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Ford Puma Gen-E: Mustang Mach-E’s Little Brother With Up To 233 Miles Of Range


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28 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Just give us a better design, not some science project on wheels. Let's stop with the no grille, sea of blank metal look evs have, or the desire that designers have to push the a-pillar super far forward because there's no engine. It's like the lack of limitations EVs have provided has made designers forget how to make a good looking car. 

 

Well you do have a major limitation of having to compensate for the battery pack taking up space in the middle of the car-which isn't exactly trivial in a sedan. 

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1 hour ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

Well you do have a major limitation of having to compensate for the battery pack taking up space in the middle of the car-which isn't exactly trivial in a sedan. 


I think this was VW's Mistake with MEB, which both GM and Hyundai were able to avoid. 

I think many Automakers approached EV platforms the way they approached the Modular ICE platform with major issues as the technology and strategies matured. 


 

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1 hour ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

Well you do have a major limitation of having to compensate for the battery pack taking up space in the middle of the car-which isn't exactly trivial in a sedan. 


I just read the EV Boxster has the battery behind the driver rather than in the floor which will make it easier to add an ICE engine since that’s where the engine sits currently.

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1 hour ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

Well you do have a major limitation of having to compensate for the battery pack taking up space in the middle of the car-which isn't exactly trivial in a sedan. 

But modern battery packs tend to be smaller and thinner. You can also package some equipment under the hood even if it isn't ideal. 

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11 minutes ago, akirby said:


I just read the EV Boxster has the battery behind the driver rather than in the floor which will make it easier to add an ICE engine since that’s where the engine sits currently.

Brilliant move imo. I'd imagine that also keeps the weight distribution relatively comparable to an ICE boxster, so it will still feel and drive like enthusiasts expect from a boxster. 

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3 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Brilliant move imo. I'd imagine that also keeps the weight distribution relatively comparable to an ICE boxster, so it will still feel and drive like enthusiasts expect from a boxster. 


I suspect it had more to do with not wanting to raise the floor height, but a happy coincidence nonetheless.

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3 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

They got it right with the buzz, at least in terms of design. But yeah, their other EVs leave something to be desired visually. 

 I agree, it looks great.  

There were major technical compromises due to the Design of VW's MEB platform.

The major ones being:

Weight:  6,174lbs curb weight
Battery: The 86KWh battery, (91KWh Gross) vs EV9's 100KWh and Rivian's 140KWh 
Poor fast charging: 170Kw vs Ev9's 220Kw. 
User interface: The car needs buttons. 

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On 12/3/2024 at 9:10 AM, fuzzymoomoo said:

Seems to be an unpopular opinion around here, but I really don’t like the look of the Puma, especially the front end. 

 

It looks better in person, after seeing a few in the UK.

 

I don't really like this Mach E type nose and Ford badge placement, though.

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4 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

My guess is the mach-e nose was added because Ford wanted to make sure people knew this version of the puma was electric. But here's the dealio, brands seem to think that electric car buyers want their cars to look drastically different, most buyers don't. Just use ev tech to make the car look better, you can do things like pushing the wheels to the corners more, giving more sculpture to the hood because there are no engine clearance issues, etc.

 

Just give us a better design, not some science project on wheels. Let's stop with the no grille, sea of blank metal look evs have, or the desire that designers have to push the a-pillar super far forward because there's no engine. It's like the lack of limitations EVs have provided has made designers forget how to make a good looking car. 


Playing Devil’s Advocate, is it possible you have “better design” backwards because it’s what you got used to seeing?  What you think of as good aesthetics may be based on what is normal or more common, which with ICEVs over 100 years normally meant a grille for cooling, and A-pillars back due to long hood for long engines.  On the other hand, if BEVs don’t need a grille or long hood, why have one at all just to make the vehicle look like an ICEV?  Maybe a small grille can be added if needed for minimal cooling.  Given people have to accept that BEVs are actually different, why not also accept that they should look different?

 

Change just for the sake of change makes little sense to me, but when it comes to BEV appearance, maybe designers should start with a truly blank sheet and forget the last 100 years of ICE vehicles.

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25 minutes ago, Rick73 said:


Playing Devil’s Advocate, is it possible you have “better design” backwards because it’s what you got used to seeing?  What you think of as good aesthetics may be based on what is normal or more common, which with ICEVs over 100 years normally meant a grille for cooling, and A-pillars back due to long hood for long engines.  On the other hand, if BEVs don’t need a grille or long hood, why have one at all just to make the vehicle look like an ICEV?  Maybe a small grille can be added if needed for minimal cooling.  Given people have to accept that BEVs are actually different, why not also accept that they should look different?

 

Change just for the sake of change makes little sense to me, but when it comes to BEV appearance, maybe designers should start with a truly blank sheet and forget the last 100 years of ICE vehicles.

Because regardless of function, these blank front ends and monolith shapes just don't look good. 

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1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

It looks better in person, after seeing a few in the UK.

 

I don't really like this Mach E type nose and Ford badge placement, though.

 

35 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


That’s been par for the course with Ford design lately. For whatever reason they don’t look as good in pictures as they do in person. Mach-E is the biggest example of that I can think of. 

The s650 as well. It doesn't have the hard indents casting a shadow along the body side like the s550 does. So in a lot of pics and vids, the side of the s650 looks kinda flat, and unattractive. But in person, you see how muscular the body side actually is, it flares out A TON. Now if only they could do something to reduce the front and rear overhangs, and it would look perfect. 

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2 hours ago, akirby said:


I suspect it had more to do with not wanting to raise the floor height, but a happy coincidence nonetheless.


I found it interesting that when looking at Puma EV specs and comparing to ICE Puma, the overall height and also interior headroom were listed the same.  Makes me wonder how exactly the 43.6 kWh of battery capacity is situated. 

 

Related to your comment, I recall pictures of a 2-seat BEV sports car with battery in a “T” configuration with about half the battery capacity under a large tunnel between seats (below and forming console) and the rest down low mounted transversely just behind seats.  It reminded me a little of my Fiero GT that had fuel tank between seats under tall and wide console.  Instead of gas tank this new European BEV had battery.

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On 12/3/2024 at 11:24 AM, T-dubz said:

How in the world are the explorer and capri more expensive than the mach e? That makes zero sense.

 

 

 

This is why I feel pretty sure Ford won't be building any passenger vehicles in Europe by the end of the decade. Cheaper to import from Thailand, India, and Mexico given the low volumes that Ford is selling now days in Europe.

Edited by bzcat
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7 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

This is why I feel pretty sure Ford won't be building any passenger vehicles in Europe by the end of the decade. Cheaper to import from Thailand, India, and Mexico given the low volumes that Ford is selling now days in Europe.


Ford Europe manufacturing has always been expensive and inefficient.

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17 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Because regardless of function, these blank front ends and monolith shapes just don't look good. 


Perhaps I didn’t word my point well because I’m not suggesting that designers make the car uninteresting; only that new BEV-specific designs take advantage of not needing a large grille as is presently the case with ICE for engine cooling.  I trust designers can come up with new shapes that are appealing and maybe better because of it.  If done right I think it can look good.

 

In the past (way back before modern EVs) a few cars with air cooled engines faced a similar dilemma of not needing a front radiator for cooling, and the shapes designers came up with were definitely different for the period, though in my opinion not necessarily bad.  In addition to Beetle and 911, there were also original Fiat 500, Chevy Corvair, and many others now considered classics.  Because BEVs have so few limitations, I’d like to see designers knock it out of the park.

 

IMG_5213.thumb.jpeg.4aded62bab48653c4c76f882be2bf189.jpegIMG_5219.thumb.jpeg.3f8097f487c6c7b6f70af7426f268ec0.jpeg

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18 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Change just for the sake of change makes little sense to me, but when it comes to BEV appearance, maybe designers should start with a truly blank sheet and forget the last 100 years of ICE vehicles.

 

The problem is that automotive styling has been ingrained into people's mind to look like something they expect. What your talking about is starting to get into the "uncanny valley" or the shaved off eyebrow look-it looks similar but since it strays so much from the norm that it repulses people,

 

Then factor in that people who are biggest segment of buyers are typically older (30-40 plus) and aren't too big on huge changes, you'll have resistance to something that pushes the lines too much. 

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10 minutes ago, Rick73 said:


Perhaps I didn’t word my point well because I’m not suggesting that designers make the car uninteresting; only that new BEV-specific designs take advantage of not needing a large grille as is presently the case with ICE for engine cooling.  I trust designers can come up with new shapes that are appealing and maybe better because of it.  If done right I think it can look good.

 

In the past (way back before modern EVs) a few cars with air cooled engines faced a similar dilemma of not needing a front radiator for cooling, and the shapes designers came up with were definitely different for the period, though in my opinion not necessarily bad.  In addition to Beetle and 911, there were also original Fiat 500, Chevy Corvair, and many others now considered classics.  Because BEVs have so few limitations, I’d like to see designers knock it out of the park.

 

IMG_5213.thumb.jpeg.4aded62bab48653c4c76f882be2bf189.jpegIMG_5219.thumb.jpeg.3f8097f487c6c7b6f70af7426f268ec0.jpeg

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that some designers are going so wild now that they're less restricted that they've forgotten how to make a good looking car. They're chasing after quirky over attractive design features. 

 

Keep in mind, I was the person on this forum who suggested Ford should take styling inspiration from things like the Ford gt and graft it onto mainstream models because it would be good looking, and areo efficient, while standing out from the crowd, so I get it. 

 

Case in point, I have no idea what it's for, or even if it's for an upcoming product at all, but this Ford sketch is a perfect example of what I'd like to see on an areo EV crossover, sleek, but done in a visually striking way. 

IMG_20241122_111919.jpg

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35 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that some designers are going so wild now that they're less restricted that they've forgotten how to make a good looking car. They're chasing after quirky over attractive design features. 


Yes, I agree 100% though I’m not sure how designers can deal with buyers having such diverse tastes.  Using my preferences as an example, and admitting I’m not sure what you visualize as being “monolithic” (can only guess), I find the rounded and blunt front end of the Cybertruck ugly as can be, while a similar rounded and blunt front end of the Fiat 500 much more appealing by comparison to Tesla CT.  Not sure why it looks better to me but I expect everything just flows together while CT clashes.  I’m accounting for over half a century of progress. 😆 

 

Anyway, given a little time I think BEVs will look very different.  I would like to see it happen quickly though expect the general public needs more time to adapt.

 

IMG_5218.thumb.jpeg.68c4f192cb97cb31e0d7668d15f2078f.jpeg

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31 minutes ago, Rick73 said:


Yes, I agree 100% though I’m not sure how designers can deal with buyers having such diverse tastes.  Using my preferences as an example, and admitting I’m not sure what you visualize as being “monolithic” (can only guess), I find the rounded and blunt front end of the Cybertruck ugly as can be, while a similar rounded and blunt front end of the Fiat 500 much more appealing by comparison to Tesla CT.  Not sure why it looks better to me but I expect everything just flows together while CT clashes.  I’m accounting for over half a century of progress. 😆 

 

Anyway, given a little time I think BEVs will look very different.  I would like to see it happen quickly though expect the general public needs more time to adapt.

 

IMG_5218.thumb.jpeg.68c4f192cb97cb31e0d7668d15f2078f.jpeg

Sorry, meant to say mono volume, but that's just designs where it's like one big blob. Think of all those ride sharing concepts where it's just a box, or a blob with no real hood or trunk defining the shape, it's all just one shape blending together. The ID buzz is actually an example, but actually well executed. Most designs that go for that approach just feel life less to me. 

 

 

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12 hours ago, akirby said:


Ford Europe manufacturing has always been expensive and inefficient.

 

When the plants were running a full tilt, they were pretty efficient. Even as recent as 5 years ago, Valencia was considered the most productive plant for Ford worldwide.

 

Labor costs were always high in Germany and much lower in Spain and Romania but Ford is not unique amongst car producers in Europe. The big difference is US accounting rules regarding how companies have to account for pension costs. US GAAP requires US companies to report pension expense when the employee earns the benefit. Non-US companies using IFRS accounting rules do not have this problem as they can report pension expense when they are paid. 

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On 12/4/2024 at 1:27 AM, DeluxeStang said:

Well, at 29k, a reasonable price for such an EV, in a market that claims to want small urban EVs, this is gonna be the ultimate test. If it sells, then Ford is golden. If it struggles, that's a worrying sign for Ford's other upcoming affordable small EVs. 

Based on its pricing, it will go directly against the popular £29,495 (Focus-sized) rear-drive MG4 Long Range.
2023-mg-mg4-ev-in-uk-specification-exter
Power
MG4 Long Range: 200hp, 184 lb-ft
Ford Puma Gen-E: 166hp, 214 lb-ft

Range 
MG4 Long Range: 281 miles
Ford Puma Gen-E: 233 miles

Edited by AM222
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