Ford is done with making boring cars

[akirby]

3 hours ago, Biker16 said:

The official inflation between 2014 and 2024 is 33% not the 48% we have seen in new cars.

Because people are buying far more per trucks and SUVs and far less cheap cars.

[Biker16]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

Because people are buying far more per trucks and SUVs and far less cheap cars.

 

Maybe because the automakers gave up on seling affordable vehicles, because they were less profitable for them.

 

The US auto market is shrinking under the weight of high prices and high interest rates.

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-new-vehicle-sales-q3-seen-be-growing-weaker-pace-2024-10-01/

 

[akirby]

Car sales were dropping for years before any of them got cancelled.  But don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative.

[ANTAUS]

But on a side matter, consumer buying habits.. (I think people buy more than they should or can afford), vehicle lifespans, people holding onto vehicles longer... I have friends buying their kids (on a teachers salary in Florida LOL) new vehicles...knowing her in HS where she made a 20 year old vehicle work back then... At what point does a market crash, because its not sustainable....?

[akirby]

It won’t crash but there will be corrections and prices will come down if necessary.

[jpd80]

With so many trucks and utilities on the road, it’s no wonder that many in cars are giving up

and joining the higher vehicle team. In car parks, a bit of heigh helps when moving out of

a parked area, the higher H point also helps when driving in traffic too, older people find

it’s easier to slip in and out of a slightly higher vehicle…lots of advantages.

 

The real nail in the coffin was when the EPA sunk the boot into car fuel economy targets,

it simply wasn’t worth the cost of producing low margin cars that cost more to meet those

tougher CAFE foot print fuel economy targets. Gov o, manufacturers and buyers were

all on the same page.

Edited October 10, 2024 by jpd80

[Sherminator98]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

The real nail in the coffin was when the EPA sunk the boot into car fuel economy targets,

it simply wasn’t worth the cost of producing low margin cars that cost more to meet those

tougher CAFE foot print fuel economy targets. Gov o, manufacturers and buyers were

all on the same page.

Exactly-not to mention that smaller cars have a harder time meeting crash standards also.

 

The 2024 Civic nearly the same size as a 2000 Accord

[Sherminator98]

9 hours ago, ANTAUS said:

But on a side matter, consumer buying habits.. (I think people buy more than they should or can afford), vehicle lifespans, people holding onto vehicles longer... I have friends buying their kids (on a teachers salary in Florida LOL) new vehicles...knowing her in HS where she made a 20 year old vehicle work back then... At what point does a market crash, because its not sustainable....?

 

The issue with used car pricing is the large chunk of vehicles that where removed from the roads about 15 years ago with Cash for Clunkers. Then add in manufactures not fleet dumping as much as they used to and the supply of used cars shrank without the demand doing so and it forced prices up.

 

My nephew just started to drive last year and a decent 4-5 year old car was 20K. I remember when I started driving, I got my 86 Escort GT from my dad in 1993 for $150 bucks and it didn't cause any heart ache with anyone and that car was like $9K brand new. 

 

[Rick73]

It will be interesting to see how cars built today will last 20 years due to the ever increasing cost of repairs.  And that assumes parts will even be available to keep them running.

Edited October 10, 2024 by Rick73

[Biker16]

12 hours ago, akirby said:

Car sales were dropping for years before any of them got cancelled.  But don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative.

 

You are missing the point.

I am not the only one saying cars are too expensive. 

Rising Auto Loan Delinquencies and High Monthly Payments

Americans Can No Longer Afford Their Cars

 

Why car prices are still so high — and why they are unlikely to fall anytime soon

 

Cars Are Expensive. Here’s Why and What You Can Do About It.

There are consequences to embracing a smaller car market.  

[Rick73]

12 hours ago, ANTAUS said:

But on a side matter, consumer buying habits.. (I think people buy more than they should or can afford), vehicle lifespans, people holding onto vehicles longer... I have friends buying their kids (on a teachers salary in Florida LOL) new vehicles...knowing her in HS where she made a 20 year old vehicle work back then... At what point does a market crash, because its not sustainable....?

Message above was meant as reply to yours.  I’m not sure how affordable cars will remain as they become older, perhaps making them difficult to justify as cheap transportation.

[Biker16]

6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

The real nail in the coffin was when the EPA sunk the boot into car fuel economy targets,

it simply wasn’t worth the cost of producing low margin cars that cost more to meet those

tougher CAFE foot print fuel economy targets. Gov o, manufacturers and buyers were

all on the same page.

 This is an underappreciated opinion.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/buying-a-car/people-spending-more-on-new-cars-but-prices-not-necessarily-rising-a3134608893/
 

Quote

 

Entry-level cars have been vanishing. In the past, automakers had to meet average fuel-economy standards set by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration for their entire fleet. To meet those standards, they sold fuel-efficient cars at little or no profit that offset the lower MPGs of larger SUVs and trucks. But in 2008 fuel-economy regulations were changed to focus on “footprint”—how well a model performs for its size—rather than the average for all the vehicles a company sells. That means automakers have less incentive to produce small cars and instead can focus on more-profitable SUVs and trucks.

“Automakers lobbied heavily and won changes to the rules that made it much easier to sell bigger and heavier vehicles in exchange for stronger overall standards,” says Chris Harto, senior policy counsel for Consumer Reports. “The end result is that while all vehicles have become a lot more efficient, there has been a rapid shift away from producing sedans and wagons to producing more SUVs and pickups.”

 

 

[akirby]

It still comes down to what buyers want.  Nobody is forcing Toyota buyers to buy more RAV4s over Corollas or Honda buyers to favor CRVs over Civics.

 

The Koreans have plenty of cheap cars for sale.  MFRs are simply giving buyers what they want.  Whether that’s affordable is on the buyer not the mfr.

[morgan20]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

MFRs are simply giving buyers what they want.  Whether that’s affordable is on the buyer not the mfr.

 

Yea, exactly. Looks like Ford wants the buyers that are willing to pay a little more for products that are more than something that just takes them from Point A to Point B. Those buyers have the potential to not only bring in more moolah for Ford, but also stay more loyal to Ford than the el-cheapo buyers

 

Common wisdom and empirical evidence suggest that it costs significantly less to retain an existing customer than it does to acquire a new one, making loyalty especially critical in times when corporate marketing budgets are scrutinized.

[akirby]

9 minutes ago, morgan20 said:

 

Yea, exactly. Looks like Ford wants the buyers that are willing to pay a little more for products that are more than something that just takes them from Point A to Point B. Those buyers have the potential to not only bring in more moolah for Ford, but also stay more loyal to Ford than the el-cheapo buyers

 

Common wisdom and empirical evidence suggest that it costs significantly less to retain an existing customer than it does to acquire a new one, making loyalty especially critical in times when corporate marketing budgets are scrutinized.

And I don’t want to hear how cheap entry level cars creates brand loyalty.  It doesn’t.  Those buyers will buy whatever is on sale at the time regardless of brand.

[Rick73]

7 hours ago, akirby said:

It still comes down to what buyers want.  Nobody is forcing Toyota buyers to buy more RAV4s over Corollas or Honda buyers to favor CRVs over Civics.

More yes, but manufacturers should not ignore that there are still plenty of both being purchased.  Civic and Corolla sales are pretty good even if CR-V and RAV4 do better.  Obviously many buyers want Civic/Corolla over CR-V/RAV4 for various reasons.

[akirby]

10 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

More yes, but manufacturers should not ignore that there are still plenty of both being purchased.  Civic and Corolla sales are pretty good even if CR-V and RAV4 do better.  Obviously many buyers want Civic/Corolla over CR-V/RAV4 for various reasons.

Not the point.

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, akirby said:

And I don’t want to hear how cheap entry level cars creates brand loyalty.  It doesn’t.  Those buyers will buy whatever is on sale at the time regardless of brand.

 Correct, most retail buyers prefer a well optioned vehicle or at least a lot of equipment supplied as standard.

 

Even daily rentals went away from strippers years ago because they listened to what customers wanted but also realised that vehicle residual values were better with a more retail version.

 

There are some who just want basic transportation but they most definitely don’t represent the majority of buyers.

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

More yes, but manufacturers should not ignore that there are still plenty of both being purchased.  Civic and Corolla sales are pretty good even if CR-V and RAV4 do better.  Obviously many buyers want Civic/Corolla over CR-V/RAV4 for various reasons.

Toyota has kept the door open with Camry sales, knowing that eventually, a significant number of those sales will migrate to RAV4.

 

Not every manufacturer can or should try to do that, there are only a few stand outs worth considering, the others should concentrate on what makes money.

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, Rick73 said:

More yes, but manufacturers should not ignore that there are still plenty of both being purchased.  Civic and Corolla sales are pretty good even if CR-V and RAV4 do better.  Obviously many buyers want Civic/Corolla over CR-V/RAV4 for various reasons.

But the maverick is a conquest champion. The most common vehicle traded in for a maverick is a Honda civic. 

[jpd80]

49 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

But the maverick is a conquest champion. The most common vehicle traded in for a maverick is a Honda civic. 

Just looking at the three way sales split between Escape Bronco Sport and Maverick, ford is capturing a lot of compact sales. Had they done a better job with Escape styling, the sales or pricing would be a lot better. 
 

How versatile is that C2 platform now, Ford can practically turn out almost whatever it wants from small to large mid sized vehicles. I guess that’s the point of Maverick, they saw an opportunity and developed a vehicle quickly. 

[Sherminator98]

21 hours ago, Biker16 said:

There are consequences to embracing a smaller car market.  

 

Having been alive for most of this and having someone working in the auto industry from 1982 till 2004, this chart is fucking useless...

 

The major dips are economic recessions/COVID and highs are boom periods economically. 

This doesn't prove your point at all. 

[morgan20]

17 hours ago, akirby said:

And I don’t want to hear how cheap entry level cars creates brand loyalty.  It doesn’t.  Those buyers will buy whatever is on sale at the time regardless of brand.

 

Yea, exactly.

 

Brand loyalty measures how often a household with a particular brand's vehicle returns to the same brand when they make their next new-vehicle purchase, which could be a replacement vehicle or an addition to the garage.

Ford brand loyalty for the 2022 calendar year was 58.6%. When the F-series models - the F-150, F-250 and F-350 - were stripped out, brand loyalty fell to 49.5%.

[Motorpsychology]

I don't know where I stand on exciting vs boring commodity vehicles. I would never have owned a Nissan Qube regardless of the interior volume, for instance. The 2025 Camry is supposed to be bold, exciting; but I'd never buy one, standard hybrid power or no.

With NHTSA, EPA, and IIHS standards, we've pretty much regulated style out of the equation. With few exceptions, 1965-1972 was the halcyon era of automotive style across all manufacturers, IMO. 

2025 Toyota Camry, 1971 Ford Torino

[DeluxeStang]

On 10/10/2024 at 7:38 AM, Rick73 said:

It will be interesting to see how cars built today will last 20 years due to the ever increasing cost of repairs.  And that assumes parts will even be available to keep them running.

To be fair, they said the exact thing in the 90s. I guarantee there were people with 1970s Ford pickups talking about how this new 90s f-150 with a 4.6 and fuel injection was gonna be super unreliable. Cars have gotten way more reliable over time. Ford used to be a joke back in the 70s and 80s, as well as every other American brand, or so my parents have said. Now, people are paying a premium for the Ford badge.