Lincoln MKX Review

[Blue II]

If you take out the "fleet sales" from that, where's the BS on this?

People love to compare Lincoln with the rebadges from Honda and Toyota. I just don't see the point even in that defense.

 

Concept to production rebadges, or their way of doing flexible manufacturing:

 

 

Now Ford's way of doing it 90% of the time:

 

 

You might not like his comments, but what he said is far from being BS, and is the reason why "Lincoln's progression from absolutely nothing to almost nothing will hardly be a triumph". He was also right on the fire sales and similar tactics for the Zephyr.

 

They need less MKX's and MKZzzz's, and more stuff done like the MKS.

 

That is a great shot of the rear of the original Zephyr concept car. I often wonder why they made the production Zephyr different?

[kyle]

I'm saying you can't get the same nav system, the same stereo system, the same quality leather seats, cooled seats, or the same interior surfaces, etc., in the Edge. Hence the price difference. It's not the same thing.

 

Your indifference to the interior doodadery on the MKX does not prove that there exists no market for such equipment, especially since the MKX underprices the RX and MDX by an amount similar to the difference between the Edge and Murano.

 

Finally, the MKZ is a success, per Ford's expectations. Any other argle-bargle about whether it's a success is a waste of time. I'm sure that where the MKZ is a success to Ford execs, the G35 is something of a disappointment to Nissan, as G35 volume is down a not insubstantial amount year over year.

 

 

so you would pay the extra $$ for the unique (my ass) leather seats, etc.? It is a shame that for the last 5 years they have done nothing with the brand....and I will blame it all on a floundering change in management. I think it will change because well for one they have been saying it for the last what 5 years that it will...but still a disappointmnet.

 

And I for one would take a G35 anyday over the zephyr...hell I would take my 97 528 over the zephyr. I am just a big fan of rwd cars in that category. And let's see what happens to the mkz sales in the next few years.

 

and is it only me or does anyone else have a problem with mkx, mkz, etc. At first I thought it was a good idea but now it is just way to fucking confusing!

[RichardJensen]

so you would pay the extra $$ for the unique (my ass) leather seats, etc.?

Yeah. And they do use better leather.

 

It's always a bad idea to project your preferences on an entire market. People at the top of Ford and GM have been doing it for decades. Look where it's gotten them.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

While, up until the release of the AWD 3.5L MkZ, I would have taken the G35 over the Zephyr any day; I'd like to see a head to head of the new 07 G35X and the AWD MkZ (Maybe also including the quattro Audi that best competes, which I think is a stripper quattro A6 for size reasons, the 4matic C350 Mercedes, and a an AWD stripped down BMW 5 series again for size reasons). Granted, the G35 and the MkZ will lead on price, but, given the size catagories of the vehicles, excluding price, its about as fair as it will get. (Yes, I know that the C class is a bit small, but, the E and S are just too large).

 

Personally, though, I'd still likely buy the G35 RWD sport package. I think that, for driving excitement, vs roominess of the car, I'd prefer that to any of its competition. The IS350 would be my next choice. The BMW330i being my third. Ford just doesn't have anything in the stable that interests me. The only thing that would would be a sedan done off the next gen mustang platform that was upcontented for Mercury or Lincoln. And that's likely to be a BIG stretch.

 

(Edited for Grammer)

Edited October 27, 2006 by old_fairmont_wagon

[kyle]

Yeah. And they do use better leather.

 

It's always a bad idea to project your preferences on an entire market. People at the top of Ford and GM have been doing it for decades. Look where it's gotten them.

 

 

yah $4k better leather!

 

yah look where GM and Ford have got with their wonderful brand management. Which is exactly why I am puzzled why anyone would defend certain product right now... they are in this mess because they fail to differentiate their product and update it enough. When you continuously dilute the brand this way this is what happens. Now if lincoln had a different look and interior I would give them a lot more credit but they don't.

 

VW has this same issue over in Europe...they have multiple brands and are having a problem with people buying their vw brand as opposed to skoda. The interiors, engines and look are almost identical.

[RichardJensen]

Which is exactly why I am puzzled why anyone would defend certain product right now...

Baby steps, Kyle.

[Edstock]

"Personally, though, I'd still likely buy the G35 RWD sport package."

 

That's one sweet sled, and a legitimate target for Lincoln.

 

The 3.5 with direct injection could be tuned to the low 300's. Add the quick R-type Volvo Haldex AWD stuff and a 6-speed DSG like the Borg-Warner unit VW uses, and voila! — the MK Z/R.

[igor]

"Personally, though, I'd still likely buy the G35 RWD sport package."

 

That's one sweet sled, and a legitimate target for Lincoln.

 

The 3.5 with direct injection could be tuned to the low 300's. Add the quick R-type Volvo Haldex AWD stuff and a 6-speed DSG like the Borg-Warner unit VW uses, and voila! — the MK Z/R.

 

 

I Am still waiting for Ford to figure out how to turn Haldex in to full time AWD system ..

 

we shall wait and be rewarded - I hope.

 

Anyways - I would get the G35 over MKZ because of RWD - and the better engine - but have no doubt that if ford continues to work on the Cyclones, the Haldex and the MKZ, the baby-lincoln will mature to a formidable competitor.

 

(PS: I would actually probably get BMW335 but you get the point)

Igor

[RichardJensen]

That's one sweet sled, and a legitimate target for Lincoln.

I guess.

 

As long as you don't mind losing sales.

 

The G35 is down 17% year over year.

[Ralph Greene]

I am one who will pay extra for a Ford product bought thru a Lincoln Mercury dealership.

 

You get a little extra content and get treaded a whole lot different. I don't think after all the dealing is done, you pay much more. We are looking forward to buying another car this year from our Lincoln mercury dealership.

 

This may sound like an elitist attutude, but I much prefer the environment and treatment of my Montego dealership VS what I would have to put up with at a typical Ford dealership with a Five Hundred. It's juat a whole other world of treatment. Check it out.

[pcsario]

For all of you that are bitching about the MKZ, name one other vehicle in the same segment that makes 263 hp or more with AWD on unleaded 87 for just about $33,000. NAME ONE! I bet you $100 none of you can find one. When it was the Zepher, yeah that argument about being a rebadge held true but not with the new motor and AWD.

 

On those requirements alone?

 

 

ALL NEW 2007 RWD based G35 with 300+ HP for $33,950 (AWD). I would gladly pay the less than a grand premium over the rebadged Fusion just for the RWD and the 300+ HP alone.

 

Doesn't look like something my grandpa would drive, offers more room, and it's a steal to begin with, and unlike the MKZ, the luxury package only makes the car even better (std. equipment is quite generous), not "makes the car". BTW Fuel prices aren't an issue to most buyers in that segment to begin with; wanna make a big deal out of that? You're talking to the wrong crowd.

 

Engine refinement is far more important.

Edited October 27, 2006 by pcsario

[Edstock]

"I Am still waiting for Ford to figure out how to turn Haldex in to full time AWD system .."

 

That's why I mentioned the R-type Volvo Haldex stuff; IIRC, the hydraulics are 'pre-loaded', reacting in 1/7th of a turn. With that kind of reactive time, it is essentially a full-time AWD system, given the slippage that happens continuously in 'spirited' driving.

 

But, you have a point, as the fuel savings from FWD-only operation are probably insignificant, so why bother switching back and forth?

[igor]

"I Am still waiting for Ford to figure out how to turn Haldex in to full time AWD system .."

 

That's why I mentioned the R-type Volvo Haldex stuff; IIRC, the hydraulics are 'pre-loaded', reacting in 1/7th of a turn. With that kind of reactive time, it is essentially a full-time AWD system, given the slippage that happens continuously in 'spirited' driving.

 

But, you have a point, as the fuel savings from FWD-only operation are probably insignificant, so why bother switching back and forth?

that is interesting..

 

I mostly thought about the way Subaru can advertise its AWD system - and the way it is perceived as "performance feature" while the Haldex is still perceived as "safety" feature...

 

but I guess yo uare right - that the Haldex performs as well as the 50/50 Subaru system.

 

Igor

[Ralph Greene]

BTW....re car pricing.....And this is a negative for Ford/Lincoln Mercoln vehicles.

 

I'm not particularly sensitive to what a car costs, but am sensitive to how much and how quickly it depreciates. That's my cost plus opportunity costs.

The Japanese and German cars have been better in the past in this regard...as a very general statement.

[kyle]

Baby steps, Kyle.

 

 

baby steps......they are in the car business and have been for the past 100 years! Now if they just started making cars 40 years ago and were making motorcycles (or Zero's!) before that I may give them some excuses....but the fact of the matter is that they have no one to blame but themselves....and it is not just ford-it is all three domestic car companies that have failed to put product front and center since the 80's.

 

 

 

 

 

that is interesting..

 

I mostly thought about the way Subaru can advertise its AWD system - and the way it is perceived as "performance feature" while the Haldex is still perceived as "safety" feature...

 

but I guess yo uare right - that the Haldex performs as well as the 50/50 Subaru system.

 

Igor

 

 

the subaru that operates 50/50 is with their manual transmission only. the one with an automatic will split the system to 90/10

 

and my guess is why subaru advertises it to be performance related is because when they first went awd in 96 (100% in the states) it was sold as safety...when they brought in the wrx the message was modified....subaru builds a hell of a car and their awd system is probably the best around.

[RichardJensen]

they have no one to blame but themselves

That's beside the point.

 

The point is that Ford is basically starting over with Lincoln. They took a decade off from the car business (LS excepted), and because of that, they have to begin again from scratch.

 

That means doing what Toyota did when they built Lexus from scratch: start with marginally differentiated (as opposed to the competition) products and build a reputation for quality and comparative value.

 

Scattering blame is not central to the issue, and in all fairness, has already been done liberally by many on this board and even more off it. Saying "they have no one to blame but themselves" does not point toward any solution whatsoever. It merely reminds the current management of Ford Motor that they are sleeping in the bed made by Nasser and Trotman, with the cooperation of the Board.

[kyle]

That's beside the point.

 

The point is that Ford is basically starting over with Lincoln. They took a decade off from the car business (LS excepted), and because of that, they have to begin again from scratch.

 

That means doing what Toyota did when they built Lexus from scratch: start with marginally differentiated (as opposed to the competition) products and build a reputation for quality and comparative value.

 

Scattering blame is not central to the issue, and in all fairness, has already been done liberally by many on this board and even more off it. Saying "they have no one to blame but themselves" does not point toward any solution whatsoever. It merely reminds the current management of Ford Motor that they are sleeping in the bed made by Nasser and Trotman, with the cooperation of the Board.

 

 

don't disagree one bit... but they are in the automotive business and have been talking about it for the past 6-7 years about creating unique products for their brands not just rebadging the product and besides the LS have not done shit

 

I think things are settling down and we will see modest changes 3 years from now but it is still a long way off and the competition is not letting up....

 

I guess.

 

As long as you don't mind losing sales.

 

The G35 is down 17% year over year.

 

 

just about every vehicle's sales slump right before it is replaced so that position means nothing...now if next years they are down 17% then it will be different.....

[Edstock]

"we will see modest changes 3 years from now"

 

Maybe, then again, maybe not.

 

3 years from now is the MY 2010. You might have a modest all-new C1 Focus and a modest all-new d3 and CD3, plus a modest Mustang redo after the scheduled one was sent back to the drawing board because it was too modest. Plus a modest B car and other vehicles Ford hasn't told us about because they're going through final adjustments.

[DCK]

I'm sure that where the MKZ is a success to Ford execs, the G35 is something of a disappointment to Nissan, as G35 volume is down a not insubstantial amount year over year.

You really always constantly prove yourself to be an idiot....................actually no I take that back you're not an idiot you're actually somewhat intellegent what I should say is you constantly prove to everyone just how far up Ford's ass you're head is.

 

I guess.

 

As long as you don't mind losing sales.

 

The G35 is down 17% year over year.

Of course a new one is coming but you just so easily seem to leave that out of mention. I am not even a fan of Infiniti but jesus you're really pathetic bashing infiniti almost as pathetic as when igor tried to show how successful Lincoln is by outselling infiniti.

 

One thing for sure is with the new g35 Infiniti absolutely dominates Lincoln in the Luxury field as far as vehicles are concerned..............................and you made me say it.

[RichardJensen]

have been talking about it for the past 6-7 years

Past is dead and gone. Complaining about what was said and what was not done over the last several years is fruitless.

 

Look at the vehicle launches from Ford since 2004:

 

Five Hundred/Freestyle, Fusion, Edge.

 

Each successive entry has been better matched to customer demands. This is not accidental. You go from the competent but bland Five Hundred/Freestyle to the Edge (which will have waiting lists), in two years. That's not nothing. Especially since there was a FOUR YEAR gap between the Escape and the Five Hundred, where Ford did NOTHING with cars.

Edited October 27, 2006 by RichardJensen

[DCK]

That's beside the point.

 

The point is that Ford is basically starting over with Lincoln. They took a decade off from the car business (LS excepted), and because of that, they have to begin again from scratch.

 

That means doing what Toyota did when they built Lexus from scratch: start with marginally differentiated (as opposed to the competition) products and build a reputation for quality and comparative value.

 

Scattering blame is not central to the issue, and in all fairness, has already been done liberally by many on this board and even more off it. Saying "they have no one to blame but themselves" does not point toward any solution whatsoever. It merely reminds the current management of Ford Motor that they are sleeping in the bed made by Nasser and Trotman, with the cooperation of the Board.

Finally a valid point, but you can't compare Lincoln to Lexus. Lexus was a new brand and could easily established a good reputation with their products. Lincoln is completely damaged and the name is tarnished along with its reputation. I believe the best example in Lincolns case would be to follow Cadillac as they were in a similar situation.

[waymondospiff]

Finally a valid point, but you can't compare Lincoln to Lexus. Lexus was a new brand and could easily established a good reputation with their products. Lincoln is completely damaged and the name is tarnished along with its reputation. I believe the best example in Lincolns case would be to follow Cadillac as they were in a similar situation.

I wrote this in another thread, but it fits here too. I agree that I'd love to see Lincoln have a premium, RWD, flexible chassis like Cadillac's Sigma. However, with Ford's limited funds, Ford would need to *not* develop another product to remake Lincoln. Abandon one market segment for another.

 

Which would you choose? Should Ford dump the B-Class cars? Keep the Focus around even longer? Perhaps leave the Fusion or Five Hundred to sit around for 10 years without updates. Maybe the F-Series is okay without updates? For every choice there is a downside - and Ford needs to weigh the pros & cons of every choice. If Lincoln can exist with rebadges for 5 years while Ford revamps the higher volume Ford lineup, and THEN reinvests in Lincoln with unique products is that an okay solution?

 

Much like you, I'd prefer to see a fancy RWD Lincoln lineup that toasts Cadillac & Infiniti, but not at the expense of Ford's bread-and-butter products. A healthy Ford circa 2010, if the "Way Forward" actually works, will be in a much better place to invest the billions needed to make a full lineup of competitive Lincolns.

 

Of course, why Lincoln couldn't have ONE nice RWD sedan that shares heavily from the upcoming S-Type is another question...

 

Scott

[Edstock]

"I agree that I'd love to see Lincoln have a premium, RWD, flexible chassis like Cadillac's Sigma."

 

I tend to agree. But Audi has shown with their A-8 and A-6, that AWD with 8-, 10- and 12-cylinder engines is OK, too.

[kyle]

Past is dead and gone. Complaining about what was said and what was not done over the last several years is fruitless.

 

Look at the vehicle launches from Ford since 2004:

 

Five Hundred/Freestyle, Fusion, Edge.

 

Each successive entry has been better matched to customer demands. This is not accidental. You go from the competent but bland Five Hundred/Freestyle to the Edge (which will have waiting lists), in two years. That's not nothing. Especially since there was a FOUR YEAR gap between the Escape and the Five Hundred, where Ford did NOTHING with cars.

 

 

Don't have a problem forgetting about the past but I think-hell I know- I should not be seeing product come into today's market without different sheetmetal and interiors, let alone platform, etc.

 

At the end of the day it is just disappointing-kind of like your favorite sport's team coming out and playing flat-no game plan-no energy-just showing up-well that my friend is not good enough.

[RichardJensen]

At the end of the day it is just disappointing-kind of like your favorite sport's team coming out and playing flat-no game plan-no energy-just showing up-well that my friend is not good enough.

Well, I guess if the auto business were just like football (or whatever competitive sport you prefer).

 

You can be disappointed, but what's that accomplish? Nothing. You don't even get to feel all smug and superior, like if you were in charge, dagnabbit, things would be different.

 

The reality is that Lincoln was non-existent in the crossover field. Completely out of it some 8 years after Lexus launched the RX.

 

Now they have a vehicle with a largely original interior, and unique front and rear bumpers, grille, tailgate, fenders, and hood.

 

Is it a slam dunk?

 

No.

 

But it's better than nothing, which is where Lincoln was before.

 

As Waymondospiff said, you can try to get everything all at once, like GM did with Cadillac, but look at GM--they're down across the board this year. And, long term, I don't know that pushing Cadillac that far out of its historical mold will even be sustainable.