment.

 

Ford Lightning with extended range 131 kWh battery, when using C&D 75 MPH test data, and Ford charging data, on a very long road trip would need to charge every 150 miles (2 hours of driving) requiring at least 44 minutes to charge from 15 to 80 percent, so stop would likely take an hour or longer by time driver gets off highway, plugs in, and gets back on road.  I could never spend 1/3 of my time associated with charging.

 

For drivers who want a BEV suitable for long road trips, I don’t see a way around sleek aerodynamic shapes until battery capacity and charging rates improve significantly.  Yeah, the Ionic 6 doesn’t look great to me, but at least it functions better on paper than most BEVs.

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